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Post by aazzaabb on Sept 20, 2019 11:20:54 GMT
Love those Triumphredux! And I love those inserts with that years musical output from the label. They put so much out that year. I do love when you’re browsing in a record or charity shop and stumbling across a piece of musical treasure. Recently I went to a place where I found a ton of MJ and Madonna 7-inches but the asking price was ridiculous for the collection. Many of them were badly damaged and scratched but the seller wasn’t moving on the crazy price. I do intend to buy all of the J5 and Jackson’s albums on vinyl at some point soon.😎 This is a rare Japanese pressing I found online recently. It’s not mine but the guy was selling it for $10 dollars along with The Christmas Album.    The very charming Darling Dear which is the closer on the Third Album. |
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Post by aazzaabb on Sept 20, 2019 11:44:57 GMT
After the September 1970 release of the well received Third Album, those lovely people at Motown released the seasonal The Jackson 5 Christmas Album. Yeah, 4 albums inside twelve months!! Michael literally spent 1970 in a recording studio, on a TV soundstage or out on the road touring. It’s become something of a classic over the decades along with the superb Phil Spector Christmas album. The Jackson 5 Christmas Album
 Release: October 15, 1970 Billboard 200 peak: did not chart Billboard Christmas Albums peak: #1 Length: 34:13 1. Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas (5:19) 2. Santa Claus Is Comin' to Town (2:24) 3. The Christmas Song (2:45) 4. Up on the House Top (3:16) 5. Frosty the Snowman (2:39) 6. The Little Drummer Boy (3:15) 7. "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (2:32) 8. Christmas Won't Be the Same This Year (2:31) 9. Give Love on Christmas Day (2:44) 10. Someday at Christmas (2:44) 11. I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus (3:01) Singles released: "Santa Claus Is Comin' To Town" Released Nov. 1970 Listen to the album here From Wikipedia: “The album spent all four weeks at the number one position on Billboard magazine's special Christmas Albums chart that the magazine published in December 1970, making it the best-selling Christmas album of that year and also year 1972. This album was a top seller and would have charted high on the Billboard 200 but from 1963 to 1973, holiday albums were not allowed to chart. It has sold over 3.5 million copies worldwide.The album has also been praised by critics. The Jackson 5 Christmas Album Has been hailed by many as one of the best holiday albums around. Allmusic's Lindsay Planer rated Jackson 5 Christmas Album four and a half out of five stars. She stated that "they carefully crafted and significantly modernized familiar seasonal selections." She also praised all of the tracks. Joshua Alston of The A.V. Club also praised the album and said "the original songs are among its finest moments". He also said "Jackson 5 Christmas is tough to compete with because it isn’t—as Christmas records so often are—an inessential brand extension or bait for discography completists. It’s a potent distillation of the spirit of Christmas, an album joyful enough to make me feel like it’s the most wonderful time of the year rather than merely telling me so."Rolling Stone also praised the album, calling it a "gem".” Give Love On Christmas DayThe Spanish 7” Vinyl Release of Mama’s Pearl
 The single Mama’s Pearl -from the Third Album- was delayed until January 1971 because of the release of The Christmas Album. "Mama's Pearl" b/w "Darling Dear" Release date: January 7, 1971 Hot 100 Peak Position: #2
Diana Ross Special: Mama’s Pearl/Walk On/The Love You Save |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2019 19:22:18 GMT
Thanks and I agree totally about the album thing, a lot of 60s Motown albums were just that, 1 or 2 hits surrounded by filler and there was lots of it as Motown forced their artists to do a lot of recording of mediocre material that never got released. Even Greatest Hits albums before the 70s had maybe 4 or 5 hits and the rest filler. I also notice too, all these records had 10 or 12 songs and no more. That seems fair, but given in the 60s the average cut was under 3 minutes, it was barely half an hour of music on each album.
All the early J5 albums have sub 40 minute run times as well.
But it was no different anywhere else, most albums before about 1967 were cobbled together collections of hits and fillers and many 60s fillers were showband and Tin pan Alley standards that were cheap to record due to public domain and feeble copyrights. Even Beatles albums until Sergeant Pepper in the US were lower quality than British releases, there were more American Beatles albums in the mid 60s and even American versions of main albums like Help, had missing cuts or other songs from other albums.
The 60s was still largely a singles market aimed at teens and children, who generally could afford a $1 to buy a single, but albums cost $5 or so and were out of reach, most albums before 1967 were aimed at older adults and were by non pop artists like Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin, along with Musicals.
Motown actually hit a winning streak by issuing full albums of Jackson 5, Temptations, Supremes, Diana Ross etc that had at least more hits and some quality filler. Quality went into overdrive when 1971 bought concept albums like Marvin Gayes - What's going on, which had absolutely no fillers and then Stevie Wonders line of mid 70s masterpieces. The album had arrived!
To be honest after the 3rd album, the quality of the J5 albums goes down, a lot more filler and less brilliant cuts (Even if they were sung and performed well by Michael and the brothers - the songwriting shot downwards).
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Post by aazzaabb on Sept 20, 2019 19:56:50 GMT
Thanks and I agree totally about the album thing, a lot of 60s Motown albums were just that, 1 or 2 hits surrounded by filler and there was lots of it as Motown forced their artists to do a lot of recording of mediocre material that never got released. Even Greatest Hits albums before the 70s had maybe 4 or 5 hits and the rest filler. I also notice too, all these records had 10 or 12 songs and no more. That seems fair, but given in the 60s the average cut was under 3 minutes, it was barely half an hour of music on each album. All the early J5 albums have sub 40 minute run times as well. But it was no different anywhere else, most albums before about 1967 were cobbled together collections of hits and fillers and many 60s fillers were showband and Tin pan Alley standards that were cheap to record due to public domain and feeble copyrights. Even Beatles albums until Sergeant Pepper in the US were lower quality than British releases, there were more American Beatles albums in the mid 60s and even American versions of main albums like Help, had missing cuts or other songs from other albums. The 60s was still largely a singles market aimed at teens and children, who generally could afford a $1 to buy a single, but albums cost $5 or so and were out of reach, most albums before 1967 were aimed at older adults and were by non pop artists like Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin, along with Musicals. Motown actually hit a winning streak by issuing full albums of Jackson 5, Temptations, Supremes, Diana Ross etc that had at least more hits and some quality filler. Quality went into overdrive when 1971 bought concept albums like Marvin Gayes - What's going on, which had absolutely no fillers and then Stevie Wonders line of mid 70s masterpieces. The album had arrived! To be honest after the 3rd album, the quality of the J5 albums goes down, a lot more filler and less brilliant cuts (Even if they were sung and performed well by Michael and the brothers - the songwriting shot downwards). You make some really interesting points Triumph. Lots of filler back then for sure because the pop album was still relatively new I suppose. As much as we grinch at the thought of listening to an album full of filler I think these early J5 albums have sort of gone full circle in that there’s a charm to a lot of it because we recognise many of these Motown standards from other Motown artists. Add to that we get Michael’s incredible voice singing them and there’s a great time to be had from giving these records a spin. Well, there’s at least a “good” time to be had. I suppose the running time on each of these albums as approx 37 minutes was part of the secret formula and optimal time for the attention span of the average teenager. It was all about the singles I guess, when the 45’s -or as we’d call them, 7” inch- meant something on the pop and r&b charts and drove the enthusiasm forward. Radio playing the number #1 on the hour every hour and shows like American Bandstand and Top Of The Pops were weekend events where families gathered around a TV set and watched the weekly chart countdown. After that initial mindblowingly amazing year of 1970, momentum perhaps changed or slowed down or shifted towards giving Michael his own solo platform alongside already being the focal point of his brothers group. Perhaps there was a watering down of the already watered down in terms of material. I suppose after the initial run of four #1’s and that exciting explosion onto the pop scene they wanted to try to evolve their sound or try something different. I think there was still a lot of exciting music from 1971 onwards but Michael was now getting a lot of the songs that would have been saved for and released on J5 albums. I really like what they released in 71 including Sugar Daddy as the new track on their Greatest Hits, closing that bubble gum pop chapter. And as you say, things were changing at Motown with the stunning “What’s Going On” album and the Stevie Wonder albums. Closing the chapter of 1970, I’ve chosen a few album tracks for the curious that I rate very highly. Some of the smoothest tracks in Michael’s catalog😎 Diana Ross Presents The Jackson 5 aazzaabb’s picks: Can You Remember You've Changed Stand Born To Love You ABC aazzaabb’s picks: One More Chance 2-4-6-8 Don’t Know Why I Love You La La (Means I Love You) Third Album aazzaabb’s picks: Ready Or Not (Here I Come) Can I See You In The Morning Darling Dear |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 3:59:34 GMT
Agree with your picks and desparately looking for any other J5 on vinyl. The same slae I picked up a decent copy of Destiny for $5, but that is for a later time.
In New Zealand, all Motown stuff including subsidiary labels like Gordy and Tamla was issued on Polydor records and my J5 singles "I saw Mummy Kissing Santa Claus" and "Ben" are on red label singles with a Poldor logo and a Tamla one.
You may know "I saw Mummy Kissing Santa Claus" was a #1 smash here and not really anywhere else.
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
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Post by TonyR on Sept 21, 2019 9:11:31 GMT
An unearthed J5 cover of a Smokey track.
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Post by aazzaabb on Sept 21, 2019 12:37:00 GMT
Agree with your picks and desparately looking for any other J5 on vinyl. The same slae I picked up a decent copy of Destiny for $5, but that is for a later time. In New Zealand, all Motown stuff including subsidiary labels like Gordy and Tamla was issued on Polydor records and my J5 singles "I saw Mummy Kissing Santa Claus" and "Ben" are on red label singles with a Poldor logo and a Tamla one. You may know "I saw Mummy Kissing Santa Claus" was a #1 smash here and not really anywhere else. Cheers mate. “My picks” are possibly very ballad heavy or bubblegum soul. I do like some of the uptempo tracks but I just feel Michael’s voice soars on some of the more slow melodic tunes. If there’s any other album tracks that you enjoy, let me know. Triumph, would be awesome if you would share your Destiny vinyl later on when we get to Destiny. Thanks indeed pal. I used to spend an awful lot of time in the secondhand record stores in Manchester but I don’t really get in there as much anymore. I did not know that “I saw Mummy Kissing Santa Claus" was a #1 in New Zealand! 😃 I delight in this kind of info. 😎👍🏼 A 45 single of it in relatively good condition would be a nice little find. Although you already own it. Would love to see your “I saw Mummy Kissing Santa Claus" single. And later on Ben of course. I’m guessing the red label singles literally come with only the Polydor and Talma logos, and little else in the form of artwork? I’m always seeing 7” singles with little more than a white sleeve and a label stamp for a lot of older singles. I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus (1987 UK Motown 4-track 7" vinyl EP) 1. I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus 2. Frosty The Snowman 3. Santa Claus Is Comin' To Town 4. Up On The House Top An unearthed J5 cover of a Smokey track. Thank you for sharing this here TonyR ! Motown were at it like rabbits, morning noon and night! Their artists, writers and producers literally clocked-in and out of work like a sweat shop! 60 Unreleased tracks? And that was only on a Monday! 😂 Seriously though, no wonder they produced so much quality music! They never slept! I look forward to this. Hopefully the J5 track is half decent. I suppose anything unheard is quite great in retrospect. Unheard Stevie and Marvin isn't a bad thing either! 😎 |
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Post by aazzaabb on Sept 23, 2019 18:37:23 GMT
Moving on to the next release, The J5’s next album, 1971’s Maybe Tomorrow was even more of a ballad heavy, soulful r&b collection than their Third Album, with merely a few up-tempos. Recorded between June 1970 and February 1971, there’s definitely a new maturity to the group with this album, and aesthetically, gone are the bright loud primary colours of the first 4 album sleeve’s, instead with a candid photo featuring Michael, Jackie and Tito on the front, and Jermaine and Marlon on the back. The obvious standouts are the singles; the stunning Never Can Say Goodbye and the achingly beautifully Maybe Tomorrow in which Michael gives an almost vulnerable vocal performance reflecting the beauty of the songs lyrics. The Jackson 5 Maybe Tomorrow
 Release date: April 12, 1971 Billboard 200 Peak Position: #11 (#1 R&B albums, 6 weeks) Length: 33:59 1.Maybe Tomorrow (4:41) 2.She's Good (2:59) 3.Never Can Say Goodbye (2:57) 4.The Wall (3:03) 5.Petals (2:34) 6.Sixteen Candles (2:45) 7.(We've Got) Blue Skies (3:21) 8.My Little Baby (2:58) 9.It's Great to Be Here (2:59) 10.Honey Chile (2:45) 11.I Will Find a Way (2:57) Singles released: "Never Can Say Goodbye" b/w "She's Good" Released March 16, 1971 Hot 100 Peak Position: #2 (#1 R&B singles, 3 weeks) "Maybe Tomorrow" b/w "I Will Find A Way" Released July 1971 Hot 100 Peak Position: #20 (#3 R&B singles) "Feelin' Alright" (Diana Ross with the Jackson 5) Released March 1971 as a promo-only 7" single, taken from the TV soundtrack Diana! Listen to the album here Never Can Say Goodbye: Flip Wilson Show 04/11/1971I Want You Back/Maybe Tomorrow 16/09/1971From Wikipedia: “While not as financially successful as the Jackson 5's first three outings, selling over 3.5 million copies worldwide, Maybe Tomorrow contains some of the most often-sampled and covered material in the group's catalogue. It spent six weeks at No. 1 on the Soul albums chart.”
Rolling Stone review of Maybe Tomorrow This might be referred to as a “mature” album, and that’s its major disappointment. Rather than an intensification of the Jackson 5’s earlier work, Maybe Tomorrow is a cooling off — carefully considered and well-timed, but just a little too easy. It’s the difference between the slow exhalation of breath that opens “Never Can Say Goodbye” and the urgent screams in “I Want You Back.” In its own way, Michael breathing in your ear is exciting as instant intimacy but it’s mere titillation compared to the magnificent excess of adolescent shrillness and raw energy in the earlier singles. Yet “Never Can Say Goodbye” was a great 45 and stands as the strongest, most satisfying cut on the album. The hushed, harmonizing chorus work, bright flute and triangle/bell accents, steady drumming — everything heightens the young-boy tension in Michael’s lead, giving him a subtle background to play against and making his “ooo”-squeals at the end all the more delicious. Nothing else quite comes up to this tightly controlled blend of energies, but if you can accept anything less than perfection, these cuts, too, are outstanding: “Maybe Tomorrow,” the longest (4:46) and most ambitious (more flute, with harps, french horn flourishes, tambourines and of course floods of strings) but remarkably successful in the aching love song mode; “The Wall,” which comes closest to the feeling of the masterpiece singles, punched along by brilliant drumming, an insistent soul clap and a chorus of “tear the wall down”; “Petals,” one of the Jackson 5’s trademark jumpy tunes, with a she-loves-me, she-loves-me-not theme (“When my honey says she loves me so,” Michael confides, “Believe me y’all it’s far from status quo”), layered harmonies and a lovably light-weight lead. These are all potential single hits — genuine AM radio beauties. With all the above songs on side one, the second side has a kind of wastebasket feeling. It’s nice, sure it’s nice, but nothing rises much above that level. Of these, only “It’s Great To Be Here” comes across with drive and spunk but even this is pretty silly with its asides about eskimos and senoritas (I have to admit though that trashy touches like this have a certain attraction — a whole aesthetic of their own — and without them the J5, and pop music in general, could be awfully boring). Where nearly half the cuts on the three previous Jackson 5 albums were reworkings — often very effective and stylish ones — of material from other performers, just two borrowed songs are included here. Sadly, both “16 Candles” and “Honey Chile” are given less than inspired treatment and were better left alone. The production is by the Corporation, a fittingly anonymous name for the Motown team which has worked with the Jackson 5 as producer-composer from the beginning. For this album, five songs are separately credited to producer Hal Davis who shared credit with the corporation on the second on third J5 LPs, but the style throughout is uniformly Motown Moderne: flashy and not always in the best of taste but so fucking fine that even the lowest cut has its moments of distinction. The 5’s lyrics are never anything very special but “Never Can Say Goodbye” deserves a note as probably the only pop song to use the world “anguish.” An 11-year-old boy singing about anguish and doubt! One of the achievements of this album is that, with little suspension of disbelief, we can accept Michael as a tormented lover — give him another year and he’ll give us a convincing version of “Dark End of the Street.” Maybe Tomorrow shows the Jackson 5 in a minor light, hardly appropriate for a Major Phenomenon but not unflattering. |
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Post by jaywonder on Sept 24, 2019 1:16:41 GMT
Thanks and I agree totally about the album thing, a lot of 60s Motown albums were just that, 1 or 2 hits surrounded by filler and there was lots of it as Motown forced their artists to do a lot of recording of mediocre material that never got released. Even Greatest Hits albums before the 70s had maybe 4 or 5 hits and the rest filler. I also notice too, all these records had 10 or 12 songs and no more. That seems fair, but given in the 60s the average cut was under 3 minutes, it was barely half an hour of music on each album. All the early J5 albums have sub 40 minute run times as well. But it was no different anywhere else, most albums before about 1967 were cobbled together collections of hits and fillers and many 60s fillers were showband and Tin pan Alley standards that were cheap to record due to public domain and feeble copyrights. Even Beatles albums until Sergeant Pepper in the US were lower quality than British releases, there were more American Beatles albums in the mid 60s and even American versions of main albums like Help, had missing cuts or other songs from other albums. The 60s was still largely a singles market aimed at teens and children, who generally could afford a $1 to buy a single, but albums cost $5 or so and were out of reach, most albums before 1967 were aimed at older adults and were by non pop artists like Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin, along with Musicals. Motown actually hit a winning streak by issuing full albums of Jackson 5, Temptations, Supremes, Diana Ross etc that had at least more hits and some quality filler. Quality went into overdrive when 1971 bought concept albums like Marvin Gayes - What's going on, which had absolutely no fillers and then Stevie Wonders line of mid 70s masterpieces. The album had arrived! To be honest after the 3rd album, the quality of the J5 albums goes down, a lot more filler and less brilliant cuts (Even if they were sung and performed well by Michael and the brothers - the songwriting shot downwards). You make some really interesting points Triumph. Lots of filler back then for sure because the pop album was still relatively new I suppose. As much as we grinch at the thought of listening to an album full of filler I think these early J5 albums have sort of gone full circle in that there’s a charm to a lot of it because we recognise many of these Motown standards from other Motown artists. Add to that we get Michael’s incredible voice singing them and there’s a great time to be had from giving these records a spin. Well, there’s at least a “good” time to be had. I suppose the running time on each of these albums as approx 37 minutes was part of the secret formula and optimal time for the attention span of the average teenager. It was all about the singles I guess, when the 45’s -or as we’d call them, 7” inch- meant something on the pop and r&b charts and drove the enthusiasm forward. Radio playing the number #1 on the hour every hour and shows like American Bandstand and Top Of The Pops were weekend events where families gathered around a TV set and watched the weekly chart countdown. After that initial mindblowingly amazing year of 1970, momentum perhaps changed or slowed down or shifted towards giving Michael his own solo platform alongside already being the focal point of his brothers group. Perhaps there was a watering down of the already watered down in terms of material. I suppose after the initial run of four #1’s and that exciting explosion onto the pop scene they wanted to try to evolve their sound or try something different. I think there was still a lot of exciting music from 1971 onwards but Michael was now getting a lot of the songs that would have been saved for and released on J5 albums. I really like what they released in 71 including Sugar Daddy as the new track on their Greatest Hits, closing that bubble gum pop chapter. And as you say, things were changing at Motown with the stunning “What’s Going On” album and the Stevie Wonder albums. Closing the chapter of 1970, I’ve chosen a few album tracks for the curious that I rate very highly. Some of the smoothest tracks in Michael’s catalog😎 Diana Ross Presents The Jackson 5aazzaabb’s picks: Can You Remember You've Changed Stand Born To Love You ABCaazzaabb’s picks: One More Chance 2-4-6-8 Don’t Know Why I Love You La La (Means I Love You) Third Albumaazzaabb’s picks: Ready Or Not (Here I Come) Can I See You In The Morning Darling Dear One reason why material for the brothers changed was Berry's focus. He was more focused on making Diana Ross a huge movie star and dynamics at the label changed during 1971-1973. In fact, I've grown to prefer a lot of the 1972-1973 material, especially a lot of it that's been released after they left the label |
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Post by aazzaabb on Sept 24, 2019 19:03:34 GMT
You make some really interesting points Triumph. Lots of filler back then for sure because the pop album was still relatively new I suppose. As much as we grinch at the thought of listening to an album full of filler I think these early J5 albums have sort of gone full circle in that there’s a charm to a lot of it because we recognise many of these Motown standards from other Motown artists. Add to that we get Michael’s incredible voice singing them and there’s a great time to be had from giving these records a spin. Well, there’s at least a “good” time to be had. I suppose the running time on each of these albums as approx 37 minutes was part of the secret formula and optimal time for the attention span of the average teenager. It was all about the singles I guess, when the 45’s -or as we’d call them, 7” inch- meant something on the pop and r&b charts and drove the enthusiasm forward. Radio playing the number #1 on the hour every hour and shows like American Bandstand and Top Of The Pops were weekend events where families gathered around a TV set and watched the weekly chart countdown. After that initial mindblowingly amazing year of 1970, momentum perhaps changed or slowed down or shifted towards giving Michael his own solo platform alongside already being the focal point of his brothers group. Perhaps there was a watering down of the already watered down in terms of material. I suppose after the initial run of four #1’s and that exciting explosion onto the pop scene they wanted to try to evolve their sound or try something different. I think there was still a lot of exciting music from 1971 onwards but Michael was now getting a lot of the songs that would have been saved for and released on J5 albums. I really like what they released in 71 including Sugar Daddy as the new track on their Greatest Hits, closing that bubble gum pop chapter. And as you say, things were changing at Motown with the stunning “What’s Going On” album and the Stevie Wonder albums. Closing the chapter of 1970, I’ve chosen a few album tracks for the curious that I rate very highly. Some of the smoothest tracks in Michael’s catalog😎 Diana Ross Presents The Jackson 5aazzaabb’s picks: Can You Remember You've Changed Stand Born To Love You ABCaazzaabb’s picks: One More Chance 2-4-6-8 Don’t Know Why I Love You La La (Means I Love You) Third Albumaazzaabb’s picks: Ready Or Not (Here I Come) Can I See You In The Morning Darling Dear One reason why material for the brothers changed was Berry's focus. He was more focused on making Diana Ross a huge movie star and dynamics at the label changed during 1971-1973. In fact, I've grown to prefer a lot of the 1972-1973 material, especially a lot of it that's been released after they left the label Jay! If I remember correctly you’ve got a ton of knowledge on the whole J5 and Jackson’s eras! Thanks for posting dude. Apologies in advance for the endless questions. So Berry was not as hands on with the J5 during 1971-1973 because he was focusing on Diana Ross’ potential film career? Do you prefer the 71-73 material -that released at the time and years later- far and above over the 1970 material? And what do you think of the Steeltown material? Would love to know what your favourites from 1968-1970 are? In an ideal world I’d love a Jaywonder playlist from 68-70 and 71-73😁😎 No pressure like. I suppose from 1971 on the #1 hits were over and they were having top 5, top 10 hits. And Michael of course had a few songs in the top 5. Sometimes I wonder had Michael’s solo songs been released as the Jackson 5 would they have had a few more #1’s, or had the Jackson 5’s days of #1’s simply run their course?. The Jackson 5/Jackson’s singles releases seemed to elude the #1 spot for so many great singles that became 70’s and 80’s classics that are always played at parties etc. Without wanting to jump way ahead, a lot of these amazing songs didn’t even make the top 10 or 20. Also, the albums, after the Christmas albums failed to make the top 10 albums. Keep in mind I’m far from an expert and I’m overlooking the r&b charts which I guess is where they found much of their later success for the most part? Amazing that in 1970 in the eyes of the record buying public and the critics, the J5 could do no wrong, and literally in 1971 album sales and chart positions begin to decline. I’m not saying they were in any way over, just that their successes seem to become further apart and more varied -Michael’s solo albums etc. Even Sugar Daddy -which is a throwback to The Love You Save, I Want You Back, ABC- didn’t hit the #1 spot. And the Greatest Hits from which it featured didn’t even hit the top 10 on the Billboard charts. Although, it did hit the #1 spot on the r&b charts and I guess the people who bought the album didn’t buy the single for Sugar Daddy as it was on the album. Edit: Ok, so Sugar Daddy was #3 on the r&b charts. That’s not bad actually. Stephanie Edwards Show 29/03/1971 |
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Post by jaywonder on Sept 25, 2019 2:53:16 GMT
One reason why material for the brothers changed was Berry's focus. He was more focused on making Diana Ross a huge movie star and dynamics at the label changed during 1971-1973. In fact, I've grown to prefer a lot of the 1972-1973 material, especially a lot of it that's been released after they left the label Jay! If I remember correctly you’ve got a ton of knowledge on the whole J5 and Jackson’s eras! Thanks for posting dude. Apologies in advance for the endless questions. So Berry was not as hands on with the J5 during 1971-1973 because he was focusing on Diana Ross’ potential film career? Do you prefer the 71-73 material -that released at the time and years later- far and above over the 1970 material? And what do you think of the Steeltown material? Would love to know what your favourites from 1968-1970 are? In an ideal world I’d love a Jaywonder playlist from 68-70 and 71-73😁😎 No pressure like. I suppose from 1971 on the #1 hits were over and they were having top 5, top 10 hits. And Michael of course had a few songs in the top 5. Sometimes I wonder had Michael’s solo songs been released as the Jackson 5 would they have had a few more #1’s, or had the Jackson 5’s days of #1’s simply run their course?. The Jackson 5/Jackson’s singles releases seemed to elude the #1 spot for so many great singles that became 70’s and 80’s classics that are always played at parties etc. Without wanting to jump way ahead, a lot of these amazing songs didn’t even make the top 10 or 20. Also, the albums, after the Christmas albums failed to make the top 10 albums. Keep in mind I’m far from an expert and I’m overlooking the r&b charts which I guess is where they found much of their later success for the most part? Amazing that in 1970 in the eyes of the record buying public and the critics, the J5 could do no wrong, and literally in 1971 album sales and chart positions begin to decline. I’m not saying they were in any way over, just that their successes seem to become further apart and more varied -Michael’s solo albums etc. Even Sugar Daddy -which is a throwback to The Love You Save, I Want You Back, ABC- didn’t hit the #1 spot. And the Greatest Hits from which it featured didn’t even hit the top 10 on the Billboard charts. Although, it did hit the #1 spot on the r&b charts and I guess the people who bought the album didn’t buy the single for Sugar Daddy as it was on the album. Edit: Ok, so Sugar Daddy was #3 on the r&b charts. That’s not bad actually. Stephanie Edwards Show 29/03/1971From what I know, he was still involved but if you look at the liner notes, 1972 is when people like Hal Davis, Leon Ware, Jerry Marcellino, Mel Larson and the like began handling the writing and production for the group. Berry still had final say but yeah, those men had more input than "The Corporation" collective. I think the 1969-1970 stuff is great but thing is, here in the States, I Want You Back, The Love You Save, ABC, The Love You Save, and I'll Be There have become "standards". Part of the country's lexicon. They're in movies, commercials....lol I do like the 1972-1975 work a lot more these days. In fact, the compilations like Soulsation, I want You Back!, Come and Get It, have disappointed me because of the lack of 1973-1975 material. Jermaine's voice was more mature and smoother and it's fascinating hearing Michael still as a kid but hearing hints of the voice we all would grow up with. The Steeltown material, save for Big Boy and their early version of What's Changed, is vastly forgettable and I have MASSIVE issues with Gordon Keith and that whole situation. I always knew they were big but we all on this forum grew up with POST MOTOWN Michael. It wasn't until I started talking with fans who were there at the beginning that made me really see just how significant and successful J5 were In the mass of young kid pop acts that came in 1970-1974, it seems like J5 were the only ones that the music press saw as credible (The Sylvers were great too and incredibly talented but their material was hit and miss), but while they were the most successful and had more hits, they weren't on the covers of teen and overall pop magazines....and I think we know why Even in 1974 when their chart success was fading, they sold out the Houston Astrodome, which seated over 45,000 people The J5 greatest hits album was at the end of a period where the public saw: -7 albums released between December 1969 to September 1971 -Multiple TV appearances -Their own tv special -Their own cartoon series -3 National concert tours They may have had fatigue lol The album has sold over 5 million copies. Not too shabby Something I've heard from a lot of older fans: Michael was the "spark" for them. He, Tito, Jackie, Marlon, and Jermaine inspired a lot of young kids of color at that time. A lot of little African American men have said when they saw Michael on the Ed Sullivan Show or on American Bandstand, they saw themselves and that things were possible. He was important A friend of mine said Thriller's crossover success and how big Michael was in the 80s and 90s was confirmation to what he and other people knew back in 1971-1972 |
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Post by Russg on Sept 25, 2019 6:22:03 GMT
The J5 version of La La Means I Love You slays the original and the cover Prince did many years later.
Little Mike sang the shit outta that one!
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Post by mjjfan810 on Sept 26, 2019 6:42:32 GMT
Their Christmas album might be my favorite actually. I play it all the time.
But apart from that, I'd say "Third Album" is the one I listen to the most. Love that album. 'Ready or Not', along with "I'll be There" & "Mamas Pearl" are all fantastic songs. Darling Dear is also a great track, the opening intro has that classic Motown sound. Overall, one of the J5's most consistently good LPs.
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Post by aazzaabb on Sept 26, 2019 20:20:49 GMT
Jay! If I remember correctly you’ve got a ton of knowledge on the whole J5 and Jackson’s eras! Thanks for posting dude. Apologies in advance for the endless questions. So Berry was not as hands on with the J5 during 1971-1973 because he was focusing on Diana Ross’ potential film career? Do you prefer the 71-73 material -that released at the time and years later- far and above over the 1970 material? And what do you think of the Steeltown material? Would love to know what your favourites from 1968-1970 are? In an ideal world I’d love a Jaywonder playlist from 68-70 and 71-73😁😎 No pressure like. I suppose from 1971 on the #1 hits were over and they were having top 5, top 10 hits. And Michael of course had a few songs in the top 5. Sometimes I wonder had Michael’s solo songs been released as the Jackson 5 would they have had a few more #1’s, or had the Jackson 5’s days of #1’s simply run their course?. The Jackson 5/Jackson’s singles releases seemed to elude the #1 spot for so many great singles that became 70’s and 80’s classics that are always played at parties etc. Without wanting to jump way ahead, a lot of these amazing songs didn’t even make the top 10 or 20. Also, the albums, after the Christmas albums failed to make the top 10 albums. Keep in mind I’m far from an expert and I’m overlooking the r&b charts which I guess is where they found much of their later success for the most part? Amazing that in 1970 in the eyes of the record buying public and the critics, the J5 could do no wrong, and literally in 1971 album sales and chart positions begin to decline. I’m not saying they were in any way over, just that their successes seem to become further apart and more varied -Michael’s solo albums etc. Even Sugar Daddy -which is a throwback to The Love You Save, I Want You Back, ABC- didn’t hit the #1 spot. And the Greatest Hits from which it featured didn’t even hit the top 10 on the Billboard charts. Although, it did hit the #1 spot on the r&b charts and I guess the people who bought the album didn’t buy the single for Sugar Daddy as it was on the album. Edit: Ok, so Sugar Daddy was #3 on the r&b charts. That’s not bad actually. Stephanie Edwards Show 29/03/1971From what I know, he was still involved but if you look at the liner notes, 1972 is when people like Hal Davis, Leon Ware, Jerry Marcellino, Mel Larson and the like began handling the writing and production for the group. Berry still had final say but yeah, those men had more input than "The Corporation" collective. I think the 1969-1970 stuff is great but thing is, here in the States, I Want You Back, The Love You Save, ABC, The Love You Save, and I'll Be There have become "standards". Part of the country's lexicon. They're in movies, commercials....lol I do like the 1972-1975 work a lot more these days. In fact, the compilations like Soulsation, I want You Back!, Come and Get It, have disappointed me because of the lack of 1973-1975 material. Jermaine's voice was more mature and smoother and it's fascinating hearing Michael still as a kid but hearing hints of the voice we all would grow up with. The Steeltown material, save for Big Boy and their early version of What's Changed, is vastly forgettable and I have MASSIVE issues with Gordon Keith and that whole situation. I always knew they were big but we all on this forum grew up with POST MOTOWN Michael. It wasn't until I started talking with fans who were there at the beginning that made me really see just how significant and successful J5 were In the mass of young kid pop acts that came in 1970-1974, it seems like J5 were the only ones that the music press saw as credible (The Sylvers were great too and incredibly talented but their material was hit and miss), but while they were the most successful and had more hits, they weren't on the covers of teen and overall pop magazines....and I think we know why Even in 1974 when their chart success was fading, they sold out the Houston Astrodome, which seated over 45,000 people The J5 greatest hits album was at the end of a period where the public saw: -7 albums released between December 1969 to September 1971 -Multiple TV appearances -Their own tv special -Their own cartoon series -3 National concert tours They may have had fatigue lol The album has sold over 5 million copies. Not too shabby Something I've heard from a lot of older fans: Michael was the "spark" for them. He, Tito, Jackie, Marlon, and Jermaine inspired a lot of young kids of color at that time. A lot of little African American men have said when they saw Michael on the Ed Sullivan Show or on American Bandstand, they saw themselves and that things were possible. He was important A friend of mine said Thriller's crossover success and how big Michael was in the 80s and 90s was confirmation to what he and other people knew back in 1971-1972 It’s incredible what they did in such a short space of time! The fact that they -Motown- released so many albums within one year, and that eventually MJ would only release one album every four or five years! It must have been amazing, to be a young African American at that time and see the Jackson 5 on Ed Sullivan, American Bandstand etc. It must have been a very polarising life experience for young Michael and his brothers also to come from Gary Indiana and end up superstars living in LA. I bet they experience an awful lot of racism along the way too. As you say also; about not being on the covers of teen and pop magazines, along with The Sylvers yet being so successful. I’m less familiar with the J5’s later stuff. I have heard all of it at least once but apart from a few songs I never really gave it much of a chance. And it’s a shame because there’s great material there; soul, r&b, pop, etc. Heck, there’s stuff on some of these albums that even have a bit of a Beatles sound/vibe. I know Motown released that box set a few years back but they should give these records more of an expansive release. Yesterday I saw on TV a piece on a morning show over here called This Morning about the new Beatles Abbey Road release -an album I love actually- but I wish J5 and a few others got Beatles type love. I suppose it’s easy for me to say it in retrospect, but I can definitely believe and understand people who watched the J5 on Ed Sullivan at the time and just knowing he was destined for greatness. For me, he’s a fully formed mega talent already at that point. It’s just undeniable. The Who’s Loving You performance has so much soul and charisma. I mean yes, 5 million of The Greatest Hits album sold isn’t exactly bad is it?! Quite phenomenal. I know that Greatest Hits has a special place in the hearts of a lot of the older fans also. Looking forward to the Quadraphonic re-release with the alternative vocals also. I didn’t want to talk about Greatest Hits until later -although after the next album -Goin’ Back To Indiana- it’s up next anyway- but it’s worth a mention here since we got talking about it and the new re-release is what’s after sparking my latest interest in delving in to all the albums. It’s an Iconic Greatest Hits album after all. The fact that they had this Greatest Hits album after just a year and a half is bonkers!! NEWSJackson 5’s Greatest Hits Collection Returns In Rare Quad Mix
The compilation was first issued on 27 December 1971 and encapsulated the first 18 months of the group’s immense success on record. The Jackson 5’s first singles collection Greatest Hits will be released in its rare, sought-after quadrophonic mix on black vinyl LP, and in a limited edition clear vinyl LP, on 25 October. The compilation was first issued on 27 December 1971 and encapsulated the breathless, remarkable first 18 months of the group’s immense success on record. Greatest Hits was packed with the group’s biggest hits to that point, including the four straight pop No. 1s with which they opened their account, ‘I Want You Back,’ ‘ABC,’ ‘The Love You Save’ and ‘I’ll Be There.’ Other major hits such as ‘Mama’s Pearl’ and ‘Never Can Say Goodbye’ are also included. The album itself spent five weeks at No. 2 on the R&B chart and reached No. 12 pop, in a 41-week run on the latter listing. The quad mix of the album was originally issued only in Japan in 1975. This new edition includes alternate vocals and adds some instrumentation that isn’t heard in the much-loved single and album mixes of the tracks. The quad mixes are the stereo folds, so the new vinyl LP editions do not require a special decoder or four speakers for listeners to enjoy them. Original four-channel analog masters from the Motown vault were used as the audio source for the new LP editions. They were mastered and cut by Alex Abrash at AA Mastering. The album arrived when the J5 had already released five studio albums in less than 18 months, including a Christmas album in 1970 and spring 1971’s Maybe Tomorrow. The Greatest Hits collection also includes the hugely popular b-sides ‘I Found That Girl’ and ‘Who’s Lovin’ You.’ Also featured is ‘Sugar Daddy,’ which at the time of the album’s release in December 1971 was the new single by the Jackson 5, becoming a top three R&B hit and top ten pop. |
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Post by aazzaabb on Sept 26, 2019 20:43:10 GMT
The J5 version of La La Means I Love You slays the original and the cover Prince did many years later. Little Mike sang the shit outta that one! Yes! Yes! Yes! The Jackson 5 version is utterly beautiful. I listened to it late last night in the car on the way home. Again, Michael’s vocals are everything, and the harmonies are magical. It’s 70’s perfection. Their Christmas album might be my favorite actually. I play it all the time. But apart from that, I'd say "Third Album" is the one I listen to the most. Love that album. 'Ready or Not', along with "I'll be There" & "Mamas Pearl" are all fantastic songs. Darling Dear is also a great track, the opening intro has that classic Motown sound. Overall, one of the J5's most consistently good LPs. Yeah, Third Album is actually really good. All of the tracks you mentioned are sublime. I would love if Ready Or Not had been a single for them with Darling Dear as the B-side, but I suppose the fact that it was originally by and released by The Delfonics ruled that out. Still though, the J5 version is so good. |
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