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Post by Liberian Girl on Aug 28, 2017 12:28:04 GMT
I have always felt there was a difference in Michael Jackson in 2009 - in terms of pre This Is It (including and around the public announcement) and how he looked during the This Is It rehearsals.
I am referring to, specifically, how Michael looked so glowing, healthy and strong in the press statement regarding the shows, compared to how he looked during TII rehearsals (as seen in numerous photos and also the actual DVD show itself). Now, it could be logically argued that Michael was simply looking more tired out and thinner because of rehearsing for the show, but I have always wondered if there was perhaps more to it. As in, was Michael extremely stressed regarding the TII shows? Was it possible he didn't really want to do the shows but felt pressured to do them, because of financial reasons?
The reason I wonder if there was more going on than just physical tiredness from rehearsing is because he had the same level of rehearsal in the History tour but actually looked fitter and better for the physical energy he mustered. I guess age could come into play, but I just look at some of the images and footage and really feel he looked tired, stressed, extremely thin (thinner than usual for Michael, from what I can tell).
I know some fans don't like playing guess work at his private life. I am not starting this thread to disrespect him, or to say anything negative - more than anything I have always wanted to express my feelings about this in the past because I'd been worried about Michael. I just felt something was "off" during that time.
It could be that he'd signed up for 10 shows, then suddenly was pressured to do 50? Was he eating properly? Was this a time when he expressed to Paris that he felt paranoid about people out to get him?
I am curious to know if anyone else sensed this from back then. I felt he looked full of life during the press conference, and a few weeks later looked so different to me.
If the mods here feel this topic is not right, please feel free to delete. I am a big fan though and no disrespect is intended. I have just always wondered if other fans, like me, felt there was some darkness going on in the background of Michael's life shortly before his death.
Press conference:
This Is It rehearsals/time frame:
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Post by SoCav on Aug 28, 2017 13:35:27 GMT
Well, given what came out during the Murray and AEG trials, I would say it's probably a combination between the drugs, the sleeplessness, the stress, and the weight loss. Michael simply was not well, particularly in June.
With regards to the experience at the time, something did always seem off about the This Is It era as it was taking place imo, but it did not really have to do with Michael's physical appearance. The news that he was going to perform again was very unexpected and leaked out in an odd way (with a drunk Christian Audigier spilling the beans to a reporter). I was extremely excited for the press conference and although I was of course over the moon about the announcement, the whole event was quite weird. Michael was very late and his brief speech felt more somber than exuberant to me, and I was not the only one that felt this way. Then came the day of the ticket sales, during which additional show dates suddenly kept popping up throughout the morning - it just all seemed very badly organized. Later on, the first couple of shows were delayed, so that they would have more time to rehearse. The organization of these shows was very messy and with rumours swirling around about Michael only having agreed to 10 shows and being unhappy, something did seem off. Of course, most fans (including myself) were so excited that we basically ignored or downplayed these things.
I do remember some discussion about Michael's appearance in the lead up to the shows. Pictures of Michael out and about would show up every now and then. Some fans were concerned about the way he looked in certain pics (always the ones taken at Klein's office, which given what we know now about what was going there should not come as a surprise...), but I remember most actually saying he looked better than he had in ages, especially when he ditched the James Brown wigs and opted for curls again. I know that fans that followed Michael around LA at the time were worried about his behavior and appearance, but the wider fan base had no idea about this and just saw some pictures of him posing with fans, looking happy and smiling. We did not fully realize how thin he had become and that his behavior was at times uncharacteristic. Everybody was just increasingly excited as opening night drew closer.
So yeah, the entire era felt rather surreal and strange, but I do not think it had to do with Michael's appearance all that much. Of course we got to see much more of him after he passed when This Is It was released. I think he looks good in the early rehearsals. In the June 23/24 rehearsals he is clearly way too thin, but besides that he still looked pretty good to me. But naturally we did only get to see the best footage of him at the time...
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Post by Russg on Aug 28, 2017 13:58:06 GMT
Well, given what came out during the Murray and AEG trials, I would say it's probably a combination between the drugs, the sleeplessness, the stress, and the weight loss. Michael simply was not well, particularly in June. With regards to the experience at the time, something did always seem off about the This Is It era as it was taking place imo, but it did not really have to do with Michael's physical appearance. The news that he was going to perform again was very unexpected and leaked out in an odd way (with a drunk Christian Audigier spilling the beans to a reporter). I was extremely excited for the press conference and although I was of course over the moon about the announcement, the whole event was quite weird. Michael was very late and his brief speech felt more somber than exuberant to me, and I was not the only one that felt this way. Then came the day of the ticket sales, during which additional show dates suddenly kept popping up throughout the morning - it just all seemed very badly organized. Later on, the first couple of shows were delayed, so that they would have more time to rehearse. The organization of these shows was very messy and with rumours swirling around about Michael only having agreed to 10 shows and being unhappy, something did seem off. Of course, most fans (including myself) were so excited that we basically ignored or downplayed these things. I do remember some discussion about Michael's appearance in the lead up to the shows. Pictures of Michael out and about would show up every now and then. Some fans were concerned about the way he looked in certain pics (always the ones taken at Klein's office, which given what we know now about what was going there should not come as a surprise...), but I remember most actually saying he looked better than he had in ages, especially when he ditched the James Brown wigs and opted for curls again. I know that fans that followed Michael around LA at the time were worried about his behavior and appearance, but the wider fan base had no idea about this and just saw some pictures of him posing with fans, looking happy and smiling. We did not fully realize how thin he had become and that his behavior was at times uncharacteristic. Everybody was just increasingly excited as opening night drew closer. So yeah, the entire era felt rather surreal and strange, but I do not think it had to do with Michael's appearance all that much. Of course we got to see much more of him after he passed when This Is It was released. I think he looks good in the early rehearsals. In the June 23/24 rehearsals he is clearly way too thin, but besides that he still looked pretty good to me. But naturally we did only get to see the best footage of him at the time... I'd be curious to know the timeframe of the rehearsals, and which song was performed on which date etc. To me, he looks pretty good doing TWYMMF and the J5 medley. He looks fuller faced and healthier. I think he looks very thin and ill looking during Smooth Criminal, WBSS and Earth Song (which I believe was on the June 24th, the last song he rehearsed).
Does anyone know the dates of the performances?
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Post by SoCav on Aug 28, 2017 14:03:49 GMT
It's been so long but the shots where he is wearing the blazer with the red shirt (e.g. Jam, TDCAU, parts of Human Nature, Beat It) were all from June 23rd, if I am not mistaken. I think the J5 Medley and TWYMMF were as well.
Thriller and Earth Song were, I think, the only songs containing footage from the 24th?
You mention WBSS, but I that was shot earlier, before they moved to Staples Center.
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Post by mjjfan810 on Aug 28, 2017 17:36:10 GMT
I think MJ was railroaded into the whole thing for financial reasons (both his own and for others who saw him as a potential cash cow). By 2009, a promoter like AEG must've looked upon Michael as The Holy Grail of signings, possessing great untapped potential in the live market. Here you have the worlds most famous living entertainer, who hasn't set foot on a stage to perform in eight years and hasn't toured in twelve. The demand was huge and AEG knew that it would be and took full advantage of that, at the expense of Michael's personal wishes and wellbeing. And MJ paid the ultimate price for their greed.
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Post by SmoothGangsta on Sept 9, 2017 19:52:10 GMT
The concerts were definitely organised mainly for financial reasons imo. The fact MJ was drunk before the press conference and apparently said he was scared nobody would be there really shows how much anxiety he had about performing again. This is totally understandable of course knowing what he had gone through years earlier. I think he was functional before the shows actually became a thing, after that it was a quick downward spiral. It's a shame, I wish things could have happened differently.
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Post by Russg on Sept 10, 2017 6:35:53 GMT
He looks so emaciated in that picture, it's really sad. I remember back in 2009, during the months leading up to his passing, saying that I was concerned about his weight and that he wasn't looking physically strong enough to see this through, and I got lynch-mobbed by loads of fans, who obviously were more concerned with MJ the pop star than they were MJ the human being. How anyone can look at this picture and not see a man that is drastically underweight is beyond me.
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Post by HIStoric on Sept 10, 2017 10:33:26 GMT
He looks so emaciated in that picture, it's really sad. I remember back in 2009, during the months leading up to his passing, saying that I was concerned about his weight and that he wasn't looking physically strong enough to see this through, and I got lynch-mobbed by loads of fans, who obviously were more concerned with MJ the pop star than they were MJ the human being. How anyone can look at this picture and not see a man that is drastically underweight is beyond me. ^^He looks even worse in that image because the aspect ratio is off, it's thinner than it's meant to be and thus making Michael appear even skinnier/lankier than he was. Here is the same photo but at it's correct aspect ratio: Some fans were concerned about the way he looked in certain pics (always the ones taken at Klein's office, which given what we know now about what was going there should not come as a surprise...) What was going on there? Was it something related to trying to solve his sleeping issues or something surgery wise?
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Post by SmoothGangsta on Sept 10, 2017 11:13:52 GMT
^ He still looks painfully thin, so I don't know what adjusting the aspect ratio is supposed to prove. Also, wasn't he just going there to get high? I'm not sure though.
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Post by MattyJam on Sept 10, 2017 12:18:19 GMT
^ He still looks painfully thin, so I don't know what adjusting the aspect ratio is supposed to prove. Also, wasn't he just going there to get high? I'm not sure though. I don't think it's fair to say he kept going there "to get high" as if he was some kind of recreational drug user. I heard he kept attending Klein's office to have propofol due to his sleep depravation. He would be there for 5-8 hours at a time, which suggests that this is most probably true. I know that's probably what you meant, but your terminology makes MJ sound like a junkie of recreational drugs, which he was not. There is a difference I think, when people are taking heavy duty drugs for a recognised medical condition.
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,417
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Post by TonyR on Sept 10, 2017 12:55:06 GMT
I don't like to think about it to be honest. I can only imagine what 2005-2009 must have been like for him and just hope his kids brought him happiness and although the thought of doing 50 shows may have helped kill him, I take solace in the fact that he saw how loved & wanted he still was. I imagine his paranoia andthe press made him believe he was hated & a figure of ridicule when in reality he still had millions of fans and millions more casual ones who wanted to see him perform again.
If I take This Is It at face value, then I see glimmers of the old, confident funny Michael I loved.
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Post by HIStoric on Sept 10, 2017 14:09:52 GMT
^ He still looks painfully thin, so I don't know what adjusting the aspect ratio is supposed to prove. Also, wasn't he just going there to get high? I'm not sure though. I know he looked very thin, im just pointing out the image shown wasn't the most accurate one because it was somewhat distorted.
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