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Post by Liberian Girl on Mar 17, 2019 9:06:50 GMT
I personally feel this documentary & subsequent media reaction has been one of the toughest onslaughts against MJ and his legacy.
Do you think MJs legacy will recover?
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Post by jaywonder on Mar 17, 2019 9:16:33 GMT
It's been a rough period, these past few months. I think I've been so exhausted because this has been the first time since the trial where he was the subject of such mass negative publicity. 2016 with those BS stories was bad but it was pretty short term. I've also purposely pushed November 2003-June 2005 to the back of my mind lol (I have several VHS tapes of the trial coverage but I haven't watched any of it since 2007)
But overall? yes I think his legacy will withstand this. What has helped since his passing is the amount of fans who have spread the facts of the allegations and a lot of the myths surrounding him throughout social media. We as a fanbase have used the tools that we have in a really great way.
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Post by Vega on Mar 17, 2019 9:51:20 GMT
I think that we're seeing a return to how things were from 2006-2009 before he died. US radio as a whole has been pretty unmoved by LN, and there are no formal bans, though I'm sure some stations are treading lightly until things blow over.
Barring some major bombshell to counter LN, either in the courtroom with the lawsuits being filed, or some sort of rebuttal documentary, I imagine things are going to revert back to how they used to be, for better or worse.
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Post by HIStoric on Mar 17, 2019 10:23:15 GMT
I think that we're seeing a return to how things were from 2006-2009 before he died. US radio as a whole has been pretty unmoved by LN, and there are no formal bans, though I'm sure some stations are treading lightly until things blow over. Barring some major bombshell to counter LN, either in the courtroom with the lawsuits being filed, or some sort of rebuttal documentary, I imagine things are going to revert back to how they used to be, for better or worse.I really hope this happens.
Personally, I think it's too early to say what'll happen so I'll wait and see, but I hope for the best. In the meantime I'll still continue blasting his music and wearing T-shirts of his. Wore my Thriller t-shirt to the supermarket today actually.
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Post by respect77 on Mar 17, 2019 16:12:55 GMT
Too early to tell.
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Post by bedroom on Mar 17, 2019 16:49:48 GMT
I personally think it was not as bad as 2003-2005. yet in a few years time, he sold out 50 shows in a matter of hours. I don't think it will change his legacy. There will always be doubters for sure. Or people convinced he is guilty. Always. But in the long run I don't think it is any worse than 2003-2005. I just feel sorry for post 2009 fans. They have not dealt with it before, like those of us us who are 30+, so it's something new for them. Therefore harder to deal with.
Also another thing is, nobody can take our freedom from us. We can listen to him as long as we want. I personally don't feel the need to be validated by the majority (if they are in the majority indeed) for my love of this man. Am I upset that this is how it turned out? Yes, very much so. But on the other hand, I know that MJ cant be personally harmed in anyway anymore and he is not here to witness it. God knows, the man suffered enough in his life time. This time around he is just up in heavens singing to angels.
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Post by MattyJam on Mar 17, 2019 17:08:33 GMT
I personally think it was not as bad as 2003-2005. yet in a few years time, he sold out 50 shows in a matter of hours. I don't think it will change his legacy. There will always be doubters for sure. Or people convinced he is guilty. Always. But in the long run I don't think it is any worse than 2003-2005. I just feel sorry for post 2009 fans. They have not dealt with it before, like those of us us who are 30+, so it's something new for them. Therefore harder to deal with. Also another thing is, nobody can take our freedom from us. We can listen to him as long as we want. I personally don't feel the need to be validated by the majority (if they are in the majority indeed) for my love of this man. Am I upset that this is how it turned out? Yes, very much so. But on the other hand, I know that MJ cant be personally harmed in anyway anymore and he is not here to witness it. God knows, the man suffered enough in his life time. This time around he is just up in heavens singing to angels. Amen. I gotta say bedroom, that was beautifully put. Is it a terrible injustice what has been done to Michael's good name in the last few months? Definitely. And I will continue to fight MJs corner to anyone who brings him up to me. I have a tattoo of him on my arm and I will wear it proudly when I take my son swimming. And if anyone dares to comment, they will be getting both barrels. But I so agree about not needing to feel validated by the media or the general public when it comes to supporting MJ. MJ spent his entire adult life living on his own terms and not seeking approval from the masses and it is one of the reasons I admired him as much as I do. It's time for the fans to take a leaf out of Michael's book, and show just 10% of his strength of character. When everyone says no, you say yes.
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Post by Liberian Girl on Mar 17, 2019 17:26:38 GMT
Reminds me of this quote from Morrissey...
"Now comes the hour to choose between being acceptable to others or being acceptable to one's own self, for we must kill our true selves off in order to survive.”
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Post by ShadowDeeps on Mar 17, 2019 22:46:46 GMT
I feel the damage is not repairable at this point. Even if Wade and James by some stretch of the imagination experience a lapse in their act and openly admit to having staged not only the movie itself (along with Dan) but their claims in entirety, it’ll just give off the impression that they’re still having difficulty coming to grips with their abuse to those who won’t ever question claims of misconduct. The vitriolic reaction of the public has been too strong, and very few other than fans, friends, and former co-workers of MJ are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. No one besides the aforementioned wants to investigate the matter to actually hold the claims of James and Wade to scrutiny. That’s because #MeToo has vilified the mere act of questioning accusations.
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Post by ghost on Mar 17, 2019 23:33:05 GMT
I feel the damage is not repairable at this point. Even if Wade and James by some stretch of the imagination experience a lapse in their act and openly admit to having staged not only the movie itself (along with Dan) but their claims in entirety, it’ll just give off the impression that they’re still having difficulty coming to grips with their abuse to those who won’t ever question claims of misconduct. The vitriolic reaction of the public has been too strong, and very few other than fans, friends, and former co-workers of MJ are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. No one besides the aforementioned wants to investigate the matter to actually hold the claims of James and Wade to scrutiny. That’s because #MeToo has vilified the mere act of questioning accusations. Well then it’s a good job MJ has a fanbase millions strong!!!
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Post by jaywonder on Mar 18, 2019 2:13:55 GMT
I feel the damage is not repairable at this point. Even if Wade and James by some stretch of the imagination experience a lapse in their act and openly admit to having staged not only the movie itself (along with Dan) but their claims in entirety, it’ll just give off the impression that they’re still having difficulty coming to grips with their abuse to those who won’t ever question claims of misconduct. The vitriolic reaction of the public has been too strong, and very few other than fans, friends, and former co-workers of MJ are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. No one besides the aforementioned wants to investigate the matter to actually hold the claims of James and Wade to scrutiny. That’s because #MeToo has vilified the mere act of questioning accusations. His legacy has had this shadow since 1993. Do I think it's bad? Yes Is it repairable? To an extent, yes too. As I said in another thread, the general public is mixed but you see far more people on Michael's side than on theirs. Maybe it's just me but I've also been seeing more people due to social media and fans working hard to post the facts, start calling out the press and the people involved for lying
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Post by ShadowDeeps on Mar 18, 2019 4:46:16 GMT
Accusations are taken far more earnestly today than they were twenty six years ago. All it takes is a single accusation of misconduct to turn anyone’s career and reputation into tatters. I’m not saying victims of sexual abuse don’t deserve a stout voice or that it isn’t of the utmost importance to properly handle matters of child sexual abuse. But I truly do think there’s enough evidence to say MJ name’s has become wrongfully synonymous with “child molester”. Dan Reed and those in favor of LN insist the film isn’t actually about Michael Jackson but the methods pedophiles use to groom children and their families, and child sex abuse... but if that’s really the case, using MJ was an ill-conceived example of such. MJ’s “grooming” methods, sending “love” letters, faxes, and notes, making elongated phone calls, nicknames, gifts... these “methods” were really a byproduct of MJ’s generosity and humor which he enacted for everyone he cared for, his family, his friends, his fans, his fellow collaborators... not just children. Not to mention his acts of generosity extended to unwell children in children’s hospitals all over the world. Was he grooming them too? The other false equivalence anti-MJ folk can’t seem to surmount is that sharing a bed is tantamount to sexual relations. Not at all. Sharing a bed could just as easily mean lending your bed rather than sleeping in the same bed.
LN only offers a very biased and intentionally duplicitous view of MJ, designed such that the uninformed viewer will be inevitably coerced into believing MJ performed the most heinous acts and crimes known to modern society. This is all due to emotional shock value and psychological manipulation. These tactics are also known as propaganda, and unfortunately it’s working. Many brands and companies who once supported MJ are dropping his music and distancing themselves from him like flies. His reputation is forever tarnished. I fear this is only the beginning. Unless something truly phenomenal happens to restore MJ’s name and legacy, I can honestly see him becoming completely cancelled for the public, by the end of the year. I know it sounds truly despondent but I have a difficult time shaking this feeling of impending doom in such a dire time.
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Post by jaywonder on Mar 18, 2019 5:03:10 GMT
Accusations are taken far more earnestly today than they were twenty six years ago. All it takes is a single accusation of misconduct to turn anyone’s career and reputation into tatters. I’m not saying victims of sexual abuse don’t deserve a stout voice or that it isn’t of the utmost importance to properly handle matters of child sexual abuse. But I truly do think there’s enough evidence to say MJ name’s has become wrongfully synonymous with “child molester”. Dan Reed and those in favor of LN insist the film isn’t actually about Michael Jackson but the methods pedophiles use to groom children and their families, and child sex abuse... but if that’s really the case, using MJ was an ill-conceived example of such. MJ’s “grooming” methods, sending “love” letters, faxes, and notes, making elongated phone calls, nicknames, gifts... these “methods” were really a byproduct of MJ’s generosity and humor which he enacted for everyone he cared for, his family, his friends, his fans, his fellow collaborators... not just children. Not to mention his acts of generosity extended to unwell children in children’s hospitals all over the world. Was he grooming them too? The other false equivalence anti-MJ folk can’t seem to surmount is that sharing a bed is tantamount to sexual relations. Not at all. Sharing a bed could just as easily mean lending your bed rather than sleeping in the same bed. LN only offers a very biased and intentionally duplicitous view of MJ, designed such that the uninformed viewer will be inevitably coerced into believing MJ performed the most heinous acts and crimes known to modern society. This is all due to emotional shock value and psychological manipulation. These tactics are also known as propaganda, and unfortunately it’s working. Many brands and companies who once supported MJ are dropping his music and distancing themselves from him like flies. I fear this is only the beginning. Unless something truly phenomenal happens to restore MJ’s name and legacy, I can honestly see him becoming completely cancelled for the public, by the end of the year. I know it sounds truly despondent but I have a difficult time shaking this feeling in such a dire time. No one can become completely "cancelled" by the public. Considering he still has massive amounts of supporters. And with THIS huge fanbase? No, not gonna be cancelled. Tarnished? Yes, but not cancelled
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Post by jaywonder on Mar 18, 2019 5:14:53 GMT
I remember 2003-2005. It was NOT cool to be a Michael Jackson fan. Polls after the verdict were overwhelmingly negative. It was news coverage 24/7
If anything, Michael was the first example of MeToo because people automatically believed the accusations in 03. He was a punchline. His music was barely played on radio stations. In fact, I couldn't find The Ultimate Collection in stores when it was released.
It was BAD to the point where I can barely bring myself to look at old footage from back then
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Post by Vega on Mar 18, 2019 5:21:22 GMT
Accusations are taken far more earnestly today than they were twenty six years ago. All it takes is a single accusation of misconduct to turn anyone’s career and reputation into tatters. I’m not saying victims of sexual abuse don’t deserve a stout voice or that it isn’t of the utmost importance to properly handle matters of child sexual abuse. But I truly do think there’s enough evidence to say MJ name’s has become wrongfully synonymous with “child molester”. Dan Reed and those in favor of LN insist the film isn’t actually about Michael Jackson but the methods pedophiles use to groom children and their families, and child sex abuse... but if that’s really the case, using MJ was an ill-conceived example of such. MJ’s “grooming” methods, sending “love” letters, faxes, and notes, making elongated phone calls, nicknames, gifts... these “methods” were really a byproduct of MJ’s generosity and humor which he enacted for everyone he cared for, his family, his friends, his fans, his fellow collaborators... not just children. Not to mention his acts of generosity extended to unwell children in children’s hospitals all over the world. Was he grooming them too? The other false equivalence anti-MJ folk can’t seem to surmount is that sharing a bed is tantamount to sexual relations. Not at all. Sharing a bed could just as easily mean lending your bed rather than sleeping in the same bed. LN only offers a very biased and intentionally duplicitous view of MJ, designed such that the uninformed viewer will be inevitably coerced into believing MJ performed the most heinous acts and crimes known to modern society. This is all due to emotional shock value and psychological manipulation. These tactics are also known as propaganda, and unfortunately it’s working. Many brands and companies who once supported MJ are dropping his music and distancing themselves from him like flies. I fear this is only the beginning. Unless something truly phenomenal happens to restore MJ’s name and legacy, I can honestly see him becoming completely cancelled for the public, by the end of the year. I know it sounds truly despondent but I have a difficult time shaking this feeling in such a dire time. I think you're being a little overdramatic. It's important to understand the gravity of the situation, and it's not good for fans to lull themselves into thinking things aren't what they are, but it's also important to not get defeatist either. What you're describing is closer to what happened to R. Kelly (in terms of backlash), and with ~2 weeks since LN aired, I don't think it's being repeated with Michael.
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