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Post by butterflies2 on Aug 17, 2024 22:22:27 GMT
If you could pick one era over the other, which would it be?
When I was a kid, I liked Dangerous era more since I remember it in real time more than Bad, though I have few memories of it as the first era I experienced of his. But once I caught up, I felt Bad is superior
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Post by aazzaabb on Aug 17, 2024 23:34:36 GMT
The older I become the more difficult it is for me to choose. I’d usually say it’s a no-brainer Bad, but….. I do really love the Dangerous era also and I lived through both eras in real time. At the moment I’m reading Susan Fast’s Dangerous book. Although it’s quite a small book it’s incredibly dense and full of information and insight. It’s giving me even more of an appreciation for the album.
The Bad era has been a life long obsession for me to the point where it probably wouldn’t be considered healthy. Every day of my life I’ll usually search YouTube for new Bad era footage and if there’s nothing new I’ll rewatch a concert clip I’ve literally seen hundreds of times. I’ll know what city any given performance is from a 20 second clip. I’ll know if he spins multiple times during Another Part of Me depending on what city he’s in. I’ll know from a picture what song he’s performing and can pinpoint the precise moment the photo is from during a performance. I’ll know if he’s on the first leg American leg from what silver shirt he’s wearing, or if it’s Europe etc. That’s how much I love the Bad era.
But the Dangerous era gave us some incredible things. The album, the short films VHS, the Oprah interview, the Super Bowl show, the Bucharest concert, MTV Dangerous Diaries, the Dancing The Dream book, and some of his best ever singles; Remember The Time, In The Closet, Jam, Give In To Me, Who Is It, Black Or White. I remember the premier’s for all the short films. Black Or White was a massive event, so was Remember The Time. And Off The Wall magazine, even though I’d only managed to buy 2 or 3 issues as it was quite difficult for me to find it in the local shops where I grew up.
I’m going to vote for the Dangerous era to mix it up a bit. I’d usually predictably vote for Bad but today I’m going with Dangerous.
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Post by butterflies2 on Aug 17, 2024 23:50:48 GMT
Wow and I thought I was obsessed with Bad…you’re “even worse”
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Post by aazzaabb on Aug 17, 2024 23:54:22 GMT
Wow and I thought I was obsessed with Bad…you’re “even worse” If forensics ever take my iPad and search my history it’ll literally show thousands upon thousands of Bad era searches. 🤦🏻♂️😂 Its been my lifelong obsession. Well, MJ in general has been my lifelong obsession. But now; Dangerous Teaser
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Post by aazzaabb on Aug 18, 2024 0:02:52 GMT
Wasn’t “Even Worse” the name of Weird Al’s album from back then? 😂
Also, thanks for doing these polls. I enjoy them.👍🏼
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Post by butterflies2 on Aug 18, 2024 0:47:34 GMT
Wasn’t “Even Worse” the name of Weird Al’s album from back then? 😂 Also, thanks for doing these polls. I enjoy them.👍🏼 Yes, that’s what I was referencing haha
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Post by mjjfan810 on Aug 18, 2024 8:58:39 GMT
Bad and it's not even close.
Dangerous, to me, has always been an album of two halves, one great (side 2) and one underpar (most of side 1).
Bad has no skips, Dangerous has almost an entire side of them (RTT and HTW being the only keepers on side 1 imo).
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Post by Michaels Lover on Aug 18, 2024 11:45:40 GMT
Bad and it's not even close. Dangerous, to me, has always been an album of two halves, one great (side 2) and one underpar (most of side 1). Bad has no skips, Dangerous has almost an entire side of them (RTT and HTW being the only keepers on side 1 imo). It's about the eras not the albums
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Post by aazzaabb on Aug 18, 2024 11:49:51 GMT
Michael took way more risks on Dangerous. It’s a more explicit, more adult effort. It’s his true coming of age album and his first without Quincy Jones. He got political with tracks like Why You Wanna Trip On Me and dealt more with his struggles throughout. He’s engaging more with his black heritage in the Remember The Time short film, we get his first on-screen kiss, he’s expressing his masculinity and sexuality in the In The Closet video, race in Black or White, gospel in Keep The Faith, betrayal in Who Is It. Dangerous is an album about masculinity and femininity, loneliness and redemption, sex and romance, love and betrayal.
Bad is instant gratification; a collection of hit singles. With Dangerous you have to put the work in as it’s more of an exploration of adult themes. MJ took way more risks with his image also, in the short films and on the tour.
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Post by aazzaabb on Aug 18, 2024 11:58:16 GMT
Wasn’t “Even Worse” the name of Weird Al’s album from back then? 😂 Also, thanks for doing these polls. I enjoy them.👍🏼 Yes, that’s what I was referencing haha I thought so. 😆
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Post by aazzaabb on Aug 18, 2024 12:06:25 GMT
How about what MJ did with the Super Bowl halftime show? He completely redefined it! How about his entrance on the tour being catapulted into the air and just standing there like a Roman god for 3, 4 minutes. Nobody else could possibly create that kind of anticipation and drama by simply standing still.
All during the Dangerous era!
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Post by aazzaabb on Aug 18, 2024 12:13:19 GMT
Dangerous was akin to a Greek tragedy and also almost Shakespearean. And MJ was Romeo AND Juliet! All at the same time!
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Post by SoCav on Aug 18, 2024 12:28:13 GMT
Michael took way more risks on Dangerous. It’s a more explicit, more adult effort. It’s his true coming of age album and his first without Quincy Jones. He got political with tracks like Why You Wanna Trip On Me and dealt more with his struggles throughout. He’s engaging more with his black heritage in the Remember The Time short film, we get his first on-screen kiss, he’s expressing his masculinity and sexuality in the In The Closet video, race in Black or White, gospel in Keep The Faith, betrayal in Who Is It. Dangerous is an album about masculinity and femininity, loneliness and redemption, sex and romance, love and betrayal. Bad is instant gratification; a collection of hit singles. With Dangerous you have to put the work in as it’s more of an exploration of adult themes. MJ took way more risks with his image also, in the short films and on the tour. I'll jump in to defend Bad here. I know I don't have to sell you on the era, but it's just fun to explore the eras through these discussions. You make some good points regarding Dangerous, but let's not lose sight of what he brought to the table with Bad. -Songwriting: Bad is the album where he almost fully took control of the songwriting, in a way he never would again. It was also his most productive era as a songwriter. And yeah, it was a collection of hits (not that there's anything wrong with that), but that's a huge achievement in and of itself! And it's not like he was writing predictable material. Smooth Criminal is anything but a standard pop song, for example. I think on Bad, he peaked in terms of his ability to write highly accessible, yet unique and original songs (later he'd veer more towards the latter but lose the former slightly). And while Quincy was involved, we now know his involvement was quite limited. I think MJ was more hands-on and in charge with this album than on any other. -Vocals: The evolution from Thriller to Bad was definitely more pronounced than from Bad to Dangerous. The gritty vocal style, the trademark MJ vocal sounds - much of it came about during the Bad era. On Dangerous his voice is a bit deeper, but otherwise it didn't change or evolve much. -Dancing: The same applies here. The development from Thriller to Bad is really quite astounding. When he was already seen as one of the best dancers in the world, he continued to push himself to improve. His moves during this era are further evolved, crisper, more powerful. This was his peak when it came to energy. -Image: Again, the change from Thriller to Bad was quite noteworthy. He clearly wanted to get a bit more of an edge and lose the total goody two shoes image he had with Thriller. Dangerous indeed saw cool further developments, but I again think many aspects of his image and look evolved out of things started during the Bad era. -Short films: Great in both eras, but I'd give this to Bad as well. So many iconic choreographies. It should win based on Smooth Criminal alone. -Clothing: I like both, but I'd say the Bad era looks are more iconic. And no golden leotard. -Live performance: No contest. The Dangerous era was amazing, but overall, I've got to go with Bad.
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Post by butterflies2 on Aug 18, 2024 13:10:06 GMT
Bad and it's not even close. Dangerous, to me, has always been an album of two halves, one great (side 2) and one underpar (most of side 1). Bad has no skips, Dangerous has almost an entire side of them (RTT and HTW being the only keepers on side 1 imo). It's about the eras not the albums It’s about both overall, don’t assume
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Post by aazzaabb on Aug 18, 2024 16:34:00 GMT
Michael took way more risks on Dangerous. It’s a more explicit, more adult effort. It’s his true coming of age album and his first without Quincy Jones. He got political with tracks like Why You Wanna Trip On Me and dealt more with his struggles throughout. He’s engaging more with his black heritage in the Remember The Time short film, we get his first on-screen kiss, he’s expressing his masculinity and sexuality in the In The Closet video, race in Black or White, gospel in Keep The Faith, betrayal in Who Is It. Dangerous is an album about masculinity and femininity, loneliness and redemption, sex and romance, love and betrayal. Bad is instant gratification; a collection of hit singles. With Dangerous you have to put the work in as it’s more of an exploration of adult themes. MJ took way more risks with his image also, in the short films and on the tour. I'll jump in to defend Bad here. I know I don't have to sell you on the era, but it's just fun to explore the eras through these discussions. You make some good points regarding Dangerous, but let's not lose sight of what he brought to the table with Bad. -Songwriting: Bad is the album where he almost fully took control of the songwriting, in a way he never would again. It was also his most productive era as a songwriter. And yeah, it was a collection of hits (not that there's anything wrong with that), but that's a huge achievement in and of itself! And it's not like he was writing predictable material. Smooth Criminal is anything but a standard pop song, for example. I think on Bad, he peaked in terms of his ability to write highly accessible, yet unique and original songs (later he'd veer more towards the latter but lose the former slightly). And while Quincy was involved, we now know his involvement was quite limited. I think MJ was more hands-on and in charge with this album than on any other. -Vocals: The evolution from Thriller to Bad was definitely more pronounced than from Bad to Dangerous. The gritty vocal style, the trademark MJ vocal sounds - much of it came about during the Bad era. On Dangerous his voice is a bit deeper, but otherwise it didn't change or evolve much. -Dancing: The same applies here. The development from Thriller to Bad is really quite astounding. When he was already seen as one of the best dancers in the world, he continued to push himself to improve. His moves during this era are further evolved, crisper, more powerful. This was his peak when it came to energy. -Image: Again, the change from Thriller to Bad was quite noteworthy. He clearly wanted to get a bit more of an edge and lose the total goody two shoes image he had with Thriller. Dangerous indeed saw cool further developments, but I again think many aspects of his image and look evolved out of things started during the Bad era. -Short films: Great in both eras, but I'd give this to Bad as well. So many iconic choreographies. It should win based on Smooth Criminal alone. -Clothing: I like both, but I'd say the Bad era looks are more iconic. And no golden leotard. -Live performance: No contest. The Dangerous era was amazing, but overall, I've got to go with Bad. Ha! Great post! But, I think MJ could have made Dangerous into another more pop charts orientated album if it’s what he really wanted but that was never the ultimate goal of the album. During the Dangerous sessions didn’t he already have demos for Blood On The Dance Floor and Earth Song (What About Us?) in the can? He could have focused on them and developed them further. So let’s say he removed the 3 New Jack Swing tracks that everyone seems to shit on; Why You Wanna Trip, Drives Me Wild and Let Her Get Away, replace them with the aforementioned, maybe also include fan club Pepsi promo Someone Put Your Hand Out, streamline the album by removing 2 or 3 tracks and suddenly we have an album more akin to Bad. If he’d roughly followed the Bad template he could have released something like this; Dangerous Remember The Time Jam Who Is It In The Closet Black Or White Will You Be There Someone Put Your Hand Out Give In To Me Blood On The Dance Floor Earth Song Heal The World Perhaps that track sequence doesn’t quite work? But it’s chock full of hits and grooves. Black Or White, Remember The Time, In The Closet, Jam all hit number 1 in various American charts and Blood On The Dance Floor and Earth Song were both number 1 in the UK, Earth Song being the Christmas number 1. In terms of dancing, sure, Bad has way more energy and frenetic popping, locking and spins, but I don’t think the more understated dancing during the Dangerous Tour necessarily held it back. The show became more about the spectacle, ie; the entrance; Brace Yourself teaser, the toaster jump intro in which he’s thrust into the air and MJ in Greek style pose bayed in a backdrop of rain-falling pyrotechnics. He’s already created several iconic images before he’s taken his aviator shades off; and again the removing of his shades becomes another iconic image. The Jam performance with pyro technics is remarkable and one of his greatest achievements. The Choreography with his dancers, the pyro explosions on the chorus and the pose at the end with MJ’s silhouette as blue lights accentuate his image. His Billie Jean performance during the tour is arguably his best and a centrepiece. The changing images on either side of the stage are another part of the spectacle. We see MJ’s eyes, images from the album sleeve, the iconic tiptoes image that’s become his trademark. The ascending angel during Will You Be There. Didn’t always work mind you. The beautiful ballet piece performed by the same dancer who’s the angel, where the earths globe is used to tie in with Heal The World, which was really his main reason for doing another tour; his Heal The World foundation. The tour being a vehicle for his humanitarian work around the world. And of course the jet pack exit after Man In The Mirror, which admittedly hasn’t aged very well because we all know it wasn’t him lol. I would also imagine most people didn’t believing it was him anyway when they were at the actual shows lol. The Dangerous short films perhaps don’t beat the Bad short films but for me, at best they’re as good. The obvious comparison for me would be Remember The Time vs Smooth Criminal. Smooth Criminal is obviously and arguably his best ever, but Remember The Time has that amazing dance break choreography (we all know it’s not all entirely MJ, but nobody else has to know that) and the short film perfectly matches and compliments the song. Black or White is perhaps too Hollywood for some but is it any less corny than Bad? They’re both extremely Michael Jackson. Like Bad it presents MJ in a new and very striking image. He looks iconic and strong in it and his costume is on point. The visuals beautifully compliment the acoustic warmth of the song, the “I’m afraid of no sheets” bridge is very left field the first time you hear it, the morphing faces were innovative at the time and the panther dance is extraordinary in its explicitness and became almost an entirely separate statement from the main portion of the music video section. Jam’s short film gave off hiphop vibes, David Fincher’s directed Who Is It positioned MJ in an almost film noir setting that was something completely different and In The Closet presented MJ in arguably the most masculine way we’ve ever seen him! That moment in which MJ throws his body between Naomi Campbell’s legs and metaphorically penetrates her wasn’t something we were used to seeing from MJ and felt extremely explicit boundary braking. The kiss with Iman in Remember The Time was one thing, but MJ thrust deep between Naomi’s legs was next level. The gold leotard again was boundary pushing. Madonna wore that iconic cone bra on her tour, Prince had been pushing boundaries and playing with his image for years and MJ wanted to do something similar in terms of presentation. The gold leotard played into the concert as a spectacle and it plays with the ideas of whats masculine verses feminine. I would argue that Michael Jackson is the only living male artist who could possibly get away with that look. It pushed his androgyny to the absolute limit, but it works. Well, it works in 92 on a more slimline virile looking Michael Jackson, it works less so in 93 on a slightly bloated, pain medicated, perhaps less confident Michael Jackson. In 92 it was couturier, European high fashion and again even Greek. Whatever failed in the Dangerous era in comparison to the Bad era is where he took more risks with image and sound, and in retrospect that’s what made the Dangerous era so unique. Realistically Bad couldn’t be repeated just like Thriller couldn’t be repeated, and he would have been a lesser artist if he’d even attempted it. Also, Dancing The Dream was a wonderful collection of poems and photos that complimented the era beautifully. Again, people have their criticisms about that book, but with MJ they were always looking for ways to tear him down. And what about the album artwork? Quite simply far and away the best album sleeve he ever had with zero contest!
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