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Post by respect77 on Sept 14, 2020 16:08:10 GMT
It's more than 5 hours and I haven't watched it yet, just looked into it at certain places. I think it would have been better if they make it a several part series rather than 5 hours straight. Plus if my aim is to convince people about MJ's innocence of the allegations I would focus on those and leave out everything else (like Sony conspiracy, paternity, Geffen etc - there are even many fans who disagree about those subjects and honestly some of these conspiracy theories about Geffen, AEG/Sony deliberately killing MJ etc. make us look like tin-foil hat folks which is a shame if we want to convince the world of MJ's innocence). There are also some unsubstantiated assumptions I disagree with, like the whole June + MJ love story thing - and I don't think we need that to show MJ's innocence. I suspect most of this material comes from the Vindicate MJ blog, these are Helena's pet topics. One thing we all agree on is MJ's innocence and that's what I would have kept the focus on and what we know for a fact, not assumptions.
I hate to criticize it because I was excited when I saw this was made and I want to support anything that supports MJ's innocence and I am sure there are many great and valuable parts of it, but these are the issues I had by just looking into it at different parts. I also know what a huge effort it must have been to compile all this. But I feel if we want to convince the world of MJ's innocence we should be as factual as possible and cut unproven assumptions and conspiracy theories.
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Post by ShadowDeeps on Sept 14, 2020 21:15:32 GMT
So I gave it a watch. Overall, it wasn’t a shabby effort but for a documentary that totaled over five hours in length, besides certain errors such as the insurance carrier settling without MJ’s permission (a filing error by Brian Oxman, who was also featured in it), I was somewhat taken aback by the complete lack of any mention of Wade (besides his appearance on Jimmy Kimmel in 2003 and being alluded to as part of the three who testified in Michael’s favor as defense witnesses) and James, along with Leaving Neverland. One part even mentions MJ only having two accusers which no longer holds true. With Wade having written a note that his “story” about “abuse” should make him “relatable” and “relevant”, and it’s “time” for him to “get his”, I’m at least partially of the mind that Wade doesn’t deserve any screen time anyway, and neither does Dan or James. And if this was made before Leaving Neverland I wouldn’t necessarily bat an eye. But I feel the whole smear campaign against MJ last year made it such that it is no longer practical to ignore those allegations against MJ in the fight for his posthumous vindication and the clearing of his name. I feel they need to be addressed. This was longer than Leaving Neverland in one sitting so there was certainly room enough to counter the propaganda without foregoing too much of the content.
On the plus side, Square One was referenced in it. A particular scene that struck me as tragically saddening was when MJ’s backup dancers were rehearsing TWYMMF for the second leg of the Dangerous Tour. He (MJ) noted he was simply going to watch whilst putting his sunglasses on. Then he subsequently proceeded to sit down and cry upon learning the news of the Chandler allegations while someone consoled him. I don’t think the general public understands the heavy emotional toll those allegations (both in 1993 and especially in 2005) took on him. The portion on the 2005 trial was also quite extensive and thorough. And it was quite reprehensible to see all those media “talking heads” completely dehumanize and disregard MJ for the sake of ratings in the duration of the trial, instead of actually covering said trial, what with what a farce it actually was, particularly for the prosecution. It was equally revulsive to learn of all those former “friends” of MJ who chose not to be there for him during the same trial because they were advised not to be, only to come out of the woodwork after he died to profess their supposed love for him when he’s no longer around to appreciate it. How convenient.
I’d say what detracts from this effort most, besides the conspiracy theories, is the lack of any rebuttal content regarding Leaving Neverland. What if someone who knows nothing about the Michael Jackson allegations, who watched Leaving Neverland, who wants to learn the truth, watches this? They’re not going to find a rebuttal to those allegations here. Even Square One isn’t really a rebuttal, as it chooses to investigate the first case which never went to trial. They’d have to watch Lies of Leaving Neverland, Chase the Truth, Neverland Firsthand, The real story, The Aftermath, Take two, Never ever land, Raz0rfist’s videos, A case for innocence, etc. This wasn’t a shoddy effort but given the very long running time it could have been used more productively.
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Post by aazzaabb on Sept 14, 2020 21:45:15 GMT
Below is ground zero for Leaving Neverland. A five hour documentary is pointless and self indulgent. MJ fans don’t have five hours to watch MJ videos let alone a casual and confused person watch a patchy documentary. The bellow videos and the video that Respect77 scripted are all anyone needs. Can’t remember which one Repect77’s video is.
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Post by amaya on Sept 15, 2020 5:18:52 GMT
I forgot all about this. Pretty disappointing that it's not what it could have been. Five hours is way too long, too; for a subject like this it NEEDS to be done in multiple parts because there's just so much crap to go through.
Not sure if I'll watch it or not. Would be a hell of a time sink, and I worry that my anger level will rise up like it does when watching anything about the allegations.
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Post by WildStyle on Sept 17, 2020 5:36:46 GMT
It's more than 5 hours and I haven't watched it yet, just looked into it at certain places. I think it would have been better if they make it a several part series rather than 5 hours straight. Plus if my aim is to convince people about MJ's innocence of the allegations I would focus on those and leave out everything else (like Sony conspiracy, paternity, Geffen etc - there are even many fans who disagree about those subjects and honestly some of these conspiracy theories about Geffen, AEG/Sony deliberately killing MJ etc. make us look like tin-foil hat folks which is a shame if we want to convince the world of MJ's innocence). There are also some unsubstantiated assumptions I disagree with, like the whole June + MJ love story thing - and I don't think we need that to show MJ's innocence. I suspect most of this material comes from the Vindicate MJ blog, these are Helena's pet topics. One thing we all agree on is MJ's innocence and that's what I would have kept the focus on and what we know for a fact, not assumptions.
I hate to criticize it because I was excited when I saw this was made and I want to support anything that supports MJ's innocence and I am sure there are many great and valuable parts of it, but these are the issues I had by just looking into it at different parts. I also know what a huge effort it must have been to compile all this. But I feel if we want to convince the world of MJ's innocence we should be as factual as possible and cut unproven assumptions and conspiracy theories.
Couldn't agree more about the conspiracy theory stuff. I think your criticisms are spot on. |
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Post by russtcb on Oct 28, 2020 12:37:33 GMT
I've been working on helping fix the voice overs on this. I completed voice overs for the 2005 trial part along with the sections that cover Michael's horrific mistreatment by the mainstream media. I have no idea what the ETA is for the new version to be released, but I know others are involved with improving the rest of it. Just wanted to give everyone an update on what I helped with  |
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Post by russtcb on Nov 23, 2020 19:38:57 GMT
Finished up (what I think is) the last of the voice overs for this today. As far as I know, the new & improved version should be premiered soon.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2020 20:10:14 GMT
Finished up (what I think is) the last of the voice overs for this today. As far as I know, the new & improved version should be premiered soon. Fair play. Is it still 5 hours long? |
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Post by russtcb on Nov 23, 2020 23:43:17 GMT
Finished up (what I think is) the last of the voice overs for this today. As far as I know, the new & improved version should be premiered soon. Fair play. Is it still 5 hours long? I'm not exactly sure what's going on with the editing to be honest. I provided replacement voice overs for most of the doc but they're doing all of the rest of the work. I know it was suggested to them to break it up into episodes, but I don't know yet if that actually happened. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2020 12:38:08 GMT
Fair play. Is it still 5 hours long? I'm not exactly sure what's going on with the editing to be honest. I provided replacement voice overs for most of the doc but they're doing all of the rest of the work. I know it was suggested to them to break it up into episodes, but I don't know yet if that actually happened. It would be silly not to break it up. Finding the time to watch a 3 hour movie is a blessing and a rare occurrence. Well done to you though! |
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Post by russtcb on Dec 5, 2020 18:09:16 GMT
Update: I'm told the new version is being uploaded tomorrow. I still don't know anything about if it's been broken up into segments/episodes but I know I completed all of my voice over work including some new parts they want to add |
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Post by russtcb on Dec 6, 2020 16:34:13 GMT
It's coming tomorrow and apparently it will be broken up into parts:
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Post by russtcb on Dec 7, 2020 14:50:32 GMT
Looks like it'll be 4 parts |
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Post by russtcb on Dec 7, 2020 18:44:37 GMT
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Post by aazzaabb on Jan 30, 2021 0:19:55 GMT
So I finally managed to watch this over the past 3 nights and it was for the most part, excellent! russtcb thank you for being part of it and also thank you to the creator(s). It was very emotional and what really rang through was how they absolutely systematically destroyed him and completely knocked his confidence, ridiculed him, laughed at him and went after him with the absolute intention of taking him down. As a fan you’re left feeling utterly sad and hurt by what they did, and at a complete loss as to how incredibly vile and evil the human race is. Critiquing it, it could do with some tighter editing in certain places and in some areas the footage quality could be better but that’s almost secondary to the overall presentation because it does a very decent job at telling its story. For a fan effort it’s very well done and I’d recommend it to others. I didn’t plan on watching all of it but became enthralled and caught up in it. Parts of the script are very well written. It doesn’t get to the Wade and James mess and it doesn’t need to as by the end of it you’re left with absolutely no doubt that MJ was intentionally targeted and lynched from the get go. The script is great and with a bigger budget and better production quality you’ed have a Netflix 4 or 5 part series smash hit. MJ’s story needs to be told, he needs to be vindicated and you feel hope when watching this. This is a massive year for MJ’s legacy -50th Anniversary- and you just know the vultures are looming large in the background waiting to pounce just at the right moment. At some point the world needs to wake the fuck up to all of what they did and are doing! |
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