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Post by HIStoric on May 4, 2021 9:01:39 GMT
The thing with the books is that if they were legitimately child pornography, then mere possession of them is a crime in itself (never mind selling it - and you can find it on Amazon apparently so they would be in firing range too).
That means even if they were unable to convince a jury that he molested Arvizo, it was still unequivocal fact that he owned those books and therefore he would've been convicted of possession of illicit materials had they been deemed as such. The fact that he wasn't found guilty of that shows that they weren't child pornography.
Now like Innuendo above, I wouldn't be caught dead with a book like this either. A questionable but legal book or two in a library of literally 10,000+ books doesn't really mean anything - especially when you consider the stacks of legal pornography he did have at his house.
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Post by Russg on May 4, 2021 9:34:44 GMT
it's definitely OK to not be comfortable with certain things, and I think it's healthy to ask. It shows that fans aren't just "drinking the kool-aid". Finally, some common sense in this thread. I knew I'd missed you for a reason! Fans should be ENCORUAGED to talk and discuss this stuff if they're going to defend him with a straight face. This stuff shouldn't be relegated imo to a separate forum. Like it or not, these allegations are a part of MJs legacy and we need to know our shit. Sometimes that involves discussing uncomfortable subjects, or grey areas. Lets be honest, even the most ardent MJ supporters could look at certain aspects of his behaviour or life choices and feel uncomfortable. His behaviour around children WAS problematic, most of all to himself. That doesn't mean he was guilty, but shying away from these subjects and pretending like everything was hunky dory and that there weren't serious areas in his personal life which were cause for concern, is just burying your head in the sand. Maybe some fans like TonyR are happy to do that, but I'm not. If the fans come across like blind worshippers drinking the kool aid, how can we expect anybody to take us seriously when we defend his innocence?? |
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Post by Russg on May 4, 2021 9:36:53 GMT
The reason I posted it here instead of the other section was because I didn't want it to get buried in some old thread from 3 years ago, but alas, respect77 carries on her vendetta against me. I don't know who put her in charge of the MJ fan community but @mattyjam allows her to bully freely on this board. Except I wasn't the only one pointing out you should have posted it in the proper section. At least two other people did before me. Yes, but you're the only one who has an almost compulsive history of taking me to task every time I post something which doesn't fit into your pre-approved list of topics MJ fans should be allowed to discuss. You say I post these things for attention (I don't), I'm just not afraid to ask the difficult questions and I don't see why I should be. |
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
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Post by TonyR on May 4, 2021 9:53:47 GMT
it's definitely OK to not be comfortable with certain things, and I think it's healthy to ask. It shows that fans aren't just "drinking the kool-aid". Finally, some common sense in this thread. I knew I'd missed you for a reason! Fans should be ENCORUAGED to talk and discuss this stuff if they're going to defend him with a straight face. This stuff shouldn't be relegated imo to a separate forum. Like it or not, these allegations are a part of MJs legacy and we need to know our shit. Sometimes that involves discussing uncomfortable subjects, or grey areas. Lets be honest, even the most ardent MJ supporters could look at certain aspects of his behaviour or life choices and feel uncomfortable. His behaviour around children WAS problematic, most of all to himself. That doesn't mean he was guilty, but shying away from these subjects and pretending like everything was hunky dory and that there weren't serious areas in his personal life which were cause for concern, is just burying your head in the sand. Maybe some fans like TonyR are happy to do that, but I'm not. If the fans come across like blind worshippers drinking the kool aid, how can we expect anybody to take us seriously when we defend his innocence?? Believe me, I don't bury my head in the sand about it. I've been very vocal in the past about aspects of MJ's behaviour, his surgery & his complete stupid pig headedness to change his behaviour post 93. It's just that like I said 99% of articles you read about MJ now mention the allegations, and it's nice to have one place where you aren't just battered in the face with it. Just my opinion. If we were in a pub discussing MJ I'd probably join in the conversation to be fair. |
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Post by MattyJam on May 4, 2021 10:19:04 GMT
it's definitely OK to not be comfortable with certain things, and I think it's healthy to ask. It shows that fans aren't just "drinking the kool-aid". Finally, some common sense in this thread. I knew I'd missed you for a reason! Fans should be ENCORUAGED to talk and discuss this stuff if they're going to defend him with a straight face. This stuff shouldn't be relegated imo to a separate forum. Like it or not, these allegations are a part of MJs legacy and we need to know our shit. Sometimes that involves discussing uncomfortable subjects, or grey areas. Lets be honest, even the most ardent MJ supporters could look at certain aspects of his behaviour or life choices and feel uncomfortable. His behaviour around children WAS problematic, most of all to himself. That doesn't mean he was guilty, but shying away from these subjects and pretending like everything was hunky dory and that there weren't serious areas in his personal life which were cause for concern, is just burying your head in the sand. Maybe some fans like TonyR are happy to do that, but I'm not. If the fans come across like blind worshippers drinking the kool aid, how can we expect anybody to take us seriously when we defend his innocence?? Unfortunately for you russ, this isn't your board and you don't get to make the rules. And I say that without a shred of arrogance, as I don't make the rules on my own personal whim, but depending upon what I believe the majority of members want to see. I want to make this a pleasurable board for fans to come and visit, so I will usually go with what the majority want. I personally couldn't care less if these subjects were in the main section (mainly because I keep a close eye on the members who post here and ensure that they are all legit fans and have a zero tolerance for allowing haters to post here), but I'm not the only one who posts here and I try to be considerate of the wishes of other fans. On occasion we've had the odd new member register whose sole interest appears to be the allegations and I've ended up having to ban them as it is abundantly clear they have no interest in MJ the artist, man, human being and reduce him to merely the allegations. If you want to discuss MJ as a true crime case, then join a true crime forum. FWIW, I don't see you as one of those people, as you have a long history of starting threads about all aspects of MJ's life and career and I tend to enjoy a lot of your threads. I have stated numerous times that I am happy for fans to discuss any aspects of the allegations in the designated forum, which as I see it, is a win-win solution for everybody. It gives the fans who want a break from the negative stuff a chance to ignore those threads and it allows the fans who want to dissect that stuff a place to do so. I think you got accused of attention seeking by starting this thread because you showed a flagrant disregard for the rules by posting this in the main MJ section which not everybody wants to see. You admitted yourself you did this so the thread would get more attention. |
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Post by respect77 on May 4, 2021 10:39:24 GMT
I'm not sure why it's not a good compromise to keep allegations talk in this part of the forum and why Russ keeps insisting it should be in the main forum?
I think we should actively avoid sinking into the demise of many other MJ forums where allegations talk is all but taking over the forum, because that's what people keep obsessing about. Like on LSA where it's sometimes fans themselves feeding into it by constantly starting unnecessary troll magnet threads. As a result that once fun forum became a rather toxic place where hardly any fan feels at home any more and where MJ is reduced to the allegations. I know a lot of fans left. I don't think they realize how counterproductive it is to allow MJ be dominated by this crap. He was a musician, a dancer, a songwriter, an artist first and foremost and we should claim back his legacy for that, and resist his whole legacy being buried under the allegations. On contrary to what Russg says, this isn't being afraid of addressing certain uncomfortable topics, but these topics have already been addressed a million times so at this point it's just beating a dead horse. But if that's what you want to keep dwelling on, here's this section of the forum, exactly for that, but don't try to force it on other people by trying to make such topics dominate the forum in the main section. I'm telling you once that happens I leave because we have enough that crap on other forums like LSA etc.
IMO the purpose of having a separate Trials and Tribulations section exactly to avoid reducing MJ to the allegations and court cases. The insisting of putting such allegations threads on center stage in the main forum to me contradicts the claim that this is not being done for attention.
Also, read the room RussG. My impression is that this is a fan forum with mostly old time fans, who have seen it all, who know most of the hater arguments, pro and contra arguments who have been there, done that re. allegations discussions, and maybe here they look for something else, a more relaxed atmosphere. You cannot force them to focus on the allegations when that's not what they come here for. But if anyone wants to discuss them, they can come here to do it in this part of the forum.
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Post by elusivemoonwalker on May 4, 2021 12:26:01 GMT
Also, read the room RussG. My impression is that this is a fan forum with mostly old time fans, who have seen it all, who know most of the hater arguments, pro and contra arguments who have been there, done that re. allegations discussions, and maybe here they look for something else, a more relaxed atmosphere. You cannot force them to focus on the allegations when that's not what they come here for. But if anyone wants to discuss them, they can come here to do it in this part of the forum.
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Exactly. No problem discussing it if its posted in the T&T section. The problem,well not a problem is that most of the fans on here were fans in 93. They went through it at the time and in 05. And it was discussed at the time and they arent really bothered going through it again as theres nothing new to say. The books werent illegal,some were given as gifts.personally it looks like francia put them there as a set up inorder to make them look suspicious.and he was a huge collector of art etc books so on there own.owned by joe bloggs who wasnt gifted them who doesnt have a huge collection of art etc books and was caught with child porn they would raise an eyebrow but they werent!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2021 13:18:48 GMT
Also, read the room RussG. My impression is that this is a fan forum with mostly old time fans, who have seen it all, who know most of the hater arguments, pro and contra arguments who have been there, done that re. allegations discussions, and maybe here they look for something else, a more relaxed atmosphere. You cannot force them to focus on the allegations when that's not what they come here for. But if anyone wants to discuss them, they can come here to do it in this part of the forum. ------------ Exactly. No problem discussing it if its posted in the T&T section. The problem,well not a problem is that most of the fans on here were fans in 93. They went through it at the time and in 05. And it was discussed at the time and they arent really bothered going through it again as theres nothing new to say. The books werent illegal,some were given as gifts.personally it looks like francia put them there as a set up inorder to make them look suspicious.and he was a huge collector of art etc books so on there own.owned by joe bloggs who wasnt gifted them who doesnt have a huge collection of art etc books and was caught with child porn they would raise an eyebrow but they werent! That's MJJC. Judas  |
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Post by elusivemoonwalker on May 4, 2021 14:31:50 GMT
🤭🤫 whoops 😜
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Post by MattyJam on May 4, 2021 15:38:26 GMT
Also, read the room RussG. My impression is that this is a fan forum with mostly old time fans, who have seen it all, who know most of the hater arguments, pro and contra arguments who have been there, done that re. allegations discussions, and maybe here they look for something else, a more relaxed atmosphere. You cannot force them to focus on the allegations when that's not what they come here for. But if anyone wants to discuss them, they can come here to do it in this part of the forum. ------------ Exactly. No problem discussing it if its posted in the T&T section. The problem,well not a problem is that most of the fans on here were fans in 93. They went through it at the time and in 05. And it was discussed at the time and they arent really bothered going through it again as theres nothing new to say. The books werent illegal,some were given as gifts.personally it looks like francia put them there as a set up inorder to make them look suspicious.and he was a huge collector of art etc books so on there own.owned by joe bloggs who wasnt gifted them who doesnt have a huge collection of art etc books and was caught with child porn they would raise an eyebrow but they werent! That's MJJC. Judas And how would you know that, huh??? |
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,489
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Post by TonyR on May 4, 2021 17:19:59 GMT
Also, read the room RussG. My impression is that this is a fan forum with mostly old time fans, who have seen it all, who know most of the hater arguments, pro and contra arguments who have been there, done that re. allegations discussions, and maybe here they look for something else, a more relaxed atmosphere. You cannot force them to focus on the allegations when that's not what they come here for. But if anyone wants to discuss them, they can come here to do it in this part of the forum. ------------ Exactly. No problem discussing it if its posted in the T&T section. The problem,well not a problem is that most of the fans on here were fans in 93. They went through it at the time and in 05. And it was discussed at the time and they arent really bothered going through it again as theres nothing new to say. The books werent illegal,some were given as gifts.personally it looks like francia put them there as a set up inorder to make them look suspicious.and he was a huge collector of art etc books so on there own.owned by joe bloggs who wasnt gifted them who doesnt have a huge collection of art etc books and was caught with child porn they would raise an eyebrow but they werent! That's MJJC. Judas Oh yeah, I called it that also! Happy times. |
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Post by butterflies2 on May 4, 2021 17:45:08 GMT
Mjjcult I like to call it
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Post by electriceyes on May 4, 2021 17:50:58 GMT
Mjjcult I like to call it MJJCunts more like. |
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Post by butterflies2 on May 4, 2021 18:13:53 GMT
Mjjcult I like to call it MJJCunts more like. On point! They suck and I enjoy chatting with more down to earth people here |
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Post by elusivemoonwalker on May 4, 2021 18:17:44 GMT
That's MJJC. Judas And how would you know that, huh??? 🤔🤐🤪 from a friend😉 |
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