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Post by jaywonder on Jan 3, 2018 22:06:47 GMT
I didn't even bring up the brothers, except that what she was claiming wasn't true. She accused me of "poo-pooing" over the brothers claims (which again, never existed). It took PG13 to tell her EXACTLY what I said, that the brothers never claimed Michael ripped them off. Jermaine and Randy wanted to know what charities the money was going to and why the prices were so high. Then she finally backed down. Incidents happened like that ALL THE TIME. She also accused me of being combative yet she was always twisting everything she said.
The Ebony/Jet thing pissed me off. I grew up reading those magazines and while they aren't "hard-hitting" like some of those publications she brought up, those two magazines were HIGH respected in the black community and gave insight on matters that weren't covered in many mainstream press outlets, and it was one of the few that covered the Jacksons regularly. A good friend of mine reiterated that to me, for many many years, those two magazines were some of the only magazines that covered Michael and the family during the period (1975-1982) when others ignored them.
The Ebony/Jet comment and a comment she made to GGBB made me consider if she had a negative attitude towards black people. She was rambling (as usual) and the comment she made was...questionable
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Post by kaeleah on Jan 3, 2018 23:54:18 GMT
Her main go-to "evidence" of Michael's supposed guilt is Jordan Chandler's psychiatric evaluation, which she keeps bringing up. Her opinion is that the psych interview was just too convincing to doubt, and I suppose I can see how it could be perceived that way on the surface if you don't dig deep into the greater context surrounding the allegations, but there are a few things I noticed about it that make it seem less than genuine: *At a few times Jordan uses oddly formal language for a 13-year-old boy, which makes it sound scripted *He repeats some of the same opinions Evan expressed in his taped phone conversation *He seems quite unemotional about allegedly being molested
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Post by jaywonder on Jan 4, 2018 2:26:07 GMT
Don't forget the "They found semen stains on Michael's bed that didn't belong to him" one or the "he had those books of nude boys" excuse
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Post by respect77 on Jan 4, 2018 4:27:24 GMT
How is Jordan's interview slam dunk evidence? It's a ridiculous argument again. It's obvious that to this woman everything would be "convincing" because she WANTS to believe in MJs guilt.
Jordan's interview doesn't only sound extremely odd from the mouth of a 13 yo, but it in fact contains Evan's exact words, expressions and trains of thought by Evan -things that Evan said on the Schwartz tape. How come when the Chandlers claim Evan and Jordan never talked about the alleged abuse beyond Jordan "confessing" to Evan with an almost inaudible "yes"? And why do we ignore a all the circumstances predating that interview and how Evan would isolate Jordan and he didn't let him talk to his mother or anyone for over a month and how he made visits to Rothmans office during that month. Evan and Rothman had plenty of time to coach that kid. There is nothing convincing in an interview where a 13 yo uses the expressions and thoughts of his father with whom he supposedly never talked about the abuse. So he just coincidentally happens to have the exact same thoughts? Sure, that is likely. LOL.
I saw she also uses the hater argument how Dr. Gardner was a renowned psychiatrist who was an expert on spotting false allegations. And? We don't have his conclusion. I wonder why that wasn't leaked together with the interview if it was favourable to the Chandlers? Instead the Chandlers took Jordan to that crook Stan Katz after that. I wouldn't be surprised if Dr. Gardner spotted the oddness of that interview.
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Post by respect77 on Jan 4, 2018 5:54:13 GMT
How is this natural speech by a 13 yo?
When asked what, in his opinion, was wrong with what allegedly was done to him, Jordan was unable to relate to the alleged experience emotionally:
Compare to Evan's thoughts on the Schwartz tapes - and keep in mind that the claim is that Evan and Jordan never talked about the abuse beyond a "yes". So how come Jordan uses the same expressions, same thoughts? Sorry but it screams "coached"! To the point that when Jordan is struggling to answer a question ("why is it a crime?"), he simply starts reciting these same words again. (Not to mention his inability to emotionally attach to the alleged experience. He is talking like he is reciting a school lesson.)
and
and
Back to Jordan's interview:
Sure, this all sounds so natural and not rehearsed at all. LMAO.
This is not about the Dr. Gardner interview but the Dr. Mathis Abrams interview when they first reported Jordan's allegations in August 1993, but I think it is very telling about Jordan's state of mind. It is from the Chandlers' book. This happened after Jordan allegedly first talked in length to ANYBODY about his alleged abuse - since they claim Evan and him never talked about it - which again sounds such a BS claim. If your child was molested wouldn't you want to know details? That again is a totally unnatural story. But by their own claims, Evan and Jordan never talked about it, so the Abrams interview would be the first interview Jordan would talk about the abuse in detail to anyone. His behavior? Well, acc. to the Chandlers' own book:
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Post by Thriller on Jan 4, 2018 23:26:14 GMT
Not only are there instances of clear coaching in Jordan's psychiatric evaluation but, there's also many contradictions. Jordan's answers in bold. How would June know how long the sexual abuse lasted when she was unaware of it? The oral masturbation occurred at Evan's house, the Hideout, June's house and Neverland. Yet according to the DCFS report Diane Dimond obtained: ![](https://s13.postimg.org/4bh0cmal3/Diane1.png) No mention of oral sex occurring in Monaco during his interview with Dr. Gardner. Yet that is where Jordan had stated things 'got out of hand'. His Father was the biggest reason for the 'best thing' that ever happened in his life, yet after the settlement Jordan went to live with his stepmother. That's a bizarre way to treat your Father. I wouldn't be surprised if Dr. Gardner found this a bit odd. Just prior to that was this exchange: One moment he feels she facilitated the abuse, and the next, when pressed on why he's not spending time at June's house, it's because of 'rules'. Then comes: Above, Jordan stated MJ abused him at Evan's house as well as June's. So, if his 'ghost' and 'aura' are still in June's house how can it not also still be in Evan's? So, he shows no anger towards June for 'as people would say, she wanted to pimp me out'. Also 'I tried to tell her one time and she didn't believe me'. Well, Ray's book totally contradicts that. Also: So which is it then? Did Jordan try to tell June and she wouldn't listen? Or did Jordan ask Evan not to tell anyone and June later believed what she was told by a lawyer as 'if Jordie had said it, it must be true'. The whole thing is so flawed that people have to be obtuse to think Jordan is entirely convincing throughout.
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Post by jaywonder on Jan 11, 2018 22:56:13 GMT
I think a lot of people use Michael as a tool to deflect from their own issues or compare their issues with his and come away with some sort of weird reaction to him.
You don't ramble on and on or make a website about someone who claim not to care about or think was a horrible person just because. There's something going on internally
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Post by respect77 on Jan 12, 2018 5:30:59 GMT
Oh definitely, projection is a big, big issue with these people. When you dig deeper it is always about some issue that THEY have in their lives and project onto MJ. A lot of the people in the hater community do seem to have deep seated issues themselves. It is definitely not a healthy hobby to be THAT invested in the hating of someone.
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Post by Snow White on Jan 14, 2018 4:11:16 GMT
I agree with Jay and respect about the projection thing. This deranged Dani woman striked again, this time on a thread she created about articles she found about European stalker fans (I don't mean to insult them but if they followed Michael everywhere they were stalkers) and the thread is called "the true believers in the miracle of Michael Jackson." She claimed she got the help she needed due to the issues she had but her comments, her twisted fantasies about MJ and her projection showed otherwise.
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Post by respect77 on Jan 14, 2018 6:37:51 GMT
The irony of her psychoanalysing stalker fans when her narcissistic rant is so full of psychosis.
First of all, she has a problem with empathy. Empathic people don't play oppression olympics as to who is more deserving to get empathy and sympathy. By her standards any kind of abusive father is better than a distant father which is BS. Say a father pyhiscally or sexually abuses his kids regularly. But should we say those kids should stop whining about their past because they have it better than those kids who don't have a father at all? Such BS!
Actually I would say it is better if a father is not present in someone's life if it is an abusive father. Her issue is a completely different matter. It's sad that her father had mental illness and was taken away. But how do you compare that to being regularly beaten up by a father? None of it is better or worse, they are different matters and I am sure if she had had a father regularly beating her up then her feelings towards him would be different. In that situation kids often wish they'd rather not have a father. She had a loving father, only unfortunately he had mental illness later. That is a very different issue.
To call MJ's pain a "shtick" IS lack of empathy and I am sorry but that is HER issue, not MJ's. Oppression olympics is such a lame thing. There is always someone who has it worse than someone else. So does that mean we should never feel empathy for anyone's pain only for that one person's who absolutely has the worst on this Earth? Because eventually this would lead to that. Someone could say: well, you lost your father due to mental illness, but I had a father who was a psychopath and a serial killer, so stop whining I had it worse than you.
Yes, maybe MJ could have helped himself if he had went to a therapist, but therapy is not all powerful. Dani's case is a good example. Maybe it helped her in other ways but based on her posts I don't feel it made her a better person. Someone with such a level of lack of empathy and projection is still not healthy, I am sorry.
And I am sorry, it also tells a lot about her lack of empathy that she says she would have rather had the shit beat out of her and had been overjoyed rather than not having a father at all. She doesn't know what the hell she is talking about because she cannot empathize with the situation of a child who is physically abused. She can only empathize with her own childhood self - thus with her own issue. None of those kids are overjoyed about just to have a father. She talks so much BS, it is actually upsetting. In fact, many of those kids would rather not have a father - esp. if the abuse is regular and/or extreme.
Plus let's not forget that MJ's abuse wasn't "just" psysical, it was also emotional. While some may want to give Joe an excuse saying he was just a father who wanted the best for his kids and wanted them out of the streets, out of the ghetto and he was just old school, well that doesn't fly when we talk about the emotional abuse. Mocking your child's looks has nothing to do with discipline, I am sorry. And yes, such a thing can scar one for life, especially if they are sensitive. MJ's plastic surgery was a reaction to that (whether it was extreme or not - but then he is not the only one in that family, and not even the only one with such an extreme reaction, see LaToya).
To bash MJ so relentlessly as she does, but give a pass to Joe - who is actually the origin of most of MJ's issues - yeah, that speaks about her lack of understanding of cause and effect. And it appears that due to her own father issues she still takes the side of any father figure - even Joe Jackson's, giving him all kind of passes, while blaming the victim, in this case MJ.
She can declare herself all superior over MJ (or follower fans, for that matter) as a person because she sought help and MJ (apparently) didn't (we don't actually know that for sure), but based on her posts she does not look like a mentally healthy person, moreover does not even look like a good, empathic person. So gimme a break with this "I'm better than him because I sought therapy" crap. It certainly did not make her a better person and these narcissistic rants still expose her as someone with LOTs of issues. So it is ridiculous that she has passing judgement on MJ and his fans as her hobby.
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Post by kaeleah on Jan 14, 2018 7:01:33 GMT
Her utter lack of empathy for Michael is a big part of why I unfriended in FB several months ago. I'm a very sensitive person, so such lack of empathy frankly disgusts me
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Post by Thriller on Jan 14, 2018 10:41:46 GMT
She clearly has an issue with the fact people deal with things differently. Two people can go through the exact same bad experience but deal with it in an entirely different way.
The whole 'at least Joe was there' is ridiculous. He whipped his children for getting dance moves wrong and his children lived in fear of him... but at least he was there! (/s) I bet there were times the children wished he wasn't there.
We see projection again in her post. Of what relevance is her dealing with her issues but MJ not dealing with his perceived issues? They're not related (as in brother and sister). They didn't go through the exact same things. Also, what makes it even more irrelevant is the fact MJ was famous and she isn't.
You can't compare how you as a non famous person deals with an issue to how a famous person does/should. When you're famous things are very, very different.
I see on HistoryContinues people are doing the wisest thing... ignoring her. You can see the clear attention seeking. After people became tired of her in that thread about Wade she returns with 'the true believers in MJ' nonsense. It's comical how haters can't see that they are the ones truly obsessed with MJ.
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Post by Snow White on Jan 14, 2018 17:00:33 GMT
I should say the reason why I quoted her post is because it illustrates perfectly what Jay and respect said. She projects her multiple issues, her angers and frustrations onto MJ no matter if what she went through has nothing to do with Michael's abusive upbringing, I too prefer an absent father than a tyrant that saw his children as money making machines rather than children.
And don't get me started with "Joseph's ways prevented the children to be out in the streets and got them out of poverty" crap, first of all, it's quite irresponsible to have that amount of children if they lived in such poor conditions. Secondly, Michael's talent got them out of Gary and the poverty they lived in. Joseph instilled in Michael hard work and dedication and those are good things in show business but beating the crap out him if he sang the wrong note or missed a dance step was NOT the way, on too of that he ruined his self esteem and I guess All of the siblings because most of them if not all had their nose done.
MJ may had had many issues that steamed from Joe and the way his family treated him but he was one of the most compassionate, sensitive, sweetest, caring human beings that walked this Earth who genuinely wanted to bring joy and happiness to humanity and such a sweet nature in his character helped to make his art more universal and appealing to million of us and that made him a better person even if he didn't sought therapy or the way he dealt with his problems wasn't that healthy at the end of the day than any individual who lacks empathy, compassion towards others and takes pleasure into bringing people down if they don't live up to that individual's expectations.
She can fuck off, I can't feel compassion towards people who take such lengths to lie about others and bring them down even if Michael did absolutely nothing to her.
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Post by jaywonder on Jan 14, 2018 23:38:12 GMT
I should say the reason why I quoted her post is because it illustrates perfectly what Jay and respect said. She projects her multiple issues, her angers and frustrations onto MJ no matter if what she went through has nothing to do with Michael's abusive upbringing, I too prefer an absent father than a tyrant that saw his children as money making machines rather than children. And don't get me started with "Joseph's ways prevented the children to be out in the streets and got them out of poverty" crap, first of all, it's quite irresponsible to have that amount of children if they lived in such poor conditions. Secondly, Michael's talent got them out of Gary and the poverty they lived in. Joseph instilled in Michael hard work and dedication and those are good things in show business but beating the crap out him if he sang the wrong note or missed a dance step was NOT the way, on too of that he ruined his self esteem and I guess All of the siblings because most of them if not all had their nose done. MJ may had had many issues that steamed from Joe and the way his family treated him but he was one of the most compassionate, sensitive, sweetest, caring human beings that walked this Earth who genuinely wanted to bring joy and happiness to humanity and such a sweet nature in his character helped to make his art more universal and appealing to million of us and that made him a better person even if he didn't sought therapy or the way he dealt with his problems wasn't that healthy at the end of the day than any individual who lacks empathy, compassion towards others and takes pleasure into bringing people down if they don't live up to that individual's expectations. She can fuck off, I can't feel compassion towards people who take such lengths to lie about others and bring them down even if Michael did absolutely nothing to her. That comment and other things she's said, dare I say it, makes me think she has a questionable stance on race
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Post by kaeleah on Jan 15, 2018 0:38:10 GMT
She's at it again...this time talking about TMez...
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