barbee
Wondering Who
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Post by barbee on Sept 2, 2018 22:27:58 GMT
So am I understanding this correctly? Are the Cascio's implicated in this lawsuit also? To be honest, this whole thing makes me feel very uneasy. The Cascio brothers have already betrayed MJ once. What's to stop them pulling a Wade Robson? They can't. Robson tried everything on that. Sue Michael. Sue the Estate. Sue the businesses. Statute of Limitations won out. Anything new would be thrown out based on his case. No one will try.
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barbee
Wondering Who
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Post by barbee on Sept 2, 2018 22:47:41 GMT
Didn't McCain and Branca disagree on whether to include the songs or not? I can't remember which one of them was for and which was against, but if even the men running his estate can't agree on the songs authenticity, that doesn't exactly give much credibility to the theory that they were innocently duped into believing these songs were MJ. This says to me that they knew the songs were questionnable and went ahead with them regardless. I think it was McClain who said it wasn't MJ. So yeah, even one of the two executors (and the one who actually does music) saying it wasn't MJ should have been enough to sideline these songs. I think there is still a difference between knowing they were fake and suspecting they might be fake. This doesn't excuse the Estate's disrespect of MJ and that they put out songs that at the very least were suspect, but I guess legally that's what makes the difference. If Cascio went to the Estate saying "I created these fake songs,let's pass them on as MJ songs" that's when the Estate could have been held complicit in the fraud, I guess. But I don't think that's what happened. Cascio probably told them as well that this was MJ. I honestly believe the Estate got totally duped. The Cassio family and Michael go way back. And who said Weizman's report was fraudulent. He got Greg, Matt, and Bruce to listen and they said they thought it was him. I take their word over anybody. I'm just irritated they went with this anti-slapp thing. Personally, I think they should sue the Cascios themselves. That way they could save face with the fans and remove the songs.
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respect77
The Legend Continues
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Post by respect77 on Sept 3, 2018 4:02:18 GMT
I think it was McClain who said it wasn't MJ. So yeah, even one of the two executors (and the one who actually does music) saying it wasn't MJ should have been enough to sideline these songs. I think there is still a difference between knowing they were fake and suspecting they might be fake. This doesn't excuse the Estate's disrespect of MJ and that they put out songs that at the very least were suspect, but I guess legally that's what makes the difference. If Cascio went to the Estate saying "I created these fake songs,let's pass them on as MJ songs" that's when the Estate could have been held complicit in the fraud, I guess. But I don't think that's what happened. Cascio probably told them as well that this was MJ. I honestly believe the Estate got totally duped. The Cassio family and Michael go way back. And who said Weizman's report was fraudulent. He got Greg, Matt, and Bruce to listen and they said they thought it was him. I take their word over anybody. I'm just irritated they went with this anti-slapp thing. Personally, I think they should sue the Cascios themselves. That way they could save face with the fans and remove the songs. There were six producers and it's not true they all agreed it was MJ. Cory Rooney even said it publicly that Weitzman's statement was false. Taryll said that too.
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Post by HIStoric on Sept 3, 2018 6:19:07 GMT
I honestly believe the Estate got totally duped. The Cassio family and Michael go way back. And who said Weizman's report was fraudulent. He got Greg, Matt, and Bruce to listen and they said they thought it was him. I take their word over anybody. I'm just irritated they went with this anti-slapp thing. Personally, I think they should sue the Cascios themselves. That way they could save face with the fans and remove the songs. There were six producers and it's not true they all agreed it was MJ. Cory Rooney even said it publicly that Weitzman's statement was false. Taryll said that too. I read somewhere that some of them raised issues with the acapellas because tendencies of Michael were completely absent - foot stomping and especially finger snapping.
And on a separate note, I also remember Cascio stated he had no other recordings because they ran out of hard drive space (which is a BS excuse given how wealthy both MJ/Cascio are and how cheap hard drives were in 2007), but also that Michael was apparently sooo happy with his performance he just told Cascio to delete every single other remnant of any unused recordings.
This is quite an unusual behaviour for someone who, despite having a sporadic archive at the end of the day, is known to have documented himself quite heavily at the time of production. Completely ignoring the video aspect, there are hours worth of alternative takes, unreleased songs, demos in various states and even studio chatter that Michael has kept over the years - even with songs where he gave a far better performance - so why on earth would he tell Cascio to wipe all evidence of past recordings?
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respect77
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Post by respect77 on Sept 3, 2018 6:31:47 GMT
There were six producers and it's not true they all agreed it was MJ. Cory Rooney even said it publicly that Weitzman's statement was false. Taryll said that too. I read somewhere that some of them raised issues with the acapellas because tendencies of Michael were completely absent - foot stomping and especially finger snapping.
And on a separate note, I also remember Cascio stated he had no other recordings because they ran out of hard drive space (which is a BS excuse given how wealthy both MJ/Cascio are and how cheap hard drives were in 2007), but also that Michael was apparently sooo happy with his performance he just told Cascio to delete every single other remnant of any unused recordings.
This is quite an unusual behaviour for someone who, despite having a sporadic archive at the end of the day, is known to have documented himself quite heavily at the time of production. Completely ignoring the video aspect, there are hours worth of alternative takes, unreleased songs, demos in various states and even studio chatter that Michael has kept over the years - even with songs where he gave a far better performance - so why on earth would he tell Cascio to wipe all evidence of past recordings? MJ never had a practice of deleting work material if he was satisfied with the end result, so this is yet another excuse by the Cascios that stinks.
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Post by SoCav on Sept 3, 2018 9:12:40 GMT
I honestly believe the Estate got totally duped. The Cassio family and Michael go way back. And who said Weizman's report was fraudulent. He got Greg, Matt, and Bruce to listen and they said they thought it was him. I take their word over anybody. I'm just irritated they went with this anti-slapp thing. Personally, I think they should sue the Cascios themselves. That way they could save face with the fans and remove the songs. They may have gotten duped initially, but they willfully ignored tons of red flags. And Weitzman's statement was deceptive. You can hear Bruce Swedien himself say "it sounds like him but there's no guarantee" at 1.21 in the Faking Michael trailer I posted on the previous page. That's very different from what Weitzman said in his statement ("They (the producers they invited to the listening session) all confirmed that the vocal was definitely Michael"). And that's just Bruce. The statement also listed Michael Prince as one of the producers and he says in the trailer that he told them at the time that there were too many audio dead ends for Cascio/Porte to be telling the truth. And of course we already knew Cory Rooney and Taryll said the vocals were fake too. Taryll says Teddy Riley told him the same thing. Blatant lies. And this is just based on the limited information we have. I'm sure when Damien releases his podcast we'll hear more.
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Post by SoCav on Sept 3, 2018 9:21:16 GMT
And on a separate note, I also remember Cascio stated he had no other recordings because they ran out of hard drive space (which is a BS excuse given how wealthy both MJ/Cascio are and how cheap hard drives were in 2007), but also that Michael was apparently sooo happy with his performance he just told Cascio to delete every single other remnant of any unused recordings. This is quite an unusual behaviour for someone who, despite having a sporadic archive at the end of the day, is known to have documented himself quite heavily at the time of production. Completely ignoring the video aspect, there are hours worth of alternative takes, unreleased songs, demos in various states and even studio chatter that Michael has kept over the years - even with songs where he gave a far better performance - so why on earth would he tell Cascio to wipe all evidence of past recordings? They used tons of obviously ridiculous excuses, this just being one of them. Remember that they also tried to blame it on 'processing' - even though anyone who has ever worked with Melodyne can tell you that it does not change your voice to sound like an entirely different person who even speaks in a different dialect. Remember that guy NathanJay who edited together an MJ vocal track using old samples for a song he'd made himself? That's extreme processing and the vocal is full of nasty artefacts, yet the voice still sounds like Michael's. The most ridiculous one I heard was from Frank Cascio when a number of French fans raised the issue with him during a Q&A for his book tour. Stumbling over his words, he settled on the bizarre explanation that the version of Breaking News that was streamed online ahead of the album's release was "the wrong mix" - even though it was obviously identical to the album version.
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respect77
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Post by respect77 on Sept 3, 2018 9:35:16 GMT
And on a separate note, I also remember Cascio stated he had no other recordings because they ran out of hard drive space (which is a BS excuse given how wealthy both MJ/Cascio are and how cheap hard drives were in 2007), but also that Michael was apparently sooo happy with his performance he just told Cascio to delete every single other remnant of any unused recordings. This is quite an unusual behaviour for someone who, despite having a sporadic archive at the end of the day, is known to have documented himself quite heavily at the time of production. Completely ignoring the video aspect, there are hours worth of alternative takes, unreleased songs, demos in various states and even studio chatter that Michael has kept over the years - even with songs where he gave a far better performance - so why on earth would he tell Cascio to wipe all evidence of past recordings? They used tons of obviously ridiculous excuses, this just being one of them. Remember that they also tried to blame it on 'processing' - even though anyone who has ever worked with Melodyne can tell you that it does not change your voice to sound like an entirely different person who even speaks in a different dialect. Remember that guy NathanJay who edited together an MJ vocal track using old samples for a song he'd made himself? That's extreme processing and the vocal is full of nasty artefacts, yet the voice still sounds like Michael's. The most ridiculous one I heard was from Frank Cascio when a number of French fans raised the issue with him during a Q&A for his book tour. Stumbling over his words, he settled on the bizarre explanation that the version of Breaking News that was streamed online ahead of the album's release was "the wrong mix" - even though it was obviously identical to the album version. Don't forget the "MJ sang in a PVC pipe" excuse. LOL.
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Post by SoCav on Sept 4, 2018 13:14:42 GMT
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respect77
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Post by respect77 on Sept 4, 2018 15:08:08 GMT
Nice to see it on a diagram what I just called a goat-like vibrato. The Cascio singer's vibrato is so annoying. Like every word finished in a freaking goat-vibrato. MJ never did that.
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respect77
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Post by respect77 on Sept 4, 2018 15:33:05 GMT
This is interesting too:
"The singer in Monster that is considered to be the same singer who sings Breaking News uses a dialect form not known to occur in any Michael Jackson song over a span of 39 years – his entire recorded history. This observation is especially significant because the form used is an allophonic variation of the type that is a basic feature of someone’s dialect, not normally subject to conscious variation."
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Post by HIStoric on Sept 5, 2018 1:11:53 GMT
This is insane. It’s great to have an expert finally breakdown in technical terms why it definitely isn’t Michael, really helpful for fans like me who know it isn’t Michael but aren’t technically proficient enough to say much apart from “listen! It doesn’t sound like him!” y’know?
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Post by SmoothGangsta on Sept 5, 2018 5:49:44 GMT
This is insane. It’s great to have an expert finally breakdown in technical terms why it definitely isn’t Michael, really helpful for fans like me who know it isn’t Michael but aren’t technically proficient enough to say much apart from “listen! It doesn’t sound like him!” y’know? People who think it's MJ are still dismissing it because we haven't seen any of the estate's reports that they definitely did.
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respect77
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Post by respect77 on Sept 5, 2018 9:45:01 GMT
This is insane. It’s great to have an expert finally breakdown in technical terms why it definitely isn’t Michael, really helpful for fans like me who know it isn’t Michael but aren’t technically proficient enough to say much apart from “listen! It doesn’t sound like him!” y’know? People who think it's MJ are still dismissing it because we haven't seen any of the estate's reports that they definitely did. It has been up to the Estate to show the expert report they supposedly did. Instead they haven't even named the expert. Did they really do anything at all? I know how court cases work. Usually both sides can have an expert in their corner. I suppose if it goes to Court Cascio too will have his expert saying it's MJ. But I think at the very least this proves that it's not some "tin foil hat" level conspiracy theory by fans like Roger Friedman (buddy of the Cascios) dismissively tweeted the other day. No big name expert will give his name to a "tin foil hat" theory.
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Post by SmoothGangsta on Sept 5, 2018 11:15:41 GMT
People who think it's MJ are still dismissing it because we haven't seen any of the estate's reports that they definitely did. It has been up to the Estate to show the expert report they supposedly did. Instead they haven't even named the expert. Did they really do anything at all? I know how court cases work. Usually both sides can have an expert in their corner. I suppose if it goes to Court Cascio too will have his expert saying it's MJ. But I think at the very least this proves that it's not some "tin foil hat" level conspiracy theory by fans like Roger Friedman (buddy of the Cascios) dismissively tweeted the other day. No big name expert will give his name to a "tin foil hat" theory. Someone on another forum bought up to me that sony may not even help the Cascio's. They may not give them any reports they did and leave them to fend for themselves.
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