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Post by aazzaabb on Nov 22, 2021 16:00:18 GMT
Peter Jackson had 4 years on Get Back so I’m giving Taj another year. If you feel the time has past it shouldn’t bother you one way or another. If you’ve invested time, money and your heart then we need to exercise patience and understanding.
The thing is, is that this cycle of allegations will resurface again and again every decade or so until it’s killed like a cancer. Try to keep in mind we’re doing something for Michael Jackson here and if he was alive I’m sure he would be overwhelmed and beyond grateful.
I don’t mean to lecture anyone but just to put another point of view on it. If it’s done right and is as good as what he’s promising then it will have been worth it. If it isn’t then we’ll cross that bridge.
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Post by Vega on Nov 22, 2021 16:15:20 GMT
I've been following this on the backburner for some time. I've noticed that not that many fans who donated are actually that up in arms about where there money is going? It's not a Randy/MJ Source situation quite yet, and people seem more than willing to give Taj the benefit of the doubt so far.
I wonder if that will change the longer this gets drawn out? Or is the new generation of fans just easier to dupe?
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Post by aazzaabb on Nov 22, 2021 16:20:22 GMT
I've been following this on the backburner for some time. I've noticed that not that many fans who donated are actually that up in arms about where there money is going? It's not a Randy/MJ Source situation quite yet, and people seem more than willing to give Taj the benefit of the doubt so far. I wonder if that will change the longer this gets drawn out? Or is the new generation of fans just easier to dupe?Can you expand on this?
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Post by WildStyle on Nov 22, 2021 16:26:14 GMT
Peter Jackson had 4 years on Get Back so I’m giving Taj another year. If you feel the time has past it shouldn’t bother you one way or another. If you’ve invested time, money and your heart then we need to exercise patience and understanding. The thing is, is that this cycle of allegations will resurface again and again every decade or so until it’s killed like a cancer. Try to keep in mind we’re doing something for Michael Jackson here and if he was alive I’m sure he would be overwhelmed and beyond grateful. I don’t mean to lecture anyone but just to put another point of view on it. If it’s done right and is as good as what he’s promising then it will have been worth it. If it isn’t then we’ll cross that bridge. Peter Jackson had to comb through 60 hours of footage, restore the film and manually sync all the audio to the video. I just don't think Taj has the drive to do the work and I think he's lying to himself more than anyone else. Before covid hit he had months to work on it and instead was spending time watching movies and doing Film Family. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I think he's a daydreamer.
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Post by aazzaabb on Nov 22, 2021 16:37:03 GMT
Peter Jackson had 4 years on Get Back so I’m giving Taj another year. If you feel the time has past it shouldn’t bother you one way or another. If you’ve invested time, money and your heart then we need to exercise patience and understanding. The thing is, is that this cycle of allegations will resurface again and again every decade or so until it’s killed like a cancer. Try to keep in mind we’re doing something for Michael Jackson here and if he was alive I’m sure he would be overwhelmed and beyond grateful. I don’t mean to lecture anyone but just to put another point of view on it. If it’s done right and is as good as what he’s promising then it will have been worth it. If it isn’t then we’ll cross that bridge. Peter Jackson had to comb through 60 hours of footage, restore the film and manually sync all the audio to the video. I just don't think Taj has the drive to do the work and I think he's lying to himself more than anyone else. Before covid hit he had months to work on it and instead was spending time watching movies and doing Film Family. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I think he's a daydreamer. Well yes, but Peter Jackson also had an editor and sat on a couch for 4 years watching Beatles footage, with the backing of Apple and I would imagine a fairly decent budget. What was supposed to be a 3 hour theatrical release was expanded to a 3 part 2 hour per episode series. The point is he delayed it with the amount of resources and money available to him. Is putting MJ’s checkered past right an easier task? I somehow doubt it. Taj does not have the clout that a Peter Jackson has. As another example, MJ delayed the Invincible album and again, with that budget and those resources it’s baffling. Perhaps Taj is naive in what he thinks he can achieve. It’s possible. But more prominent people with gastrointestinal budgets and resources have also delayed.
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Post by Vega on Nov 22, 2021 16:37:12 GMT
I've been following this on the backburner for some time. I've noticed that not that many fans who donated are actually that up in arms about where there money is going? It's not a Randy/MJ Source situation quite yet, and people seem more than willing to give Taj the benefit of the doubt so far. I wonder if that will change the longer this gets drawn out? Or is the new generation of fans just easier to dupe?Can you expand on this? I'm pretty sure if this happened ten years ago Taj's live streams would be getting bombarded with "where's our money" and the like by now. The only people I see inquiring are oldheads on forums like this.
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Post by aazzaabb on Nov 22, 2021 16:42:32 GMT
Another thing that baffles me is that fans give MJ’s estate a pass at every turn, yet their the most successful estate in the history of estates if all of these wonderful statistics are to be believed. Yet Taj is written off in a very blasé way too. Taj was the one defending MJ when things were horrendous. He was the one who dealt with people like Kay Burley on the news. He didn’t always come across as Martin Luther King but the lad put himself out there. I didn’t see Branca & Co anywhere until things began to simmer. But that seems to be their form anyway.
Where was Branca?? Ah that’s right> driving his Tesla around Vegas and LA. But hey, fuck Taj right?! Taj is taking too long.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2021 20:19:44 GMT
Another thing that baffles me is that fans give MJ’s estate a pass at every turn, yet their the most successful estate in the history of estates if all of these wonderful statistics are to be believed. Yet Taj is written off in a very blasé way too. Taj was the one defending MJ when things were horrendous. He was the one who dealt with people like Kay Burley on the news. He didn’t always come across as Martin Luther King but the lad put himself out there. I didn’t see Branca & Co anywhere until things began to simmer. But that seems to be their form anyway. Where was Branca?? Ah that’s right> driving his Tesla around Vegas and LA. But hey, fuck Taj right?! Taj is taking too long. Who here is doing that though, ever? I don't think anyone critical of Taj here has not been way more critical of the Estate? How many threads have covered the Estate and how unhappy people are about them? There's one thread dedicated to Taj and his documentary so this is the best place to vent. As I say, I hope I'm proven wrong but when he came out with those chapter titles it completely took all the wind out of the sails for me. Him citing the planning of a child's party though I find absolutely hilarious.
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Post by aazzaabb on Nov 22, 2021 23:44:53 GMT
Another thing that baffles me is that fans give MJ’s estate a pass at every turn, yet their the most successful estate in the history of estates if all of these wonderful statistics are to be believed. Yet Taj is written off in a very blasé way too. Taj was the one defending MJ when things were horrendous. He was the one who dealt with people like Kay Burley on the news. He didn’t always come across as Martin Luther King but the lad put himself out there. I didn’t see Branca & Co anywhere until things began to simmer. But that seems to be their form anyway. Where was Branca?? Ah that’s right> driving his Tesla around Vegas and LA. But hey, fuck Taj right?! Taj is taking too long. Who here is doing that though, ever? I don't think anyone critical of Taj here has not been way more critical of the Estate? How many threads have covered the Estate and how unhappy people are about them? There's one thread dedicated to Taj and his documentary so this is the best place to vent. As I say, I hope I'm proven wrong but when he came out with those chapter titles it completely took all the wind out of the sails for me. Him citing the planning of a child's party though I find absolutely hilarious. I just feel that Taj is being dismissed in a passive way that undermines the weight of what he’s attempting to do. Is he failing/Will he fail? I hope not. I’ll give him another year and allow him the benefit of the doubt because I feel he’s earned it to a certain extent. He’s been through a fair bit in his personal life and perhaps people could be slightly more understanding of that. Projects are delayed all the time. This one is quite important so it needs to be perfect. If it’s anything less it will be an instant fail. And at the same time the estate will be lauded -again, in this sort of passive way- for Dangerous re-entering the billboard charts because they reissued the album in a different colour. And what I find absolutely hilarious is that Branca will be zooming around in one of his many high end sports cars, dripping in MJ money and lapping up any attached glory, being hailed and celebrated as some sort of genius as though he’s this incredible renaissance man.
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Post by WildStyle on Nov 23, 2021 0:36:41 GMT
aazzaabb, the estate is pretty much universally loathed on this board lol. I've been calling for their heads (figuratively) since 2010.
Has Taj interviewed anybody other than T-Mez in 2 years? The criticism of him is pretty light. I'm not even calling him a scam artist and I donated money to him. I just don't think he has the work ethic. He calls himself a director but has never completed a single project.
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Post by aazzaabb on Nov 23, 2021 1:28:44 GMT
aazzaabb, the estate is pretty much universally loathed on this board lol. I've been calling for their heads (figuratively) since 2010. Has Taj interviewed anybody other than T-Mez in 2 years? The criticism of him is pretty light. I'm not even calling him a scam artist and I donated money to him. I just don't think he has the work ethic. He calls himself a director but has never completed a single project. Honestly mate, I’m past caring. And I don’t mean that in a snide way towards you or anyone here. MJ will probably never be completely exonerated in the eyes of the public in our lifetime and I’ve just got to except that. It ain’t happening any time soon and I’m probably kidding myself if I think Taj is going to change anything. MJ’s estate will never be what many of us would like it to be and again I’ve just got to except things as they are. I think what grates on me most is that by being a fan I’m forced to face a situation and estate I have nothing in common with. No shared goals. The new musical in New York I just couldn’t give a flying fuck about. It means nothing to me. A red vinyl of an album I own 5, 6 different ways is also meaningless to me. I know I know….. I should be celebrating what MJ left us and just be grateful at all I got to experience the great years, and anything extra is a bonus etc. And I do. But I’ve just got to let go of this illusion I get caught up in. No Victory, Bad or Dangerous tour on film. No short films remastered in 4K. No Elvis/Beatles/Prince type box sets ever coming. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Nope. Not happening. Not possible. But MJ is still thriving despite all. So just be happy. Bored? I don’t understand how you can be bored?? With all he left us?!! His numbers are rising. He’s being played on the radio. But there’s just a big fat emptiness that goes with a part of this since LN. Leaving Neverland 2 will probably be due soon. And irrelevant of facts or actual sense the media will do their thing of course. The estate will say nothing. Do nothing. Think nothing and continue nothing.
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Post by WildStyle on Nov 23, 2021 1:57:58 GMT
aazzaabb, the estate is pretty much universally loathed on this board lol. I've been calling for their heads (figuratively) since 2010. Has Taj interviewed anybody other than T-Mez in 2 years? The criticism of him is pretty light. I'm not even calling him a scam artist and I donated money to him. I just don't think he has the work ethic. He calls himself a director but has never completed a single project. Honestly mate, I’m past caring. And I don’t mean that in a snide way towards you or anyone here. MJ will probably never be completely exonerated in the eyes of the public in our lifetime and I’ve just got to except that. It ain’t happening any time soon and I’m probably kidding myself if I think Taj is going to change anything. MJ’s estate will never be what many of us would like it to be and again I’ve just got to except things as they are. I think what grates on me most is that by being a fan I’m forced to face a situation and estate I have nothing in common with. No shared goals. The new musical in New York I just couldn’t give a flying fuck about. It means nothing to me. A red vinyl of an album I own 5, 6 different ways is also meaningless to me. I know I know….. I should be celebrating what MJ left us and just be grateful at all I got to experience the great years, and anything extra is a bonus etc. And I do. But I’ve just got to let go of this illusion I get caught up in. No Victory, Bad or Dangerous tour on film. No short films remastered in 4K. No Elvis/Beatles/Prince type box sets ever coming. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Nope. Not happening. Not possible. But MJ is still thriving despite all. So just be happy. Bored? I don’t understand how you can be bored?? With all he left us?!! His numbers are rising. He’s being played on the radio. But there’s just a big fat emptiness that goes with a part of this since LN. Leaving Neverland 2 will probably be due soon. And irrelevant of facts or actual sense the media will do their thing of course. The estate will say nothing. Do nothing. Think nothing and continue nothing. Haha, trust me I'm right there with you with your frustration. It is crappy being an MJ fan today. That's not a slight on Michael. That's just what it is. It is boring. You can only discuss the same things so many times. Maybe it's ok for younger fans listening to Thriller for the 50th time, but I've heard that albums thousands of times. I've heard all of his albums thousands of times. I love them, but I don't listen to them all that often anymore. Unfortunately there is nothing we can do. Michael's name will only be cleared if Jordan comes forward and says that he lied. Nobody is interested in doing investigative work on the cases other than fans. Fans will never be taken seriously because of perceived bias. We wish it was different, but nothing seems like it's going to change. The estate will continue to suck. Michael's life's work will continue to collect dust in a vault or be lost in the ether. It sucks. Especially for longtime fans. No doubt about it.
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Post by respect77 on Nov 23, 2021 4:34:39 GMT
This is going to be a bit of soap box material and not even about Taj, but a reaction to the above posts, so please deal with me.
I think whether someone chooses to always harp on what's negative in being an MJ fan is inevitably going to feel frustrated and feel that being an MJ fan sucks. Of course, there are hardships and genuine things to be frustrated over (and probably a lot more than in any other fandom), but I feel the "doom and gloom" mood some fans drive themselves into is often self inflicted. I mean, yeah LN and the allegations is a massive trauma for all of us. We need to keep addressing it from time to time. Yes, I too envy some of the projects other Estates are doing for their artist and the general care and love they handle their artist's work, while I too voice my frustration about the Estate not really caring about MJ's. But overall my experience of being an MJ fan isn't that it sucks. I don't even consider myself a particularly optimistic/"think positive" type of person, but I think there are a lot of things to be happy about as an MJ fan. The way his legacy keeps up despite of everything. Sure it would be great to hear unreleased material but that's never something that actually keeps up an artist's legacy. It's the work that they left behind while they were alive that does that. And MJ is doing extremely well in that. Maybe it's a double edge sword because that's what makes the Estate too comfortable in doing nothing as well, while other Estates need to work their ass off to even get their artist charting sometimes. I can understand if you are bored with listening to the same old MJ material and want something new, but to be honest while the outtakes on Bad 25 are fun and that was arguably a good project, something in the direction that hard core fans would want, but I still listen to the original Bad tracks more. My point is with that, again, that whatever gets released posthumously, at the end of the day it's the original material that defines an artist's legacy and that we'll keep coming back to. And I'm content with that legacy. I don't feel empty about it just because we don't get posthumous material. And I don't feel like I need to be constantly kept excited with "new" things to have fun as an MJ fan. I accepted the fact that MJ is dead and there won't be anything REALLY new from him any more. The release of unreleased material that an artist left behind can certainly be lots of fun and keep the hard core fandom entertained. And don't get me wrong, I certainly hope we will get some more in that regard. But my fun in being an MJ fan isn't really tied to that.
And my bigger point is a bit philosophical, I guess: a lot of how we feel is decided in our own head. Despite certain hardships I personally don't feel that being an MJ fan sucks.
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Post by Russg on Nov 23, 2021 7:27:20 GMT
This is going to be a bit of soap box material and not even about Taj, but a reaction to the above posts, so please deal with me. I think whether someone chooses to always harp on what's negative in being an MJ fan is inevitably going to feel frustrated and feel that being an MJ fan sucks. Of course, there are hardships and genuine things to be frustrated over (and probably a lot more than in any other fandom), but I feel the "doom and gloom" mood some fans drive themselves into is often self inflicted. I mean, yeah LN and the allegations is a massive trauma for all of us. We need to keep addressing it from time to time. Yes, I too envy some of the projects other Estates are doing for their artist and the general care and love they handle their artist's work, while I too voice my frustration about the Estate not really caring about MJ's. But overall my experience of being an MJ fan isn't that it sucks. I don't even consider myself a particularly optimistic/"think positive" type of person, but I think there are a lot of things to be happy about as an MJ fan. The way his legacy keeps up despite of everything. Sure it would be great to hear unreleased material but that's never something that actually keeps up an artist's legacy. It's the work that they left behind while they were alive that does that. And MJ is doing extremely well in that. Maybe it's a double edge sword because that's what makes the Estate too comfortable in doing nothing as well, while other Estates need to work their ass off to even get their artist charting sometimes. I can understand if you are bored with listening to the same old MJ material and want something new, but to be honest while the outtakes on Bad 25 are fun and that was arguably a good project, something in the direction that hard core fans would want, but I still listen to the original Bad tracks more. My point is with that, again, that whatever gets released posthumously, at the end of the day it's the original material that defines an artist's legacy and that we'll keep coming back to. And I'm content with that legacy. I don't feel empty about it just because we don't get posthumous material. And I don't feel like I need to be constantly kept excited with "new" things to have fun as an MJ fan. I accepted the fact that MJ is dead and there won't be anything REALLY new from him any more. The release of unreleased material that an artist left behind can certainly be lots of fun and keep the hard core fandom entertained. And don't get me wrong, I certainly hope we will get some more in that regard. But my fun in being an MJ fan isn't really tied to that. And my bigger point is a bit philosophical, I guess: a lot of how we feel is decided in our own head. Despite certain hardships I personally don't feel that being an MJ fan sucks. Well said. I think fans can also be a little short sighted. At the end of the day, there's only a finite amount of material left to play with. If they'd followed Xscape up in 2016 with a third posthumous album and released Dangerous 25 and Invincible 20 with second discs of bonus tracks, what would even be left at this point? MJ was not Prince in that regard. Most of us are still pretty young, under 50 I would say. I might start bitching about the lack of posthumous material if I'm grave-dodging and time is a matter of urgency, but for now, I'm happy to wait.
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Post by WildStyle on Nov 23, 2021 7:53:41 GMT
This is going to be a bit of soap box material and not even about Taj, but a reaction to the above posts, so please deal with me. I think whether someone chooses to always harp on what's negative in being an MJ fan is inevitably going to feel frustrated and feel that being an MJ fan sucks. Of course, there are hardships and genuine things to be frustrated over (and probably a lot more than in any other fandom), but I feel the "doom and gloom" mood some fans drive themselves into is often self inflicted. I mean, yeah LN and the allegations is a massive trauma for all of us. We need to keep addressing it from time to time. Yes, I too envy some of the projects other Estates are doing for their artist and the general care and love they handle their artist's work, while I too voice my frustration about the Estate not really caring about MJ's. But overall my experience of being an MJ fan isn't that it sucks. I don't even consider myself a particularly optimistic/"think positive" type of person, but I think there are a lot of things to be happy about as an MJ fan. The way his legacy keeps up despite of everything. Sure it would be great to hear unreleased material but that's never something that actually keeps up an artist's legacy. It's the work that they left behind while they were alive that does that. And MJ is doing extremely well in that. Maybe it's a double edge sword because that's what makes the Estate too comfortable in doing nothing as well, while other Estates need to work their ass off to even get their artist charting sometimes. I can understand if you are bored with listening to the same old MJ material and want something new, but to be honest while the outtakes on Bad 25 are fun and that was arguably a good project, something in the direction that hard core fans would want, but I still listen to the original Bad tracks more. My point is with that, again, that whatever gets released posthumously, at the end of the day it's the original material that defines an artist's legacy and that we'll keep coming back to. And I'm content with that legacy. I don't feel empty about it just because we don't get posthumous material. And I don't feel like I need to be constantly kept excited with "new" things to have fun as an MJ fan. I accepted the fact that MJ is dead and there won't be anything REALLY new from him any more. The release of unreleased material that an artist left behind can certainly be lots of fun and keep the hard core fandom entertained. And don't get me wrong, I certainly hope we will get some more in that regard. But my fun in being an MJ fan isn't really tied to that. And my bigger point is a bit philosophical, I guess: a lot of how we feel is decided in our own head. Despite certain hardships I personally don't feel that being an MJ fan sucks. Just to be clear, I said being an MJ fan is crappy today. Ok, maybe not that different to saying it sucks. I probably should correct that to "can be crappy at times". MJ's legacy is holding up, and doing better than other legacy artists, but why settle for just that when it could be doing even better? It's doing well because he's Michael freaking Jackson and his impact and what he left behind was that amazing. The estate deserve absolutely no credit for it whatsoever (not saying you are crediting them with anything). Quality, thoughtful releases bring good PR, fan engagement and fan recruitment. That cannot be disputed. So it's doing well, but it could be doing better. He's Michael Jackson. I remember what it was like when he was here. The world didn't stop and pay attention for any other artist like that. And for long time fans, yes it's nice to see Dangerous re-enter the charts, but that stuff isn't going to really keep us engaged. MJ's released work while he was alive will always be the most important, but his entire artistic legacy is everything he created. That's just what happens when artists pass away. Their other work is presented to the world. Whether that be Leonardo Da Vinci's unreleased drawings or Jimi Hendrix's unfinished songs. And there are SO MANY other things they can do than just the obvious put some unreleased songs on an album. If they never released another song, another video, another book, another anything... I'd still be an MJ fan. I'd still enjoy what we do have. But it would be so much better if we actually had things to look forward to and new things to discuss other than just an old album re-entering the charts, as nice as an achievement as that is.
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