Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2018 0:04:27 GMT
I agree but I am saying this type of thing is a double edged sword. A white celebrity insults a Black or (Whatever race she was) politician and her career ends, yet every day many cops in the USA who are mostly White or white skinned Hispanics (Cubans, Argentinians etc) arrest and harass Black men for so called crimes that most people would not shake a stick at.
It seems in America it is elitism more than racism, insulting a member of the Black Elite like a Politician, Leader, Preacher or a rapper/basketballer is wrong and evil - Yet if a cop shoots or arrests a Poor or Unknown Black man, that is okay - I mean how many cops have been actually properly punished for shooting innocent black civilians for no reason?
Even the news there pays less heed to Black or Hispanic people unless they are famous - like a child disappearing if her name is Catherine, they will pay attention but if the second name is like Hernandez they don't care, or if the child's surname is Davis or White, but the first name is Laquisha or Ebonee - they also don't care. Also what about the surveys that proved if your name was like Kenya, Jamal, Shaniqua or Ladarius on your CV, you were less likely to get called back.
We roast Roseanne for judging a Black Politician, yet we all are guilty of laughing at ghetto shit like Sharkisha, Antoine Dodson and Sweet Brown.
|
|
|
Post by jaywonder on Jun 8, 2018 2:38:11 GMT
On the other side of the coin aazzaabb's comment about being Irish is true. Everytime some one insults or even questions the Black Race, they get fired and hounded through the media. Yet if a white person gets insulted nothing happens. Blacks will use the "Slavery/Jim Crow" argument everytime, which is fine because that stuff did happen and it was reprehensible. But I also have some significant amount of Irish ancestry in me and I know for a fact they were the butt of jokes as drunks, not very bright, fat, violent and sexually immoral people obsessed with potatoes and beer. In the 1800s many poor Irish fled their homeland after the Potato Famine (1845 - 49 An Gorta Morr) and went to the USA, Australia and NZ amongst every countries. They were mainly run by a British (Namely English Anglican) elite and as Celtic and Roman Catholic they were seen as the underclass good old for manual labour and servitude. Open discrimination against Irish Catholics was common until recently and we have only had respect since the Celtic Tiger miracle of the 1990s. Yet stereotypes of dumb fat Irishmen still abound (Peter Griffin, Mike from Mike and Molly) and we are still seen as violent, drunk, fat and likely to be bigotted and racist, yet Ireland is multicultural and lacks all the issues of the rest of the EU. Yet jokes about the latest Irish invention, how dumb the Irish are, leprechauns, beer and clovers do not make me angry enough to start rioting and a group called ILM (Irish Lives Matter) and I don't see Bridget Shannon O'Malley place through the ghetto. That would make people laugh at us and tell us how ridiculous we are being, yet BLM no one laughs and people get angry. Yet my Maori side, we are known for claiming land, being violent, getting benefits and being in prison or obsessed with Methamphetamine and Dope. Maoris forever scream racism and have a board where they receive money for their stolen land and their disadvantage, yet I am yet to hear of an Irishman called Patrick O'Kelly complain about the way his ancetsors were treated in 1877 when they were banned from school for not being Protestant or having relief denied to them in 1847 in County Limmerick as they refused to become Anglican. Maybe all our angry sistas and black militants may want to know that some million Irish died from starving to death in the potato famine in 1848 yet not one slave starved to death as their owners knew hungry slaves did not work, but white Irishmen were worth nothing alive to their white English Landlords, as late as 1899 there were Irish living as serfs on estates held by absent English landlords high off the proceeds of Celtic labour, yet we embrace our English friends (MattyJam) like brothers now. Blacks and every other angry minority group of colour need to move on and forget the past. Roseanne opened her mouth and sdaid some dumb shit, yet had this woman been white, it would not made a mention, yet this woman who looks more Mexican or Mulatto than black gets all hot under the collar and heads roll again. No....just NO 1. There have been frustration from the respective communities in the US how jokes about Irish, Italians, and Germans are insensitive. I shouldn't have to point this out but I will, but black people and other communities of color at least here in the US aren't the ones making the jokes, it's white people, and it's still fucked up when it happens. It's happening for years for centuries and the xenophobia towards those communities still exists. 2. You do understand that Black Lives Matters or groups such as the Black Panther Party was launched NOT because of jokes, but job and housing discrimination, police brutality, and the lack of equality towards people of color. 3. You can talk all about how "blacks and every other angry minority group" can move on and forget the past, but when the bullshit is still happening and the issues of the past is still having a major effect on the present, simply moving on and forgetting isn't an option. If anything, we need to confront it all, learn why and how we got here and work on getting better. "Forgetting" and ignoring does absolutely nothing but make the problem worse.
|
|
|
Post by jaywonder on Jun 8, 2018 3:03:16 GMT
In summary.... lol
We as a society need to confront racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and all forms of bigotry head on.
Not confronting it is why we still have these issues. It's why gay, bisexual, and trans people are still struggling in society. It's why people of color and origins are still have difficulties and are constantly being harassed and stereotyped. It's why there are hundreds of kids sitting in deportation camps here in the US. It's why so many black and latino kids are in the prison system on trumped up charges. It's why queer kids are still finding themselves homeless and feeling there is no hope
Only way things can get better and change can happen if we confront the problems.
|
|
|
Post by jaywonder on Jun 8, 2018 3:08:15 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2018 3:13:38 GMT
Once again you miss the point, I know all about Jim crow and Slavery and the de jure racism of the rpe 1965 era, but today's racism is more soft and official in your face racism is distasteful. Cases of Police brutality and racism happen, but now people at least get angry about it and companies like Starbucks pay lip service to it. In the 50s no one cared if they were racist to a black person or some shop pissed them off.
The fact remains and I wish you read all I am saying, not just one post - that it is only famous people of any colour that get news and results, had Roseanne said something like "All Black men are thugs" there would have been less outrage by the white community but BLM and Civil rights people would go nuts.
Also some of the damage is caused by certain Black people themselves. Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, rappers, pimppreachers, welfare queens and shit hoppers along with reality tv stars like the basketballer housewives have a lot to answer for. The whites find it hard to respect many blacks when the only culture they see on tv is foul mouthed cretins grunting about bitches, drugs, money and gangs in so called shit hop culture. Plus when you have stories of Black women tearing up shops because their food stamp card declined and kids with names like Shaniqua, Jamaquavious and Lil Alize and Kognak and Youtube going viral with stuff like Sharkisha, Anatole Dobson and all these other people who coon it up for 15 seconds of fame.
The difference is that most Irish/Germans/Italians do not do that, we don't generally promote bufoonish lifestyles through ridiculous musical culture. Blame hip hop not Black people or White racism. The Black people who got the civil rights in the 1960s were dignified and stoic, non violent and proved they were worthy of every privilege, but BLM and Black Panthers were just terrorists, most black people reject BLM as it has gone too far.
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Jun 8, 2018 3:29:52 GMT
The immediate catalyist for the Black Lives Matter's movement was policemen shooting and killing unarmed black people, including kids left and right. To say that the Irish had it just as bad because they had jokes and racial stereotypes against them is just so wrong. I am sorry but no other race/nationality had it as bad as black people and Native Indians in the USA. They have every reason to be angry.
Guess what? Racial stereotypes exist in all shapes or forms - and even within a race national stereotypes exist. There is hate against Eastern European guest workers in Britain too and they are white. I am Eastern European but I can distinguish between that and black people being killed by the police in the USA with no good reason and I don't consider it the same level of victimhood. It's a different level of racism and I am not sure why some white people have such a difficult time to acknowledge that some minorities do have it worse than they do.
|
|
|
Post by jaywonder on Jun 8, 2018 3:34:15 GMT
Once again you miss the point, I know all about Jim crow and Slavery and the de jure racism of the rpe 1965 era, but today's racism is more soft and official in your face racism is distasteful. Cases of Police brutality and racism happen, but now people at least get angry about it and companies like Starbucks pay lip service to it. In the 50s no one cared if they were racist to a black person or some shop pissed them off. The fact remains and I wish you read all I am saying, not just one post - that it is only famous people of any colour that get news and results, had Roseanne said something like "All Black men are thugs" there would have been less outrage by the white community but BLM and Civil rights people would go nuts. Also some of the damage is caused by certain Black people themselves. Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, rappers, pimppreachers, welfare queens and shit hoppers along with reality tv stars like the basketballer housewives have a lot to answer for. The whites find it hard to respect many blacks when the only culture they see on tv is foul mouthed cretins grunting about bitches, drugs, money and gangs in so called shit hop culture. Plus when you have stories of Black women tearing up shops because their food stamp card declined and kids with names like Shaniqua, Jamaquavious and Lil Alize and Kognak and Youtube going viral with stuff like Sharkisha, Anatole Dobson and all these other people who coon it up for 15 seconds of fame.
The difference is that most Irish/Germans/Italians do not do that, we don't generally promote bufoonish lifestyles through ridiculous musical culture. Blame hip hop not Black people or White racism. The Black people who got the civil rights in the 1960s were dignified and stoic, non violent and proved they were worthy of every privilege, but BLM and Black Panthers were just terrorists, most black people reject BLM as it has gone too far.Black Panthers were NOT terrorists. Black Panthers helped empower the black community and provided assistance to the community such as the free breakfast program, starting free health clinics, launching a non profit org for senior citizens. There's morons in every organization that makes them look bad, but the core and mission atlantablackstar.com/2015/03/26/8-black-panther-party-programs-that-were-more-empowering-than-federal-government-programs/3/I'm a black man from Oakland California, where BPP was launched. The viewpoint of the organization being terrorists was started by J Edgar Hoover, one of the most dangerous pieces of shit in the history of American government. triumph, I'm not gonna go the route of people on prince.org did by calling you racist because I don't feel you are, but seriously man, a lot of things you say come off TERRIBLY and incredibly ignorant. Yes, damage by reality shows and hip hop can't be denied but those attitudes existed far before those forms existed. Those things help reinforce those stereotypes but not the cause. Hell, honestly, some people feel Roseanne helped reinforce the attitude of "American poor white trash" and I remember a lot of people disliked it when it was at its peak of popularity
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Jun 8, 2018 3:52:36 GMT
Also some of the damage is caused by certain Black people themselves. Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, rappers, pimppreachers, welfare queens and shit hoppers along with reality tv stars like the basketballer housewives have a lot to answer for. The whites find it hard to respect many blacks when the only culture they see on tv is foul mouthed cretins grunting about bitches, drugs, money and gangs in so called shit hop culture. Plus when you have stories of Black women tearing up shops because their food stamp card declined and kids with names like Shaniqua, Jamaquavious and Lil Alize and Kognak and Youtube going viral with stuff like Sharkisha, Anatole Dobson and all these other people who coon it up for 15 seconds of fame. Do you realize what is a "respectable" name in a society is only a matter of custom? And because the USA was mainly a white dominated country, of course it is "white names" that are dominant and considered "respectable". That doesn't mean it is right and that it cannot change. Or that "black names" are wrong or people with such names cannot and shouldn't be respected. Why the hell are you bothered by "black names" in particular and why not, say, by the fact that often white people in America give male names to females and vica versa? Or are Muslims allowed to name their kids Muhammad, Ali, Leila, but black people aren't allowed to give theirs "black names"? How does it work that we should respect one culture for their names but not another? Or that one race's names should be considered more "respectable" than another's, just because it has been the dominant culture for centuries? Do you realize that most "acceptable" Western names that are accepted today are of Hebrew, Greek or Latin origin and do mean something in Hebrew/Greek/Latin? "Michael" for example means "who is like God?" in Hebrew. And probably when someone first came up with them they were just as unique and strange than the black names that so bother you now. Let them have their culture and their names. That doesn't mean any person disrespectable, nor does it justify any racism against them. As for the very extreme crazy names like "Youtube", that's not a black thing. I have seen plenty of white people giving or trying to give such crazy names to their kids as well. As for the individual funny or outrageous individuals that you brought up "Black women tearing up shops", Antione Dobson etc. Do you realize you can find just as many crazy or dumb individuals among white people? How about these people? Youtube is full of videos of "angry white people" too. It's not a black thing.
|
|
|
Post by jaywonder on Jun 8, 2018 3:56:27 GMT
The immediate catalyist for the Black Lives Matter's movement was policemen shooting and killing unarmed black people, including kids left and right. To say that the Irish had it just as bad because they had jokes and racial stereotypes against them is just so wrong. I am sorry but no other race/nationality had it as bad as black people and Native Indians in the USA. They have every reason to be angry. Guess what? Racial stereotypes exist in all shapes or forms - and even within a race national stereotypes exist. There is hate against Eastern European guest workers in Britain too and they are white. I am Eastern European but I can distinguish between that and black people being killed by the police in the USA with no good reason and I don't consider it the same level of victimhood. It's a different level of racism and I am not sure why some white people have such a difficult time to acknowledge that some minorities do have it worse than they do. Yes It shouldn't even be a dick measuring contest when it comes to bigotry. The Irish and Italians had it terrible in the US due to being immigrants. People here still think of Nazis when Germany is brought up. The US has a long storied history of bigotry. It's shameful to go through all of it.... The genocide of Native Americans, slavery and jim crow, homophobia, the immediate hatred for those from the Middle East after 9/11, Japanese internment camps, the list goes on and on....
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Jun 8, 2018 4:24:06 GMT
The immediate catalyist for the Black Lives Matter's movement was policemen shooting and killing unarmed black people, including kids left and right. To say that the Irish had it just as bad because they had jokes and racial stereotypes against them is just so wrong. I am sorry but no other race/nationality had it as bad as black people and Native Indians in the USA. They have every reason to be angry. Guess what? Racial stereotypes exist in all shapes or forms - and even within a race national stereotypes exist. There is hate against Eastern European guest workers in Britain too and they are white. I am Eastern European but I can distinguish between that and black people being killed by the police in the USA with no good reason and I don't consider it the same level of victimhood. It's a different level of racism and I am not sure why some white people have such a difficult time to acknowledge that some minorities do have it worse than they do. Yes It shouldn't even be a dick measuring contest when it comes to bigotry. The Irish and Italians had it terrible in the US due to being immigrants. People here still think of Nazis when Germany is brought up. The US has a long storied history of bigotry. It's shameful to go through all of it.... The genocide of Native Americans, slavery and jim crow, homophobia, the immediate hatred for those from the Middle East after 9/11, Japanese internment camps, the list goes on and on.... To be honest, racial and national stereotypes exist everywhere. Ayaan Hirshi Ali said once "everyone is racist" and I agree with her - to a certain extent everyone is. And yes, including black people against white people. One should only read LSA to find examples of black racism against white people. Tribalism and an "us" vs. "them" mentality IMO is historically coded in humans and this mentality is often expressed along racial/national lines. The French have their stereotypes about the British and vica versa, the British have their stereotypes about the Germans and vica versa and so on. So you have that even within a race. And when large numbers of a people immigrate to another country, it is common that they would be discriminated against. Everyone needs to work on it, I guess. And it is not opression olympics, but I do find it strange that whenever a case of racism against black people is being discussed, some people want to deflect and say "white people have been discriminated against too, so black people should just get over it". I don't think so. Even historically black people had it worse in the USA with slavery and everything than Irish or Italian people - even if these too were considered "below" Anglo-Saxons. But they were considered "above" black people. Moreover, black people still, until today face a lot more discrimination than Irish/Italian people. So why are we even drawing this parallel as if they are similar situations when they are not?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2018 6:40:21 GMT
I think I will bow out here, as smooth waters are starting to become choppy and I apologise for offending anyone.
As for names, I have no problem with the African and Islamic ones - but its the made up ones with la, sha, ka, key in them and the suffix niqua, nique or isha. Also the people who name their kids after cars, champagne, jewellery, labels and fancy alcohol.
But I agree that Black people have it very hard in America and stand by my comments that Black people shot by cops deserve retribution and the cops need to be nailed to the damn wall over it. The racism got worse under Obama and worse still under Trump as well. I feel America is going backwards rather than forwards. One day, Trump will go and people will start to come right.
|
|
|
Post by bedroom on Jun 11, 2018 14:57:01 GMT
I think the MJ-eating-popcorn gif was invented for this thread.
|
|
|
Post by HIStoric on Jun 11, 2018 15:08:12 GMT
I think the MJ-eating-popcorn gif was invented for this thread. He truly was ahead of his time.
|
|
|
Post by bedroom on Jun 11, 2018 15:41:39 GMT
I think the MJ-eating-popcorn gif was invented for this thread. He truly was ahead of his time. #HeKnew
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2018 12:08:24 GMT
Michael had a direct link to the future, in the 80s he saw all these young children loving his music and could see that by the late 2010s, they would all be balding, overweight 40 somethings talking all sorts of shit in his name on this new form of chatting between those computers (The oversize TV things that sit on desks).
He would be shaking his head and wondering why race is still such a big issue and how the fuck someone like Donald Trump could be the President, especially after one of the best presidents ever and the only Black man to have that title.
He would be flattered that 35 years later, the same children were still fans in their middle age and critics were acclaiming Thriller as the greatest album ever made still.
|
|