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Post by respect77 on Jul 10, 2023 8:02:03 GMT
The fact that a deceased person has to face trial for alleged crimes he couldn’t possibly posthumously deny is just a tad unfair. The burden of proof is basically twice as low (or more) in a civil trial - preponderance of evidence as opposed to beyond a reasonable doubt, and hearsay and circumstantial evidence is allowed. Even though his companies are being sued and not him, without any defamatory laws to protect MJ from libel or slander, this will allow the lies to be extremely outrageous. The two cases have been in the court system for over a decade now, so even if the estate did somehow win, Finaldi, Wade, and James would just appeal again (unless I’m mistaken). It would be a never ending cycle. All this is more incentive to award them “damages” and “move on”. The pretrial coverage obviously won’t be flattering to MJ at all, and the media is intensely prejudiced against MJ as evidenced by all the disparaging articles, “podcasts”, and “films” they’ve made about him since LN (and by their promotion and coverage of LN). However, the most concerning part is the “reasoning” the three judges gave towards reversing the dismissal. It gave eerie flashbacks to Johnny Depp’s UK civil trial. Of course, at this stage in the court proceedings, the judges take the allegations as materially factual so as to assess whether the allegations have grounds to legally be tried in court, but the judges seem to have taken that rationale a step further by disregarding previous court testimony which contradicted the conclusions they were drawing about MJ being a “danger” to “boys”, or staff “knowing” before 1993 about the allegations, or MJ’s “interest” or “special relationship” (really a lack thereof) with Wade and his family. How Blanca could even be considered a halfway reliable witness is beyond me with all the contradictions and lies in her testimonies. These Judges were pro-prosecution (EDIT: my mistake, pro-plaintiff), as they had their preconceived opinions about MJ. The only glimmer of hope is that all such allegations are not required to be taken as true if this case goes to trial (which seems more than probable), and that the estate is efficient in court. Yes to everything here. I can't even get my head around the absurdities this ruling would inevitably lead to at trial. I can't even imagine how this all will go to not look like some witch hunting violation of fundamental rights and a massive case of circular reasoning? The companies supposedly had a duty of care because of the alleged abuse that they didn't know about at the time (and in fact, the alleged "victims" themselves denied) and should have protected the alleged "victims" from something a) they didn't know about, b) the alleged "victims" themselves denied? It's so insanely ridiculous. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2023 11:47:32 GMT
I've been torn up about all of this over the last few days. I'm so, so scared for Michael. I keep trying to have hope because I know he's innocent but with burden of proof being lower and decades of media brainwashing who knows what the hell will happen. What if everything about him gets covered up and destroyed and we have no more new music, no more new concerts, no more Broadway or Cirque show, no more anything? I don't see this happening, even if he loses in court. If LN didn't affect the success of his music (sales, streams, theater pieces) I don't think this would either. His reputation might suffer, but interest in his art, when you look at streaming stats, sales, ticket sales to the musical etc since LN, don't seem to be affected. +1. This will not add any weight to the actual claims. |
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Post by MattyJam on Jul 10, 2023 12:53:14 GMT
I've been torn up about all of this over the last few days. I'm so, so scared for Michael. I keep trying to have hope because I know he's innocent but with burden of proof being lower and decades of media brainwashing who knows what the hell will happen. What if everything about him gets covered up and destroyed and we have no more new music, no more new concerts, no more Broadway or Cirque show, no more anything? I'd hate that so, so much. And I'd hate the smugness of the haters even more. The lawyers for Michael's side better bring their best to the oral arguments. And if God forbid a trial does happen they need to go all out. Bring in everyone and anyone that's still alive that would be able to shut this shit down forever. As long as there's fan interest in MJ, there will always be a market for his work. His reputation already took a major hit thanks to LN and a guilty verdict would undoubtedly be a bitter pill to swallow for the fans, but he'd still have a huge number of people believing in his innocence. The fans aren't going anywhere. |
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Post by respect77 on Jul 10, 2023 13:25:25 GMT
I've been torn up about all of this over the last few days. I'm so, so scared for Michael. I keep trying to have hope because I know he's innocent but with burden of proof being lower and decades of media brainwashing who knows what the hell will happen. What if everything about him gets covered up and destroyed and we have no more new music, no more new concerts, no more Broadway or Cirque show, no more anything? I'd hate that so, so much. And I'd hate the smugness of the haters even more. The lawyers for Michael's side better bring their best to the oral arguments. And if God forbid a trial does happen they need to go all out. Bring in everyone and anyone that's still alive that would be able to shut this shit down forever. As long as there's fan interest in MJ, there will always be a market for his work. His reputation already took a major hit thanks to LN and a guilty verdict would undoubtedly be a bitter pill to swallow for the fans, but he'd still have a huge number of people believing in his innocence. The fans aren't going anywhere. Also, it wouldn't be like the 2005 verdict. There would always be a sense of unfairness lingering above this one for the already mentioned reasons. (And it IS unfair to try a dead man and that in a civil trial setting with a lesser burden of proof etc!) |
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Post by MattyJam on Jul 10, 2023 15:47:38 GMT
As long as there's fan interest in MJ, there will always be a market for his work. His reputation already took a major hit thanks to LN and a guilty verdict would undoubtedly be a bitter pill to swallow for the fans, but he'd still have a huge number of people believing in his innocence. The fans aren't going anywhere. Also, it wouldn't be like the 2005 verdict. There would always be a sense of unfairness lingering above this one for the already mentioned reasons. (And it IS unfair to try a dead man and that in a civil trial setting with a lesser burden of proof etc!) Plus, there's still every chance Wade and James would lose their case if it goes to trial. I think sometimes we can lose sight of that, due to fear of the worst case scenario. Even if a jury believed the abuse took place, it'll still be a stretch to convince them that MJs companies were negligent or had any duty of care. |
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Post by amaya on Jul 10, 2023 19:20:50 GMT
I don't see this happening, even if he loses in court. If LN didn't affect the success of his music (sales, streams, theater pieces) I don't think this would either. His reputation might suffer, but interest in his art, when you look at streaming stats, sales, ticket sales to the musical etc since LN, don't seem to be affected. As long as there's fan interest in MJ, there will always be a market for his work. His reputation already took a major hit thanks to LN and a guilty verdict would undoubtedly be a bitter pill to swallow for the fans, but he'd still have a huge number of people believing in his innocence. The fans aren't going anywhere. This is the reassurance I need. Thanks guys.  Guess we just have to wait and see at this point. In the meantime, I'm going to watch tons of stuff of his, including some things that have been sitting in my media server collecting dust. |
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Post by elusivemoonwalker on Aug 6, 2023 12:42:28 GMT
Any final ruling info after the hearing on the 26th? Not really seen much from tscm etc. Just a small comment on arguemnts
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Post by respect77 on Aug 6, 2023 15:34:57 GMT
Any final ruling info after the hearing on the 26th? Not really seen much from tscm etc. Just a small comment on arguemnts Not yet. I'm sure when the final ruling is in it's going to be reported. Not that we can expect any changes compared to the tentative. |
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Post by elusivemoonwalker on Aug 7, 2023 14:53:42 GMT
Any final ruling info after the hearing on the 26th? Not really seen much from tscm etc. Just a small comment on arguemnts Not yet. I'm sure when the final ruling is in it's going to be reported. Not that we can expect any changes compared to the tentative. Thanks👍 |
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Post by NatureCriminal7896 on Aug 11, 2023 16:34:02 GMT
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Post by NatureCriminal7896 on Aug 18, 2023 23:55:16 GMT
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Post by butterflies2 on Aug 19, 2023 0:30:08 GMT
This is stupid, just let him rest
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Post by amaya on Aug 19, 2023 1:19:50 GMT
Here I was hoping that the Estate could convince the judges otherwise, but I guess not... fuck.
I'm... actually not as torn up about this as I thought I would be? Maybe it just hasn't set in yet... but what do we all do now?
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Post by NatureCriminal7896 on Aug 19, 2023 1:58:02 GMT
I was one of those fans who wanted a trial in 2019 because to me i felt it will end it all.
i kind of knew the estate wouldn't be no help. now to know they couldn't stop the judges actually worries me.
it's looking like Michael only got his family, kids, and fans at this point. i hope their prepare.
i hope this wins if not we're pretty much screwed.
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Post by MattyJam on Aug 19, 2023 13:13:18 GMT
So is it definitely going to trial now?
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