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Post by ghost on Dec 22, 2022 8:08:14 GMT
This has become a bit of phenomenon on Twitter and social media lately. The newest buzz-term calling out celebrities deemed unworthy of their success. I read this article about Lily Allen defending nepo babies which was quite interesting:
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Post by respect77 on Dec 22, 2022 8:13:11 GMT
I came to realize that nepotism is a word that Gen Z just learned when I have seen it being thrown around on Twitter in directions where it doesn't belong. More specifically Taylor Swift stans (of all people, the irony) saying that MJ, son of a crane operator from Gary, Indiana was a nepo baby...
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Post by ghost on Dec 22, 2022 8:23:19 GMT
I came to realize that nepotism is a word that Gen Z just learned when I have seen it being thrown around on Twitter in directions where it doesn't belong. More specifically Taylor Swift stans (of all people, the irony) saying that MJ, son of a crane operator from Gary, Indiana was a nepo baby... Well, you can always find someone on Twitter with an absurd opinion on something. But the overarching point of nepotism being rife in the industry is valid and largely undisputed. Of course, this is nothing new, but perhaps it's time some folks were called out on it, seeing as the industry is littered with so much mediocrity.
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Post by Russg on Dec 22, 2022 8:28:23 GMT
This has become a bit of phenomenon on Twitter and social media lately. The newest buzz-term calling out celebrities deemed unworthy of their success. I read this article about Lily Allen defending nepo babies which was quite interesting: I don't even know who Lily Allen is, but maybe she could get job as a carer? Minimum wage, wiping peoples rear ends, in poorly managed and staffed conditions. She would be screamed at, threatened and called names at 3AM in the morning. Many of these staff too had bad upbringings and are working through god knows what health issues and learning difficulties etc. But no one is that interested in their sob story. They have no opportunities other than struggling to provide for basic food and housing and the government don't give a damn. And then people can switch on the phone or log onto Netflix after a day of dealing with people who are physically going for them, on a daily basis, and we can listen to products of nepotism and privilege moan about how bad and misunderstood they are, and how hard they work, and how someone said something mean to them. 90% of people in the industry are so out of touch it is insulting. They get zero sympathy from me. Please do the common man a favor and stop the whining.
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Post by respect77 on Dec 22, 2022 8:48:45 GMT
I came to realize that nepotism is a word that Gen Z just learned when I have seen it being thrown around on Twitter in directions where it doesn't belong. More specifically Taylor Swift stans (of all people, the irony) saying that MJ, son of a crane operator from Gary, Indiana was a nepo baby... Well, you can always find someone on Twitter with an absurd opinion on something. But the overarching point of nepotism being rife in the industry is valid and largely undisputed. Of course, this is nothing new, but perhaps it's time some folks were called out on it, seeing as the industry is littered with so much mediocrity. Yeah. Talking about real nepotism, I think nepotism IS a thing in the entertainment industry. Think about Beyoncé's daughter getting a Grammy at 5 and things like that. The Smith kids. I am sure Paris too benefited somewhat from nepotism in her modelling career (not saying music career, because she doesn't seem to be backed by some major label to me). In her case, it is more the name rather than active help from the parent, obviously. We could certainly go on. And indeed nepotism often elevates rather mediocre talent, if even that. At the same time, I feel it is sometimes a double edged sword. Take for example, Lisa Marie. She definitely benefited from nepotism. Rolling Stone wouldn't have put her on their cover the moment she released an album if she wasn't Elvis's daughter, that's clear. At the same time, I feel sometimes people are dismissive of famous people's children exactly because they are famous people's children. I feel her albums, specifically the last one, are much better than given credit for. But then her type of nepotism is more like Paris's, it's mainly just the name, with no active help from the famous parent. Maybe it's different when your parents are putting you on their albums as a "songwriter" so that you can get a Grammy at 5 or when they are pushing you into movies (Smith kids). That's active parental help nepotism and that probably amounts for more in terms of success than just carrying the name of a famous parent. Although, of course, even without active help from Elvis Lisa with her name and money, could buy some musical collaborators that an average up and coming artist couldn't have. So there's that too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2022 9:01:54 GMT
I saw Lily Allen live when she played the arena near my house in Brussels way back when. Booed the hell out of her when she wasn't gonna play Alfie. She played it for the encore. Great show.
She had one or two more bangers after that but I'd no more read an article written by her to save my life.
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Post by respect77 on Dec 22, 2022 9:05:40 GMT
Regarding the specific family challenges of nepo babies that Lilly Allen is talking about: isn't that more a famous parents issue, whether the child ends up being a nepo baby or not? Not every child of famous parents will go on to work in the industry and benefit from nepotism. The issues of feeling neglected as a child by famous parents who focused more on their careers might still be there for them as well.
And it feels like what Allen is saying is that people should love nepo babies because they had a tough childhood, which sounds a bit absurd. I am sure not every nepo baby grows up neglected by the famous parents, for one. Also, nepo babies don't just come from famous parents. A nepo baby can also be the child of a non-famous but rich/influential parent: eg. Beyoncé, Taylor Swift. The article does feel like someone growing up privileged trying to turn that into a victim act, but maybe I am reading it wrong what she's trying to convey.
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Post by MattyJam on Dec 22, 2022 9:34:16 GMT
Well, you can always find someone on Twitter with an absurd opinion on something. But the overarching point of nepotism being rife in the industry is valid and largely undisputed. Of course, this is nothing new, but perhaps it's time some folks were called out on it, seeing as the industry is littered with so much mediocrity. Yeah. Talking about real nepotism, I think nepotism IS a thing in the entertainment industry. Think about Beyoncé's daughter getting a Grammy at 5 and things like that. The Smith kids. I am sure Paris too benefited somewhat from nepotism in her modelling career (not saying music career, because she doesn't seem to be backed by some major label to me). In her case, it is more the name rather than active help from the parent, obviously. We could certainly go on. And indeed nepotism often elevates rather mediocre talent, if even that. At the same time, I feel it is sometimes a double edged sword. Take for example, Lisa Marie. She definitely benefited from nepotism. Rolling Stone wouldn't have put her on their cover the moment she released an album if she wasn't Elvis's daughter, that's clear. At the same time, I feel sometimes people are dismissive of famous people's children exactly because they are famous people's children. I feel her albums, specifically the last one, are much better than given credit for. But then her type of nepotism is more like Paris's, it's mainly just the name, with no active help from the famous parent. Maybe it's different when your parents are putting you on their albums as a "songwriter" so that you can get a Grammy at 5 or when they are pushing you into movies (Smith kids). That's active parental help nepotism and that probably amounts for more in terms of success than just carrying the name of a famous parent. Although, of course, even without active help from Elvis Lisa with her name and money, could buy some musical collaborators that an average up and coming artist couldn't have. So there's that too. I find Janet an interesting one to analyse. Much like LMP, she's someone who has very obvious familial connections which undoubtedly led to her initial opportunities in the industry, allowing her access to work with musical collaborators who undoubtedly helped put her name on the map. I do think Janet is a better singer than she is given credit for, whilst by no means a powerhouse, her harmonies and vulnerability are very pleasing to the ear. And of course, her dancing is fantastic and she commands a great deal of stage presence. But would any of those things have come to fruition without Michael's astounding talent opening the door for the Jackson family to have these connections in the first place? From signing her first label deal, to surviving two flop albums, to hooking up with Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis and Paula Abdul, it is almost a certainty that Janet, much like all the other Jacksons, wouldn't have had a career in music without Michael's talent having gotten them out of Gary. So where are we meant to stand with that? You can't deny the brilliance of Rhythm Nation or The Velvet Rope and to argue that Janet had nothing to do with those things would be foolish. It's a complicated issue, but one I find interesting to discuss.
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Post by respect77 on Dec 22, 2022 10:18:49 GMT
Yeah. Talking about real nepotism, I think nepotism IS a thing in the entertainment industry. Think about Beyoncé's daughter getting a Grammy at 5 and things like that. The Smith kids. I am sure Paris too benefited somewhat from nepotism in her modelling career (not saying music career, because she doesn't seem to be backed by some major label to me). In her case, it is more the name rather than active help from the parent, obviously. We could certainly go on. And indeed nepotism often elevates rather mediocre talent, if even that. At the same time, I feel it is sometimes a double edged sword. Take for example, Lisa Marie. She definitely benefited from nepotism. Rolling Stone wouldn't have put her on their cover the moment she released an album if she wasn't Elvis's daughter, that's clear. At the same time, I feel sometimes people are dismissive of famous people's children exactly because they are famous people's children. I feel her albums, specifically the last one, are much better than given credit for. But then her type of nepotism is more like Paris's, it's mainly just the name, with no active help from the famous parent. Maybe it's different when your parents are putting you on their albums as a "songwriter" so that you can get a Grammy at 5 or when they are pushing you into movies (Smith kids). That's active parental help nepotism and that probably amounts for more in terms of success than just carrying the name of a famous parent. Although, of course, even without active help from Elvis Lisa with her name and money, could buy some musical collaborators that an average up and coming artist couldn't have. So there's that too. I find Janet an interesting one to analyse. Much like LMP, she's someone who has very obvious familial connections which undoubtedly led to her initial opportunities in the industry, allowing her access to work with musical collaborators who undoubtedly helped put her name on the map. I do think Janet is a better singer than she is given credit for, whilst by no means a powerhouse, her harmonies and vulnerability are very pleasing to the ear. And of course, her dancing is fantastic and she commands a great deal of stage presence. But would any of those things have come to fruition without Michael's astounding talent opening the door for the Jackson family to have these connections in the first place? From signing her first label deal, to surviving two flop albums, to hooking up with Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis and Paula Abdul, it is almost a certainty that Janet, much like all the other Jacksons, wouldn't have had a career in music without Michael's talent having gotten them out of Gary. So where are we meant to stand with that? You can't deny the brilliance of Rhythm Nation or The Velvet Rope and to argue that Janet had nothing to do with those things would be foolish. It's a complicated issue, but one I find interesting to discuss. I realized that me bringing up Beyonce and Taylor Swift as nepo babies (and they are) at the same time points out that being a nepo baby in itself doesn't necessarily mean talentless. I'm no fan of either of them, but it would be stupid to say they are talentless. Especially compared to other current artists. Whether it says something about the current talent pool or not, they are the standout artists of today's popular music and they are nepo babies. Maybe one could make an argument of it that if there was less nepotism then popular music would be overall better and then Taylor and Beyonce wouldn't be the top artists today, but maybe the right conclusion is not this but rather that you can be a nepo baby and still be great. And yes, Janet is a good example of that too. She's a nepo baby, no doubt, but she's an all time great, so that's evidence that nepo baby doesn't necessarily mean mediocre and talentless. Well, she's a mediocre singer, but a great dancer and her catalog is great. It's probably her hard work and determination that took her that far. But then without nepotism she probably would have never got a break in the industry due to her mediocre vocal abilities, and if she had then she would have disappeared after the first flop album and wouldn't have got more chances. So maybe nepotism isn't always a bad thing.
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Post by MattyJam on Dec 22, 2022 10:39:34 GMT
I find Janet an interesting one to analyse. Much like LMP, she's someone who has very obvious familial connections which undoubtedly led to her initial opportunities in the industry, allowing her access to work with musical collaborators who undoubtedly helped put her name on the map. I do think Janet is a better singer than she is given credit for, whilst by no means a powerhouse, her harmonies and vulnerability are very pleasing to the ear. And of course, her dancing is fantastic and she commands a great deal of stage presence. But would any of those things have come to fruition without Michael's astounding talent opening the door for the Jackson family to have these connections in the first place? From signing her first label deal, to surviving two flop albums, to hooking up with Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis and Paula Abdul, it is almost a certainty that Janet, much like all the other Jacksons, wouldn't have had a career in music without Michael's talent having gotten them out of Gary. So where are we meant to stand with that? You can't deny the brilliance of Rhythm Nation or The Velvet Rope and to argue that Janet had nothing to do with those things would be foolish. It's a complicated issue, but one I find interesting to discuss. I realized that me bringing up Beyonce and Taylor Swift as nepo babies (and they are) at the same time points out that being a nepo baby in itself doesn't necessarily mean talentless. I'm no fan of either of them, but it would be stupid to say they are talentless. Especially compared to other current artists. Whether it says something about the current talent pool or not, they are the standout artists of today's popular music and they are nepo babies. Maybe one could make an argument of it that if there was less nepotism then popular music would be overall better and then Taylor and Beyonce wouldn't be the top artists today, but maybe the right conclusion is not this but rather that you can be a nepo baby and still be great. And yes, Janet is a good example of that too. She's a nepo baby, no doubt, but she's an all time great, so that's evidence that nepo baby doesn't necessarily mean mediocre and talentless. Well, she's a mediocre singer, but a great dancer and her catalog is great. It's probably her hard work and determination that took her that far. But then without nepotism she probably would have never got a break in the industry due to her mediocre vocal abilities, and if she had then she would have disappeared after the first flop album and wouldn't have got more chances. So maybe nepotism isn't always a bad thing. I would actually argue that, in terms of privilege-related issues in the music industry, pretty privilege is by far and away the most annoying. In the 70s it didn't matter what you looked like, how old you were or whether you looked someones hairy uncle, it was about the song. These days, they'd rather have an attractive model with little talent, then an aesthetically-challenged mammoth talent. And it's the music that suffers at the end of the day.
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Post by ghost on Dec 23, 2022 21:38:12 GMT
FFS. Cut the shit, Jamie. Acknowledge the monstrous privilege and pay it forward. I guess everyone likes to be the hero of their own story, but the truth is, JLC waltzed onto the set of her first movie as the lead and has been working ever since.
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Post by mjjfan810 on Dec 23, 2022 21:45:01 GMT
This thread does feel very mean spirited. Do we have to criticise everybody about everything in the public eye? I miss the days when people weren't always looking for the next thing to be outraged about.
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Post by ghost on Dec 23, 2022 21:53:31 GMT
This thread does feel very mean spirited. Do we have to criticise everybody about everything in the public eye? I miss the days when people weren't always looking for the next thing to be outraged about. No-ones "outraged." The issue is that it's inherently unfair that kids of famous or powerful people get the door automatically opened for them and these triggered nepo baby celebs who have spent a lifetime riding the coattails of their connections somehow think it's a non-issue if they possess a modicum of talent or work hard to justify their position, whether it be acting, writing, producing, modelling, banking, whatever. Someone like JLC is missing the point entirely. So she worked hard at her craft, doesn't change the fact that without daddy dearest she likely wouldn't have had that opportunity in the first place.
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,413
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Post by TonyR on Dec 23, 2022 21:54:00 GMT
This thread does feel very mean spirited. Do we have to criticise everybody about everything in the public eye? I miss the days when people weren't always looking for the next thing to be outraged about. <3
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Post by respect77 on Dec 24, 2022 6:26:34 GMT
I don't like JLC, but she does have a point that being the child of famous and/or influential parents doesn't necessarily mean that person lacks talent and is undeserving of their fame and success.
We could list people who in the strict sense are nepo babies, yet legends on their own right. From Liza Minnelli to Janet etc etc.
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