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Post by respect77 on Dec 23, 2019 22:32:39 GMT
Seeing the mostly negative reactions by the SW fandom (initially it looked better but now they are raging) I was wondering about this.
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Post by HIStoric on Dec 24, 2019 2:25:19 GMT
Oh easily the Michael Jackson Estate. Let's focus on the last 5 years, since that's really when Disney started producing Star Wars products.
I might not be overly happy with The Rise of Skywalker and how that now frames the final trilogy, but Disney have still put out multiple good Star Wars products. The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi, Rogue One, Mandalorian, Galaxy's Edge (that Star Wars land thing, which I really wanna go to). Battlefront II has turned out really good and Jedi Fallen Order has been solid so far. There's lots of cool merchandise out there as well now.
As opposed to the Michael Jackson Estate who've released... what since December 2014? A repackaging of OTW where the only highlight is the included documentary, which is alright but nothing spectacular imo. Reissues of MJ studio album vinyls (though aside from HIStory, they're not hard to find). A drastically overpriced This Is It boxset that offers almost nothing new, yet costs an arm and a leg? I'm aware there is an upcoming Broadway play in the works, but until then, there hasn't exactly been much new this last half decade.
I mean fans argue back and forth over how good the various Disney Star Wars offerings are, we've had our fair share here on this forum, but most people can find things to enjoy in at least some of their new releases. And regardless of what you think of them personally, you can't deny that they've done a good job at bringing Star Wars back into the forefront of modern pop culture.
Michael Jackson is doing well on his own for a legacy artist, and he managed to handle the Leaving Neverland scandal quite well given the seriousness and attention given to it... but what exactly has the Michael Jackson Estate done for his legacy in the public eye these last few years? Compare to The Beatles and Prince's Estate, who have been releasing these incredible boxsets the last couple of years, bringing their contributions to the arts back to the attention of the media and general public, giving their works the attention and care they deserve! What exactly have the Michael Jackson Estate done like this? The 2016 Off the Wall reissue is almost nothing compared to the mammoth of the Purple Rain, 1999, Sgt Peppers, White Album or Abbey Road deluxe editions.
Now I do think they could be doing far worse and scraping the barrel (check out XXXTentaction's estate - they are scrapping the barrel on likes not seen since Tupac!), and I will say the first 5 years of posthumous MJ had it's ups and downs but was overall good... but now by sitting around and doing very little, they're not doing a great job either.
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Post by respect77 on Dec 24, 2019 7:08:45 GMT
Oh easily the Michael Jackson Estate. Let's focus on the last 5 years, since that's really when Disney started producing Star Wars products. I might not be overly happy with The Rise of Skywalker and how that now frames the final trilogy, but Disney have still put out multiple good Star Wars products. The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi, Rogue One, Mandalorian, Galaxy's Edge (that Star Wars land thing, which I really wanna go to). Battlefront II has turned out really good and Jedi Fallen Order has been solid so far. There's lots of cool merchandise out there as well now. As opposed to the Michael Jackson Estate who've released... what since December 2014? A repackaging of OTW where the only highlight is the included documentary, which is alright but nothing spectacular imo. Reissues of MJ studio album vinyls (though aside from HIStory, they're not hard to find). A drastically overpriced This Is It boxset that offers almost nothing new, yet costs an arm and a leg? I'm aware there is an upcoming Broadway play in the works, but until then, there hasn't exactly been much new this last half decade. I mean fans argue back and forth over how good the various Disney Star Wars offerings are, we've had our fair share here on this forum, but most people can find things to enjoy in at least some of their new releases. And regardless of what you think of them personally, you can't deny that they've done a good job at bringing Star Wars back into the forefront of modern pop culture. Michael Jackson is doing well on his own for a legacy artist, and he managed to handle the Leaving Neverland scandal quite well given the seriousness and attention given to it... but what exactly has the Michael Jackson Estate done for his legacy in the public eye these last few years? Compare to The Beatles and Prince's Estate, who have been releasing these incredible boxsets the last couple of years, bringing their contributions to the arts back to the attention of the media and general public, giving their works the attention and care they deserve! What exactly have the Michael Jackson Estate done like this? The 2016 Off the Wall reissue is almost nothing compared to the mammoth of the Purple Rain, 1999, Sgt Peppers, White Album or Abbey Road deluxe editions. Now I do think they could be doing far worse and scraping the barrel (check out XXXTentaction's estate - they are scrapping the barrel on likes not seen since Tupac!), and I will say the first 5 years of posthumous MJ had it's ups and downs but was overall good... but now by sitting around and doing very little, they're not doing a great job either.
I don't agree that The Last Jedi and The Force Awakens are good SW products, though.
The only really good ones are RO and the Mandalorian. (I don't know about Galaxy's Edge.)
I also don't think it is fair to draw the line at December 2014. I mean the period since MJ's death which does include good projects (ONE, Immortal, Bad25). I am in two minds about TII, on one hand it was successful and a lot of people seemed to have been impressed by it, but to me it feels exploitative and it definitely doesn't represent MJ at his best, in any case it is definitely not something to have a 10th anniversary edition for when you don't have proper anniversaries for MJ's actual main studio albums.
Most releases have been lazy and lacklustre at best. And even if MJ doesn't have as many songs as Prince they could have easily done a similar re-release to any of his albums as how 1999 is done. With alternate takes, demos etc. I am dying to have the original demo of Get on the Floor, for example, where MJ laughs and it has an extra verse. I am sure several other songs have such alternate takes from that album. They would have been perfect for an anniversary release. But no, we get a chalk instead.
And in terms of an insult to your own brand, there's nothing that Disney has done to SW that can top the fake songs.
So yeah, overall I agree, the MJ Estate has done a much worse job. So cool down SW fans, it could be worse! LOL.
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Post by HIStoric on Dec 24, 2019 11:26:02 GMT
I don't agree that The Last Jedi and The Force Awakens are good SW products, though. The only really good ones are RO and the Mandalorian. (I don't know about Galaxy's Edge.) Sure, which is exactly why I said: "I mean fans argue back and forth over how good the various Disney Star Wars offerings are, we've had our fair share here on this forum, but most people can find things to enjoy in at least some of their new releases." If anything, it's good they're catering to different tastes. Aside from liking the original trilogy, it seems every Star Wars fans enjoys different aspects of the pop culture phenomenon. I also don't think it is fair to draw the line at December 2014. I mean the period since MJ's death which does include good projects (ONE, Immortal, Bad25). I am in two minds about TII, on one hand it was successful and a lot of people seemed to have been impressed by it, but to me it feels exploitative and it definitely doesn't represent MJ at his best, in any case it is definitely not something to have a 10th anniversary edition for when you don't have proper anniversaries for MJ's actual main studio albums. Yeah, I just did it since that's when Disney started releasing Star Wars stuff - but yup yup fair fair. If you want to compare everything the Estate has done vs everything Disney has done, I'd still put Disney on top personally. I've enjoyed their offerings much more, even if some like Solo I haven't cared for. But I think the Estate have still done many good releases in the first half. Immortal (both show and album), Bad 25 (album and documentary), Xscape. All good releases imo - great even. It's just significantly slowed down - and it's funny because up until a couple of years ago I used to defend the Estate quite a bit when people attacked them on forums LOL. I enjoyed This Is It, I think everyone understands it's rehearsals and I haven't actually ever really heard anyone criticise MJ for his performances there - but granted I never read reviews at the time of release, which was some time ago so I could be wrong. At the same time, I can understand MJ fans two minds on it. I'm fine with the actual release, but a 10th anniversary edition just seems... weird.
And yeah, no equivalent of fake songs here
Most releases have been lazy and lacklustre at best. And even if MJ doesn't have as many songs as Prince they could have easily done a similar re-release to any of his albums as how 1999 is done. With alternate takes, demos etc. I am dying to have the original demo of Get on the Floor, for example, where MJ laughs and it has an extra verse. I am sure several other songs have such alternate takes from that album. They would have been perfect for an anniversary release. But no, we get a chalk instead. Yeah, I feel the Estate are under the impression you need entirely new content to release something when you really, really don't. There must be a lot of great alternative versions of already released songs sitting in the vault and I really don't know why they have released so few. Like, I understand the need to space out releases but it has been nearly 6 years since the last substantial MJ release (I don't count OTW 2016, I'm talking about music!).
You can't even use the excuse Michael never would've released them, because he released many demos in his lifetime - on those 2001 Special Editions, the Ultimate Collection and Thriller 25. They can't even be as costly as Xscape as they don't have to pay producers to make entirely new songs from them! It sucks because I'll see these new releases by Prince's Estate and The Beatles, and I'll naturally enjoy them, but then I'll wonder what it'd be like to be an MJ fan and receive something like this. The Estate demonstrated with Bad 25 that they are capable of it!
Also no good demos or alternative mixes? All good! Give us an instrumental or something.
I know just that Get on the Floor demo you're talking about - I've heard that extended fan remix (I think by Nick?) that includes some extra verses, laughing and what have you. Absolute joy!
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Post by SmoothGangsta on Dec 25, 2019 13:30:29 GMT
TLJ is my favourite of the trilogy, I quite liked Rogue One but I wouldn't say it's a good movie, though. Fans service central. I've already said my ROS Skywalker thoughts so I won't repeat that here. I don't really understand the comparison between the estate and Disney lol.
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Post by aazzaabb on Dec 25, 2019 13:57:52 GMT
The Star Wars films have been enjoyable. I’m not an expert in them but visually I’ve enjoyed them and overall have been entertained. I’ve not seen The Rise of Skywalker yet and not in much of a hurry, and have no expectations for it which means I’ll probably enjoy it. From what I gather it messes with the timeline and makes certain things that happened irrelevant or different or whatever, which is a bit of a downer especially if it effects the original trilogy.
But I’ll take Disney all day long over the MJ estate. They coast along on MJ’s hard work and exploit it and also the fans devotion. We want that alternative Get On The Floor version. We want all of the demos, the outtakes, the half ideas, the instrumentals, the moments of MJ just talking or laughing in the studio.
As far as estates go, their a fucking disgrace to the greatest entertainer of all time.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 11:14:46 GMT
The Last Jedi is worse than anything the Estate have done.
ONLY MESSING! Not even close. Estate take this poll.
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Post by ghost on Feb 25, 2020 22:22:56 GMT
I guess it depends what you care about more. I can't think of anything Disney have done with Star Wars that could even begin to compare to the Cascio debacle though.
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