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Post by MattyJam on Nov 6, 2024 7:04:56 GMT
i don't like Dangerous or History albums but in my opinion Michael did ok without him. For real?? |
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Post by mjjfan810 on Nov 6, 2024 10:17:30 GMT
I've got to step in here and say, Quincy deserves his accolades and MJ fans diminishing the importance of his contributions on OTW/Thriller/Bad are, ironically, doing the exact thing they accuse Q of doing.
MJ had a three album run of perfection with Quincy, which, like The Beatles 70s work or Prince's 82-88 output, was lightning in a bottle, a magic formula that will never be repeated.
You cannot deny that MJs quality control went off the deep end after Q left. Dangerous and Invincible are both wildly uneven, of course, there's flashes of brilliance, it's still Michael and the talent never left, but Q wouldn't have indulged half of the creative liberties MJ was taking on his post-Bad output. Overly long albums padded out with filler, pointless spoken word intros, naff rap cameos, two minute long choir intros etc. MJ was a genius, but Dangerous, HIStory (to a lesser degree) and Invincible proved that he badly needed a producer like Q to rein him in at times.
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Post by respect77 on Nov 6, 2024 15:38:31 GMT
Okay, since two days passed and now we are going there...
My problem with Quincy is the pettiness. I have never seen a producer this competitive with his own artist and never seen a producer trying to play down the creative side of his artist this much. For example, I just saw an interview snippet on Instagram, where he is bragging that he suggested the violin parts in DSTYGE and MJ didn't want them. Okay, and you didn't want Smooth Criminal on Bad and wanted to cut the intro of Billie Jean, so your point is? I don't know but it just has this "Me! Me! Me!" vibe to it whenever he is talking about these things. It's not said in a positive or funny, anecdotal way or anything like that. It is said with bitterness, with a competitive edge vs. MJ. With a "look at me, I did all that!" attitude. And I don't know why. With his body of work he really didn't need to be this petty and bitter but he was. He could have had the generosity to give MJ his due credit, but instead he was always playing down his creative side. I have the feeling that this probably contributed to MJ leaving him. Yes, MJ fans are doing the same now - as a reaction to his own credit mongering. Always trying to belittle MJ's creativity "He stole Billie Jean", "Look! Look! Look! I suggested the violins in DSTGYE while MJ didn't want them!" I also noticed whenever he was asked about favorite songs on an MJ album he always went out his way to name those that are not MJ-written. I don't think that was a coincidence, I think it's deliberate. Just not to acknowledge MJ as a creative force. "Singer? Sure. Performer? Sure. But creativity? Don't make me laugh! The creative force was me!" - that's the vibe I was getting from him. Just not to acknowledge that Billie Jean and Beat It made Thriller the album it was, not PYT. I think he would have preferred MJ a bit more dependent on him than he was. Maybe at first he encouraged him to write songs, but I wouldn't be surprised if he regretted it later on because it eventually gave MJ more artistic independence.
And yes, the quality control on OTW, Thriller and Bad was better than on the latter albums and that was Quincy. Kudos to him for that. Also kudos to him for using his connections in the industry to gather the best musicians on MJ's albums. And of course, he was a great producer. No one is denying that. I just wish he wouldn't have ruined that admiration for him in the MJ fandom with his bitterness and pettiness. He probably didn't realize that he harmed himself the most. After all his legacy is forever tied to MJ. So why couldn't he be like George Martin and other famous producers, appreciating the creativity of the artist he was working with? His lack of appreciation for MJ's creativity only undermines the appreciation for him in the MJ fandom. Which is a shame. After all, most of his most successful work is producing MJ-written songs. MJ benefitted from his talents greatly, but he benefitted from MJ's too. He did not "make MJ" - it was a mutually beneficial collaboration. I wonder if a part of Quincy's looking down MJ as a creative force had to do with the fact that MJ wasn't an instrumentalist and wasn't a trained musician, so in his mind he was beneath him. Except this guy "beneath him" wrote most of these hits, without any formal musical education. I'd call that a natural, instinctive talent.
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Post by blackbird on Nov 6, 2024 17:02:10 GMT
We can't deny what Quincy meant overall for Michael. I don't know everything he said abt Michael and others, I catch it from ppl's comments. I couldn't watch nor I will ever watch those interviews. I know that he was also in a trial with the Estate for unpaid royalties.
Michael was a diamond and Q gave him the last finisage, if this word exists in English.
I'm more than grateful that he gave Michael more control in the Bad album.
As Bill Botrell is saying, MJ wanted a more progressive music than ,,his producers,,.
I like Dangerous, and History more. MJ was also trying to keep his status in the music charts and adjusting to the time,s requests and sounds. Many ppl, including some of his engineers said that Quincy encouraged Michael to go further and find his way.
He was a bitter old man,but he appologized in a post in 2018. He put enough ashes on his head by saying that he was a former alcoholic and an old man.
I know that media and haters are using this against MJ. But everything is used against him, in this quest to diminish him.
I chose to celebrate their times together and the fact that he, at that time, was like a father for Michael and he also took his side In interviews during Thriller and Bad era.
As for not forgiving others, there are ppl in Michael's life that did more damage, and for example LaToya is one of the worst, I don't care her situation, you don't sell your own brother no matter what, I would jump to anyone's throaght no matter the consequences when it's about my siblings.
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Post by theunknownmonster on Nov 6, 2024 17:55:51 GMT
Okay, since two days passed and now we are going there... My problem with Quincy is the pettiness. I have never seen a producer this competitive with his own artist and never seen a producer trying to play down the creative side of his artist this much. For example, I just saw an interview snippet on Instagram, where he is bragging that he suggested the violin parts in DSTYGE and MJ didn't want them. Okay, and you didn't want Smooth Criminal on Bad and wanted to cut the intro of Billie Jean, so your point is? I don't know but it just has this "Me! Me! Me!" vibe to it whenever he is talking about these things. It's not said in a positive or funny, anecdotal way or anything like that. It is said with bitterness, with a competitive edge vs. MJ. With a "look at me, I did all that!" attitude. And I don't know why. With his body of work he really didn't need to be this petty and bitter but he was. He could have had the generosity to give MJ his due credit, but instead he was always playing down his creative side. I have the feeling that this probably contributed to MJ leaving him. Yes, MJ fans are doing the same now - as a reaction to his own credit mongering. Always trying to belittle MJ's creativity "He stole Billie Jean", "Look! Look! Look! I suggested the violins in DSTGYE while MJ didn't want them!" I also noticed whenever he was asked about favorite songs on an MJ album he always went out his way to name those that are not MJ-written. I don't think that was a coincidence, I think it's deliberate. Just not to acknowledge MJ as a creative force. "Singer? Sure. Performer? Sure. But creativity? Don't make me laugh! The creative force was me!" - that's the vibe I was getting from him. Just not to acknowledge that Billie Jean and Beat It made Thriller the album it was, not PYT. I think he would have preferred MJ a bit more dependent on him than he was. Maybe at first he encouraged him to write songs, but I wouldn't be surprised if he regretted it later on because it eventually gave MJ more artistic independence. And yes, the quality control on OTW, Thriller and Bad was better than on the latter albums and that was Quincy. Kudos to him for that. Also kudos to him for using his connections in the industry to gather the best musicians on MJ's albums. And of course, he was a great producer. No one is denying that. I just wish he wouldn't have ruined that admiration for him in the MJ fandom with his bitterness and pettiness. He probably didn't realize that he harmed himself the most. After all his legacy is forever tied to MJ. So why couldn't he be like George Martin and other famous producers, appreciating the creativity of the artist he was working with? His lack of appreciation for MJ's creativity only undermines the appreciation for him in the MJ fandom. Which is a shame. After all, most of his most successful work is producing MJ-written songs. MJ benefitted from his talents greatly, but he benefitted from MJ's too. He did not "make MJ" - it was a mutually beneficial collaboration. I wonder if a part of Quincy's looking down MJ as a creative force had to do with the fact that MJ wasn't an instrumentalist and wasn't a trained musician, so in his mind he was beneath him. Except this guy "beneath him" wrote most of these hits, without any formal musical education. I'd call that a natural, instinctive talent. There is a reason MJ fans don't like Quincy, and it goes a lot deeper than being a glory hog. Tbh, that was the least his crimes. He said once he didn't believe MJ had vitiligo. MJ always spoke about Quincy with a lot of love and this is how Q treats him? Who needs enemies when your friend and co-collaborator denies you have an auto-immune condition? |
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Post by respect77 on Nov 6, 2024 18:12:54 GMT
Yeah, that's another thing. MJ always spoke of him with love and respect, he always gave him credit. I really don't get the source of his bitterness towards him.
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Post by blackbird on Nov 6, 2024 20:51:37 GMT
I understand a lot your point of view also, Respect and unknown monster.
I've seen this in my life.
It's human nature, I guess. That ego.
He was after money, his royalties. And as I see when it comes to money and Michael, somth is happening with people. It's like they bite a poisoned apple, most of them.
How they are behaving, well that's say a lot abt their character. It's like I would stop watching IJCSLU live 87 or 88 bc of Sheryl Crow. I know that this one is another cobra, but I chose to put this on the back of my head and enjoy the performance, and see how much she learned to sing from Michael ( how much she evolved since the first dates of the tour to the later ones).
Yeah, it was to expect to see this chart. I've seen some copied articles from one to another in my news feed and Quincy's life story was again a nice field for media to throw a little shade against MJ.
But ppl forget the fact that at 21 yrs old MJ wrote his first manifesto/ plan. That he was the catalyst for what followed.
He set a goal for himself and he made it happen. That's discipline and hard work.
Making these albums with MJ was a test for Q also, bc as I remember ppl were doubting even him, calling him too jazzy.
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Post by butterflies2 on Nov 6, 2024 22:05:25 GMT
I would rather remember him for his success than mj drama at this point, even though I feel mj deserves more credit. It’s already trending that mj didn’t want violins at the beginning of don’t stop till you get enough
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,492 
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Post by TonyR on Nov 7, 2024 8:06:39 GMT
It’s already trending that mj didn’t want violins at the beginning of don’t stop till you get enough Maybe because all the MJ fans are talking about it. |
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Post by respect77 on Nov 7, 2024 8:35:12 GMT
I would rather remember him for his success than mj drama at this point, even though I feel mj deserves more credit. It’s already trending that mj didn’t want violins at the beginning of don’t stop till you get enough And this is why I just had to bring it up. You want MJ fans to be cute and respectful towards Quincy? Well, then he and his fans should be towards MJ too. It's unfortunate that especially after MJ's death every time he opened his mouth about MJ it was some bitter crap like this (before that interestingly he played much cuter, even if, I guess that bitterness he has towards MJ was probably brewing below surface even then). |
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Post by respect77 on Nov 7, 2024 8:37:20 GMT
It’s already trending that mj didn’t want violins at the beginning of don’t stop till you get enough Maybe because all the MJ fans are talking about it. I didn't talk about it. Yet it came up on my feed. |
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Post by elusivemoonwalker on Nov 7, 2024 8:56:54 GMT
I have mixed feelings towards Q, om one hand I don't deny his talent and how visionary he was to reunite so many creative people to do great things but on the other one, I don't respect him for his colossal ego and for the way he seemed to resent and even detest most people associate and remember him the most for his collaboration with Michael since he passed. It wasn't also respectable Quincy attributed himself production credits from Michael or John Barnes. It's highly debatable Michael just co-produced Billie Jean or most of the BAD album, TBH. I guess I'm a bad person for not feeling sad, I just can say my condolences to his loved ones at least. Dito. Quincy,like john landis became what i call the bitter and twisted club in terms of no matter how much success they had away from MJ. The work they did with mike overshadowed everything else. They became know as MJs producer or the thriller video director and that probably peed them off because of all the success they had with other bodies of work. As above 6 of Qs biggest hits were written by MJ. That sums it up. You cant produce a song if it hasnt been written and thriller was what it was because of BJ and beat it (and Rods work which was just as important as Q when you think of the songs he created) Thats before you start talking about the nastiness towards mj in his later years |
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Post by butterflies2 on Nov 14, 2024 0:22:54 GMT
His cause of death was pancreatic cancer
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Post by NatureCriminal7896 on Nov 14, 2024 12:21:03 GMT
so people going to stop listening to Michael early solo albums because of Quincy???
in my opinion you pretty much deleting Michael's at his peak.
i'm one of those people who don't care what album or short film you like but if those people want to do that they can. 😆😆😆
at the end of day Michael worked with Quincy. you can't deny it. 😆😆😆
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Post by NatureCriminal7896 on Nov 14, 2024 12:30:16 GMT
To know Quincy thought Michael didn't have vitiligo is really depends when he said it.
Michael didn't speak out about his vitiligo until 1993. if was after 1993 then yeah Quincy was wrong for that.
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Dec 5, 2020 18:51:15 GMT
Dec 5, 2020 18:51:15 GMT
