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Post by dancingmjsdream on Oct 3, 2019 15:14:05 GMT
^ yes that's what bothered me as well. I asked them: how can a person think of him as a child molester and then listen to songs like heal the world? If you truly believe he is guilty you shouln't support his music at all imo
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Post by amaya on Nov 3, 2019 22:10:49 GMT
I made the mistake of watching a Grunge video about musicians that had their career destroyed by a single moment. Michael came up, and as soon as I got the vibe it was going to be super negative, I fast-forwarded. As I fast forwarded it showed previews of what I was skipping and of course, there were clips of LN. Not sure if they left it neutral by saying the movie is questionable; I didn't try to find out but knowing how these big clickbait producers are... I was so upset I blacklisted Grunge using a Youtube browser plugin. Too bad it can't be done on my TV.
I know, I know "it's been debunked" etc... It just makes me sad that so many ignorant people are going to click on these clickbaity videos for the remainder of human existence, will see that part of the video, and take it as fact. Oh yeah, they had Janet in there too because of the whole Super Bowl thing, so that was nice.
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Post by ShadowDeeps on Nov 4, 2019 2:53:32 GMT
I had a big discussion (we kept it friendly though) this evening with my flatmates. I really like them, but it was so hard to deal with the basic bullshit (MJ bleached his skin, Leaving Neverland is true, he was weird but his music was so great that we should seperate the man from the art) etc etc. I tried to do my best and give them some facts, and to not sound like a MJ fanatic, which isn't that easy since they know I'm a big fan š It was even harder since I was a bit drunk and angry, I just hate that there are so many misconceptions about him š„ REPLY- I have no idea why, but I can't seem to type in the correct spot below. Sorry! Anyway.....I've been through that exact scenario recently with some co-workers. What's weird is that they were all saying that they believe MJ did these things but they could still be fans of his music. I was on the other side saying not only do I not think he did these things but I could NEVER still be a fan if I thought he did. Same here. I recently happened upon an instructor who teaches an IT course for a living at a local college I used to attend. Somehow the topic of Michael Jackson came up and he didnāt hesitate to mention MJ was still on his MP3 listing, And not just anywhere, #1 on his listing, with āThrillerā (the song) taking the aforesaid spot. He went on about how much of an inspiration MJ was to the world of music, entertainment, trends, and popular culture. So I was starting to feel at ease about the public perception of MJ again... until he likened a troublesome acquaintance he knew to MJ in the context of sexual harassment and deemed MJ a nonce. Whilst I didnāt become confrontational or inundate him with information regarding MJās innocence at that point, Iām pretty sure the look I gave him told him how I felt. There was definitely an awkward silence and the conversation went adrift from there. I concluded he was just another fellow who āseparated the art from the artistā or some other nonsense. He also spoke of R Kelly producing decent music but (correctly) noted there was hard evidence against him and the claims of misconduct were no longer alleged, in his case. It still infuriates me that in October and even here in November, many months after the doCumEnTArY was aired, streamed, and thoroughly falsified, people are still subscribing to the notion that MJ ādid itā when thereās an overwhelming wealth of exculpatory evidence which demonstrably shows otherwise. I understand some people will believe it no matter what and morons will always be morons; Iām not particularly concerned with changing individual minds and people are entitled to believe as they wish. I just feel itās ultimately unfair for MJ to be ārememberedā this way (erroneously), as being guilty of the most heinous crime known to society. Itās true MJ wasnāt perfect (no one is), but he gave so much of himself and provided more charity for the world than any other famous person, and not just to virtue signal (as is so prevalent in todayās culture), but because he truly cared. And yet, he was by far the most vilified, misunderstood, crucified, chastised, ridiculed, and dehumanized celebrity in history, even to this day, even in death. Iāll never understand why.
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Yaza
Wondering Who
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Post by Yaza on Nov 5, 2019 0:43:34 GMT
^ yes that's what bothered me as well. I asked them: how can a person think of him as a child molester and then listen to songs like heal the world? If you truly believe he is guilty you shouln't support his music at all imo His music is so good that they canāt give it up, they come up with this lame āseparate the art from the artistā angle to justify their listening.
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Post by MattyJam on Jan 20, 2020 19:29:42 GMT
Ugh, there's a colleague on my FB who posted shit about MJ during LN, and keeps posting supposedly funny memes making fun of MJs guilt. I try to be a rational adult about it and not demonise the people in my real life who think MJ was guilty (this woman is the only one I've come across), but I kinda want to slap her! I settled for just posting a Youtube link to Square One on her FB page. This stuff still irks me, but I know I should be mature and not have the mindset of a butthurt teenager, but it feels so much more than juvenile Leave-Britney-Alone style fan hysterics when it comes to issues of false accusations and the posthumous defiling of an innocent man by morally-bankrupt leeches.
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Post by ShadowDeeps on Jan 20, 2020 20:33:33 GMT
Somewhat unrelated, but Iāve been mulling it over lately and the more I think about it, the more it feels as though the animosity for MJ and the misinformation against him is organized, calculated, and premeditated (IOW: deliberate), since long before LN.
He received one of the greatest standing ovations in recorded history at the 2006 WMAs and 99.9% of the tabloids and the media collectively reported the next day he was booed offstage. That nonsensical BS is even in the āhistoryā books. Even though those who were there and actual footage depicts otherwise. Organized, calculated, and premeditated.
In 1993, Corey Feldman gave the SBPD (and LAPD?) a listing of names regarding Hollywood predators who abused him. But they completely ignored him and only took an interest in pursuing MJ. Organized, calculated, and premeditated.
Jason Francia was quite literally bullied and pressured into making an extremely dubitable accusation against MJ by the policeās REID tactics when they just wouldnāt take no for an answer. Organized, calculated, and premeditated.
MJ received possibly THE most unfair trial coverage in the history of the American media (barring E! News, and the fact that back then, dissenting opinions were somewhat allowed regarding sex abuse allegations). Hardly anyone bothered to report what actually went on inside the courtroom and almost all presumed upon his guilt. They were already prepared to convict him before the jury verdict and would not accept the actual unanimous verdict itself (only those who had financially driven reasons to āchange their mindsā would sing a different tune later on... sound familiar?), chalking it up to ācelebrity justiceā or some other baffling nonsense. Organized, calculated, and premeditated. That trial killed MJ. It broke his spirit. He was never the same after that.
In 2016, upon the seventh anniversary of MJās passing, exceptionally doubtful ānewsā articles spread like wildfire claiming that child āpornā was found in MJās home among other ādisturbingā anomalies. Ron Zonen, the prosecutor of the 2005 trial himself, had to set the record straight yet again that nothing untoward or illicit regarding such material was ever found on MJās premises. Most of the news āoutletsā who published such preposterous articles didnāt retract anything, of course. Organized, calculated, and premeditated.
During this time period and over the next three years, LN was made in full secrecy, with Dan Reed interviewing MJās latest, money hungry accusers (who previously and voluntarily defended him under oath without any uncertainty) and their families at length. Dan Reed chose to completely ignore any exculpatory evidence and only interviewed the prosecution for the movie, totally snubbing the defense (which is quite easy to do when the subject of the movie in question is dead and so cannot defend himself or sue for defamation). LN received the biggest PR, hype, and promotion Iāve ever seen for a film about sex abuse allegations in history, bar none. As a result of the widespread acceptance and unwillingness to question anything about LNās narrative, largely due to the current climate, and due to the aforesaid promotion (and because of HBO sponsoring award shows left and right), LN has had fifteen nominations in total, five of which are Emmys, and six awards to this day, one of which is an Emmy. Surviving R Kelly has some hype and promotion, but only receives four nominations (one of which is an Emmy) and zero awards. Untouchable, the Harvey Weinstein documentary, has no coverage at all, and has zero awards and zero nominations. Organized, calculated, and premeditated.
Those are only some examples, but I cannot think of any other legacy artist who has been defamed and slandered to this extent, even in death. Thereās no one else. MJ, whilst not perfect (no one is), always gave of himself to the world, even when the world did not treat him particularly well. Itās great that he isnāt ācancelledā like we feared, but I really hope the world does not forget all the good MJ did for it because of LN. Dan Reed, HBO, Oprah, the mass media, whoever else, no one should have that kind of power, especially since MJ is no longer with us, to just rewrite history, and for what reason? To be relatable and relevant? For $$$? To get āyoursā since itās ātimeā for you to? To engage audiences on a global level (like MJ did? *cough*)? To supposedly raise awareness for CSA even though there are many other ways to do so? This is certainly not about those āboysā telling their ātruthsā because there is no such thing as ātheir truthā or āhis truthā or āher truthā. There is only ONE truth and it is THE truth.
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Post by respect77 on Jan 21, 2020 4:18:37 GMT
Ugh, there's a colleague on my FB who posted shit about MJ during LN, and keeps posting supposedly funny memes making fun of MJs guilt. I try to be a rational adult about it and not demonise the people in my real life who think MJ was guilty (this woman is the only one I've come across), but I kinda want to slap her! I settled for just posting a Youtube link to Square One on her FB page. This stuff still irks me, but I know I should be mature and not have the mindset of a butthurt teenager, but it feels so much more than juvenile Leave-Britney-Alone style fan hysterics when it comes to issues of false accusations and the posthumous defiling of an innocent man by morally-bankrupt leeches. Does she know you are a fan? If so, I would just block her. And no, I don't think that's being juvenile. She's the juvenile one, deliberately trying to get under your skin.
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Post by MattyJam on Jan 21, 2020 7:49:06 GMT
Ugh, there's a colleague on my FB who posted shit about MJ during LN, and keeps posting supposedly funny memes making fun of MJs guilt. I try to be a rational adult about it and not demonise the people in my real life who think MJ was guilty (this woman is the only one I've come across), but I kinda want to slap her! I settled for just posting a Youtube link to Square One on her FB page. This stuff still irks me, but I know I should be mature and not have the mindset of a butthurt teenager, but it feels so much more than juvenile Leave-Britney-Alone style fan hysterics when it comes to issues of false accusations and the posthumous defiling of an innocent man by morally-bankrupt leeches. Does she know you are a fan? If so, I would just block her. And no, I don't think that's being juvenile. She's the juvenile one, deliberately trying to get under your skin. She does know I'm a fan and we had a lot of back and fourth about the subject when LN was in the news. I did consider blocking her, but then another part of me doesn't like her posting this shit unchallenged.
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Post by aazzaabb on Jan 21, 2020 18:43:30 GMT
Does she know you are a fan? If so, I would just block her. And no, I don't think that's being juvenile. She's the juvenile one, deliberately trying to get under your skin. She does know I'm a fan and we had a lot of back and fourth about the subject when LN was in the news. I did consider blocking her, but then another part of me doesn't like her posting this shit unchallenged. Is she aiming this at you? Thereās always at least one knobhead at work!
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Post by russtcb on Feb 6, 2020 3:37:23 GMT
Chiming into this thread for the first time in while. I know this is way over simplifying the situation, but when it comes to Michael, I've adopted a "consider the source" attitude and it's worked wonders for me. I took a step back and evaluated the friends I have that are free thinking and those that choose to have their "facts" spoofed to that them. Once I separated them in my mind, I got way less upset over the people who believe Michael was a bad person. I even know one person who said to me "OK, even if he didn't commit crimes against children, you do know that he wasn't the super nice guy you make him out to be, right?" He said this to me like *I* was the idiot for wanting to believe in someone or something. In that moment I realized it's better to believe in the good at all times. I think Michael would be proud of me for that or at least I hope so. I'm pretty drunk on a random Wednesday night, so I sincerely hope what I'm trying to say makes sense
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Post by respect77 on Feb 6, 2020 4:25:52 GMT
"OK, even if he didn't commit crimes against children, you do know that he wasn't the super nice guy you make him out to be, right?" Gotta love it when people get on their high horse and condescendingly declare fans are stupid to believe such things. As if their "knowledge" about MJ, that comes 99 percent from tabloids makes them experts over fans who have closely observed this guy from all angles for decades. Yes, by all credible accounts MJ was THAT super nice guy!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2020 8:40:05 GMT
Chiming into this thread for the first time in while. I know this is way over simplifying the situation, but when it comes to Michael, I've adopted a "consider the source" attitude and it's worked wonders for me. I took a step back and evaluated the friends I have that are free thinking and those that choose to have their "facts" spoofed to that them. Once I separated them in my mind, I got way less upset over the people who believe Michael was a bad person. I even know one person who said to me "OK, even if he didn't commit crimes against children, you do know that he wasn't the super nice guy you make him out to be, right?" He said this to me like *I* was the idiot for wanting to believe in someone or something. In that moment I realized it's better to believe in the good at all times. I think Michael would be proud of me for that or at least I hope so. I'm pretty drunk on a random Wednesday night, so I sincerely hope what I'm trying to say makes sense That last sentence. Gorgeous.
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Post by butterflies on Feb 29, 2020 18:12:14 GMT
I was having a little bit of anxiety about what people will say if or when the trial begins. Itās just really unfair that he has accusers again
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2020 18:39:11 GMT
I was having a little bit of anxiety about what people will say if or when the trial begins. Itās just really unfair that he has accusers again Well whatever is said, you can take some comfort in that a trial has 2 sides, unlike a film!
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Post by butterflies on Feb 29, 2020 19:04:31 GMT
I was having a little bit of anxiety about what people will say if or when the trial begins. Itās just really unfair that he has accusers again Well whatever is said, you can take some comfort in that a trial has 2 sides, unlike a film! Itāll be two sides for sure, but Iām worried about peopleās reactions and what theyāll say to me, or if they will judge me as a person for being a fan. I felt I was so emotionally caught up last time around and feel I donāt like this part of being a fan where I have to defend him and myself cause Iām kind of avoidant of confrontation
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