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Post by respect77 on Jan 27, 2019 4:49:04 GMT
Cahrles is such a drama queen.
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Post by Thriller on Jan 27, 2019 4:51:33 GMT
I don’t know anymore... how many more accusers have to come forward before we admit defeat. I feel heartbroken, but I am worried right now that he has duped us all over the years. Jacobshagen barely spent any time with MJ. He has always exaggerated how close he was to MJ. He fabricated notes from MJ saying people were trying to kill him. Like heck he sent this guy any notes. And then we have MJ having sent him a book with a note in it. How ironic. No way this guy was abused. He was going to write another book about MJ. Even late last year he's posting videos of himself with MJ on Facebook. |
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Post by Vega on Jan 27, 2019 5:36:35 GMT
Does anyone have a reupload/mirror of this?
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Post by Russg on Jan 27, 2019 5:44:32 GMT
I am not basing my concerns solely on this article. The Sundance thing has brought up a lot of doubts that I’ve suppressed for a long time about MJ and his relationship with young boys.
I don’t necessarily think that MJs interest in children was sexual, but I am starting to think it was wrong. People always make everything about sex, because we live in a sex obsessed society. People also love to judge. People are either totally innocent or a complete monster. The reality is, human beings are far more complex than that. I’m starting to think that Michael craved intimacy of a non-sexual nature with young boys. He wanted to hug them, spoon them, be intimate and show them affection, and he also wanted to be one of them. He even refers to this in the Bashir documentary. Listen to his choice of words “they want to be touched, they want to be held.”
The more I think about it, the more I’m convinced that he craved physical, non-sexual intimacy from these kids. I think he sought something from them that satisfied a deep physchological need he had stemming from the devestating impact his father had on him in his childhood.
I think this is why so many of the boys who did spend alone time with him are now saying that it was wrong. Not because anything sexual necessarily happened, but because he had emotional and physical needs that he sought from these kids that simply wasn’t normal for a grown man. I think it’s easy for the likes of Wade and Safechuck to look at their time with MJ and see that it wasn’t a normal or healthy relationship, and they perhaps felt uncomfortable/confused about the way in which he engaged with them. Therefore, it is hardly much of a leap to add in a sexual element to it, especially when there is a major financial incentive to do so.
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Post by Snow White on Jan 27, 2019 6:04:09 GMT
"Michael craved intimacy of a non-sexual nature with young boys?" Are you falling for that crap narrative he just hung out or had interest just for boys? He invited many girls to spend time with him at Neverland or other locations and they weren't just his nieces, cousins or sisters of the boys.
None of the accusers had a particularly close friendship with him, the vast majority of the children who spent time with him or were closer have nothing but good memories and experiences. People like Emmanuel, Macaulay spent more time than any of those backstabbers and have nothing but praises and love to Michael every single time they're asked about him.
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Post by Liberian Girl on Jan 27, 2019 6:09:28 GMT
I can't believe any fan has seen through the utter bullshit of Arvizo & Chandler all these years, yet wobbles about MJs innocence based on someone as deceitful as Wade and this other lying fraudster, Jacobshagen. The lies are so easy to see through that it's actually depressing a major news outlet haven't rubbed two brain cells together to see through it.
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Post by respect77 on Jan 27, 2019 6:13:55 GMT
I think it’s easy for the likes of Wade and Safechuck to look at their time with MJ and see that it wasn’t a normal or healthy relationship, and they perhaps felt uncomfortable/confused about the way in which he engaged with them. Therefore, it is hardly much of a leap to add in a sexual element to it, especially when there is a major financial incentive to do so.
I don't think any of this is about them being uncomfortable or confused. It is about them filing a lawsuit for money. There are other elements maybe, like a feeling of rejection (especially on Safechuck's part from whom MJ kind of drifted away during Safechuck's late teens), but it is not about touches or intimacy. Emotinal scars from the rejection, perhaps.
I can see that MJ was sometimes maybe a fickle friend - he had this habit of being BFF with someone then suddenly dropping them and move on to another BFF. On contrary to tabloid myth though, that wasn't about children reaching puberty and him suddenly not being interested, as he did not only do this to children.
As I understand Wade and Safechuck are trying to push this narrative in their doc now, but the fact is their own story refutes that notion. Wade was having a BBQ with MJ even in 2008. And if he wants to talk about feeling rejected for Brett and Mac then that was before he reached puberty. It seems to me that Wade was simply never in that BFF status to begin with. Yes, MJ mentored him, yes they met occasionally, but he never actually spent as much time with him as with Brett or Mac. Which apparently (based on Joy's deposition) was a source of jealousy for Wade. (And this is why they try to imply Brett and Mac were "victims" too, because they know if they weren't that casts serious doubts on Wade's claims as well.)
And Safechuck's own lawsuit says MJ continued to befriend and mentor him until at least his late teens. He was with him in Budapest 1994 when he was 16. He was in Earth Song when he was 17. He talks about MJ discussing his college education with his parents. But later they did drift away and I feel from his lawsuit that Safechuck does have a resentment for being abandoned by him. Not because of intimacy or touching or any of that crap. It is more about the entitlement that he thought MJ would help him make a career in showbiz and it never happened. And he also blames it on MJ that MJ supposedly talked his parents out of sending sending him to college and told them to focus on film making instead.
In Wade's case if there is any resentment then I feel it is about MJ setting the bar too high for him ("new Spielberg") and him failing to reach it.
So yes, there are emotional issues there but none of that has to do with touching or intimacy. It has to do with career expectations and feelings of rejection.
And I don't see any problems with MJ's relationship with children (and contrary to tabloid myths it weren't just boys) if it didn't include a sexual element. Only a problem in the sense that it made him an easy target. But that's morally not his fault but that of his false accusers.
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Post by kremlinshadow on Jan 27, 2019 6:18:03 GMT
I can't believe any fan has seen through the utter bullshit of Arvizo & Chandler all these years, yet wobbles about MJs innocence based on someone as deceitful as Wade and this other lying fraudster, Jacobshagen. The lies are so easy to see through that it's actually depressing a major news outlet haven't rubbed two brain cells together to see through it. It's too convenient for them, they will never attempt to see through it it's payday for them. You saw how they were invested in a guilty verdict in 2005, they had written their front pages before the verdict. |
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Post by kremlinshadow on Jan 27, 2019 6:27:52 GMT
I think it’s easy for the likes of Wade and Safechuck to look at their time with MJ and see that it wasn’t a normal or healthy relationship, and they perhaps felt uncomfortable/confused about the way in which he engaged with them. Therefore, it is hardly much of a leap to add in a sexual element to it, especially when there is a major financial incentive to do so.
And I don't see any problems with MJ's relationship with children (and contrary to tabloid myths it weren't just boys) if it didn't include a sexual element. I have a real issue with this when people ask that cliche question that what normal 50 year old would spend time in the company of children or let them sleep in his bed. The thing is you can't compare MJ to a 'normal' 50 year old, he just wasn't. He was deprived, used and treated as a commodity both by the industry and his family before his 10th birthday to the day he died, nobody can even try to understand what that does to your psyche. And it seems quite logical to me anyway why he'd seek out the friendship of kids as they would not prejudge him or be after anything, that only came into play through the parents. Media have always used this as an excuse, and will always continue to. |
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Post by respect77 on Jan 27, 2019 6:57:51 GMT
And I don't see any problems with MJ's relationship with children (and contrary to tabloid myths it weren't just boys) if it didn't include a sexual element. I have a real issue with this when people ask that cliche question that what normal 50 year old would spend time in the company of children or let them sleep in his bed. The thing is you can't compare MJ to a 'normal' 50 year old, he just wasn't. He was deprived, used and treated as a commodity both by the industry and his family before his 10th birthday to the day he died, nobody can even try to understand what that does to your psyche. And it seems quite logical to me anyway why he'd seek out the friendship of kids as they would not prejudge him or be after anything, that only came into play through the parents. Media have always used this as an excuse, and will always continue to.
Plus most of the children he befriended had some kind of similarity to the childhood he had. When you hear Mac talk about their friendship it makes sense totally why would they connect. Both showbiz kids, both with strict, abusive fathers they resented etc. Wade too with his aggressive stage mom who MJ begged to let Wade have his childhood. Safechuck and his parents too seemed to have some sort of ambition for him in showbiz.
MJ loved showbiz, so I think he always connected with kids who shared that interest. (Jordan too was interested in script writing etc.) Like in any normal friendship you connect with people with whom you have common interests. On the other hand he was also worried about kids with aggressive stage parents (Mac, Wade). While on the one hand he encouraged the showbiz ambitions, but on the other he also wanted these parents to let their kids have their childhoods too. Obviously learning from his own experience.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 10:09:31 GMT
Well, talk about going from "Oh Christ" to pissing myself laughing in 5 minutes when I went through the emotions reading this this morning!
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Post by kaeleah on Jan 27, 2019 10:34:23 GMT
Yeah, I've relieved it's so obviously false. At least Wade actually knew Michael pretty well...
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,489 
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Post by TonyR on Jan 27, 2019 13:48:01 GMT
Well, talk about going from "Oh Christ" to pissing myself laughing in 5 minutes when I went through the emotions reading this this morning! That was exactly me!!!! Love you Nige. |
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Post by MattyJam on Jan 27, 2019 18:51:49 GMT
I don’t know anymore... how many more accusers have to come forward before we admit defeat. I feel heartbroken, but I am worried right now that he has duped us all over the years. You know where the door is. |
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Post by Russg on Jan 27, 2019 19:00:07 GMT
I don’t know anymore... how many more accusers have to come forward before we admit defeat. I feel heartbroken, but I am worried right now that he has duped us all over the years. You know where the door is. Thanks, that's how this board works now, is it? If a long-time, genuine fan expresses genuine concerns you get sent your marching orders? Classy. |
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