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Post by respect77 on Jul 29, 2019 7:16:46 GMT
Also, regarding this new brief by Robson, notice how there's nothing concrete in it. It's all huffing and puffing about how the companies were supposedly aware of the "abuse", but no concrete evidence of it is cited. No concrete claim as to HOW did they know?
With the Catholic Church we know exactly how they knew: they received complaints that they then covered up. But MJ's companies received no such things.
So Robson just makes undefined, vague claims of "knowing" - supposedly the knowledge of MJ hanging out with kids was knowledge of abuse. Ridiculous.
Joy Robson herself knew about MJ hanging out with kids. She knew of kids sleeping in his room. She allowed her own son do so. There was absolutely no information regarding MJ's interactions with kids that the companies knew that Joy Robson didn't know of, as well.
So with what Wade claims now, if it truly wasn't about money but about "justice" and "truth" like he claims, Wade's number one target to sue should be his mother. But of course, he does not sue her. There's not much money to be made of that.
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Post by Thriller on Jul 29, 2019 7:20:49 GMT
If he wanted justice there wouldn't have been a claim against the companies whatsoever. His only case should have been against the Estate. Taking his story as true for a moment, with the defendent deceased, the only way for somebody to seek damages is against somebody's Estate. So, in his case, after that was tossed it should have been the end as he has no case against the companies and he knows it.
Of course, he doesn't care for justice though. 'I want to speak the truth as loud as I spoke the lie' ... after he filed under seal.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2019 8:18:13 GMT
Interestingly, he even claims in the new docs that the MJ estate "concedes for purposes of this appeal that despite being aware of Jackson's pedophilic tendencies, they did nothing to protect other children form such abuse is aware that the child is exposed to a perpetrator who has sexually abused children in the past." anyone else find this slightly worrying? Do MJs estate think hes guilty now? Not in the slightest. If even remotely true, everything would have collapsed.
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Post by respect77 on Jul 29, 2019 15:40:39 GMT
Here's what Norma Staikos should have done to prevent "his abuse", according to Wade Robson's 2016 deposition.
"She could have not facilitated the trip."
Except, she did not!
It was Wade's mother who went out of her way to try to contact MJ! Already back in Australia she contacted television channels to try to find a contact to him! From Joy Robson's deposition:
"She could have called authorities on Michael if she wanted to."
Imagine that situation! Australian family seeks out MJ, deliberately contact him, beg to meet him and then MJ's secretary calls the police ON MJ!
For what the Hell exactly? For a family wanting to meet him? LMAO.
"She was the first line of defense, meaning, you know, it was Norma that my mother got in contact with first, right, that led do me meeting Michael again."
I can't with the idiocy of this story!
His mother basically chases after around MJ but it is Norma's fault that she was kind enough to arrange a meeting with MJ that WADE's FAMILY wanted! This is the story they are selling! No wonder it was left out of Leaving Neverland. People would have seen through the BS then.
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Post by respect77 on Jul 29, 2019 15:47:10 GMT
Actually this is a good point. Wouldn't this all make him a co-conspirator? He supposedly knew about the abuse all along. He even "knew" what MJ and Jordan were doing in the bathroom, right? So doesn't his life-long defense of MJ, including in 2005, make him a co-conspirator?
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Post by elusivemoonwalker on Jul 29, 2019 16:36:40 GMT
The Estate did not even exist until MJ's death. And I just wish the fucking media would start doing their fucking job and not just swallow up anything claims. Put this next to Joy's deposition and the whole thing becomes ridiculous.
I wonder if this new tone about control is already for the lawsuit they want to refile based on the new bill. They know their appeal won't go anywhere. MJ wasn't controlled by his companies and that's it. So they changed track and now he was too powerful to control - and this is already the new tone for the new filing.
It's so infuriating that they really don't research or bring up how much of a mess this all is. I hope this doesn't go anywhere. They have an agenda thats why. His lawyers have no doubt gone running to yahoo giving them info and tit bits for a pro robson article. I really doubt they the media care enough to go search out the filing and write an article. Who bar us knows or cares about the filing? MJ wasn't controlled by his companies and that's it. So they changed track and now he was too powerful to control - and this is already the new tone for the new filing. ---------'--' But who was the one who was supp to be doing the controlling? If the company wasnt liable as mj owned them then does this new law they want to bring in allow them to blane someone else for not controlling mj. If no individual was above mj as he owned the companies then whos to blame?
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Post by Thriller on Jul 29, 2019 22:42:46 GMT
Here's what Norma Staikos should have done to prevent "his abuse", according to Wade Robson's 2016 deposition.
"She could have not facilitated the trip."
Except, she did not!
It was Wade's mother who went out of her way to try to contact MJ! Already back in Australia she contacted television channels to try to find a contact to him! From Joy Robson's deposition:
"She could have called authorities on Michael if she wanted to."
Imagine that situation! Australian family seeks out MJ, deliberately contact him, beg to meet him and then MJ's secretary calls the police ON MJ!
For what the Hell exactly? For a family wanting to meet him? LMAO.
"She was the first line of defense, meaning, you know, it was Norma that my mother got in contact with first, right, that led do me meeting Michael again."
I can't with the idiocy of this story!
His mother basically chases after around MJ but it is Norma's fault that she was kind enough to arrange a meeting with MJ that WADE's FAMILY wanted! This is the story they are selling! No wonder it was left out of Leaving Neverland. People would have seen through the BS then.
How pathetic is this lawsuit? Norma shouldn't have set the meeting up? Regardless of hater conspiracies, and whatever Wade is trying to do, there has never been proof that Norma knew abuse was going on. End of. I notice how, Wade will excuse employees who supposedly saw something if it helps his case. Blanca said in her 2005 testimony 'I saw things with other kids'. She did nothing. So, why isn't he going after her if it's about people who knew? Oh, it's because 1. he thinks she can aid his case and 2. Suing her won't result in millions. In his complaint Wade claims this about employees. Blanca saw MJ and Wade in the shower. Mariano Quindoy witnessed MJ kissing Wade in the back of a car. They say Quindoy saw MJ abuse boys before Wade, including Safechuck. Norma supposedly told Orietta Murdock not to leave her son alone with MJ. Quindoy is dead according to Diane Dimond. So, that leaves Blanca and Murdock. If this is all about justice for people turning a blind eye, why isn't he going after Blanca and Murdock? Instead, he has Blanca deposed to try and aid his case.
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Post by amaya on Jul 29, 2019 22:55:10 GMT
Something I just thought of... The reactions to LN were 'MJ had so much power', 'he got away with it because of his power', 'his fame, power, money is why he stayed out or prison' etc. All we heard was this 'power' rubbish. So, maybe they've changed their story in reaction to that. They want media attention and know going along with 'MJ was too powerful' may grab some headlines. Going with the story of 'MJ could be controlled by employees' would go against the grain. If MJ really had that much power AND, heaven forbid, he was guilty of those things, I don't think we would have heard anything. Look at the accusations against Weinstein and Epstein; they had way more power than Michael ever did and yet nothing came up against them until just recently despite their alleged transgressions going on for decades. It's so infuriating that they really don't research or bring up how much of a mess this all is. I hope this doesn't go anywhere. They have an agenda thats why. His lawyers have no doubt gone running to yahoo giving them info and tit bits for a pro robson article. I really doubt they the media care enough to go search out the filing and write an article. Who bar us knows or cares about the filing? MJ wasn't controlled by his companies and that's it. So they changed track and now he was too powerful to control - and this is already the new tone for the new filing. ---------'--' But who was the one who was supp to be doing the controlling? If the company wasnt liable as mj owned them then does this new law they want to bring in allow them to blane someone else for not controlling mj. If no individual was above mj as he owned the companies then whos to blame? You're so right about the media having an agenda... I wish for once they WOULDN'T. My dad and I actually talked about this recently how the media just doesn't do their job (this was over a non-MJ thing) and just wants to stir shit and get people riled up.
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Post by Thriller on Jul 29, 2019 23:06:10 GMT
amaya - Spot on about not hearing anything. I've thought about this before. This is the thing haters and co ignore. MJ was the most famous man in the world. He was the biggest name in entertainment. If anything, he'd be the ring leader.
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Post by Vega on Jul 30, 2019 0:19:22 GMT
amaya - Spot on about not hearing anything. I've thought about this before. This is the thing haters and co ignore. MJ was the most famous man in the world. He was the biggest name in entertainment. If anything, he'd be the ring leader. Yes - he had an entire amusement park for christ's sake. I've brought this up to hater types and they usually say "but he was only interested in building long term romantic relationships with boys, not molesting random ones at Neverland", which is ludicrous and would make him a very atypical pedophile.
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Post by Thriller on Jul 30, 2019 0:52:23 GMT
amaya - Spot on about not hearing anything. I've thought about this before. This is the thing haters and co ignore. MJ was the most famous man in the world. He was the biggest name in entertainment. If anything, he'd be the ring leader. Yes - he had an entire amusement park for christ's sake. I've brought this up to hater types and they usually say "but he was only interested in building long term romantic relationships with boys, not molesting random ones at Neverland", which is ludicrous and would make him a very atypical pedophile. I guess that's one way of trying to defend why he doesn't have hundreds of accusers. However, if they believe Wade then surely they must believe his claim of MJ's companies secretly being the 'most sophisticated public child sexual abuse procurement and facilitation organisation the world has known.' Going by that claim then hundreds and hundreds of children would have been molested. Also, the figures range for the average number of children a child molester molests. However, they all seem to be high numbers. According to here, they say it's 260. yellodyno.com/Statistics/statistics_child_molester.htmlIt also makes little sense for MJ to have long term friendships with children who say nothing ever happened. Another big factor is the supposed profile of MJ. Jordan was 13 and Gavin was 12 or 13 when supposed abuse began. Wade was 7 and James was 10. The latter two want to make out that when they began puberty MJ lost interest and abuse became less frequent/ended. That contradicts the story of Jordan and Gavin. And the supposed long term relationships is debateable. MJ may have known these people for a while, but actual time spent with them is very different. Gavin moaned on the stand that MJ changed his numbers and didn't give him the new ones. Gavin even said he felt MJ was avoiding him. Add to that, they hadn't seen each other in a while before filming for the Bashir documentary. Wade is a very debateable one as well. For six months Joy cut MJ off as he didn't ring Wade from the Dangerous Tour (the same tour he took Brett, the Cascios and 3T on, despite Wade making MJ out to have an insatiable desire for him. 'Whenever we were together, it happened'.) Joy also said in her 2005 testimony that from her memory, in 14 years of being in the US they'd been at Neverland, when MJ was there, only FOUR times! Sneddon made sure to ask if that included Wade and she said yes. Joy also stated in her deposition there would be times when Wade would sleep in MJ's room at his condo and other children would be there (and Emmanuel Lewis but I think she thought he was a child lol when he'd be 20 at the time).
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Post by Vega on Jul 30, 2019 2:15:43 GMT
HIStoric It really is interesting how all the allegations, on some level, contradict each other and paint Michael Jackson as a different kind of predator with each molestation. Sometimes he hands out pills and wine - sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes he goes after boyish 7 year olds (Wade), other times he prefers fairly physically mature teenagers (Gavin - who was 13/14 and said the abuse only started AFTER the Bashir documentary). Sometimes he sodomizes, sometimes he doesn't. Obviously the age and predation differences doesn't prove anything didn't happen by itself - but it really is interesting to compare to some of the big name sex predators who have been exposed recently -guys like Jeff Epstein and R. Kelly who had a definite modus operandi.
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Post by respect77 on Jul 30, 2019 3:07:53 GMT
Yes - he had an entire amusement park for christ's sake. I've brought this up to hater types and they usually say "but he was only interested in building long term romantic relationships with boys, not molesting random ones at Neverland", which is ludicrous and would make him a very atypical pedophile. I guess that's one way of trying to defend why he doesn't have hundreds of accusers. However, if they believe Wade then surely they must believe his claim of MJ's companies secretly being the 'most sophisticated public child sexual abuse procurement and facilitation organisation the world has known.' Going by that claim then hundreds and hundreds of children would have been molested. Also, the figures range for the average number of children a child molester molests. However, they all seem to be high numbers. According to here, they say it's 260. yellodyno.com/Statistics/statistics_child_molester.htmlIt also makes little sense for MJ to have long term friendships with children who say nothing ever happened. Another big factor is the supposed profile of MJ. Jordan was 13 and Gavin was 12 or 13 when supposed abuse began. Wade was 7 and James was 10. The latter two want to make out that when they began puberty MJ lost interest and abuse became less frequent/ended. That contradicts the story of Jordan and Gavin. And the supposed long term relationships is debateable. MJ may have known these people for a while, but actual time spent with them is very different. Gavin moaned on the stand that MJ changed his numbers and didn't give him the new ones. Gavin even said he felt MJ was avoiding him. Add to that, they hadn't seen each other in a while before filming for the Bashir documentary. Wade is a very debateable one as well. For six months Joy cut MJ off as he didn't ring Wade from the Dangerous Tour (the same tour he took Brett, the Cascios and 3T on, despite Wade making MJ out to have an insatiable desire for him. 'Whenever we were together, it happened'.) Joy also said in her 2005 testimony that from her memory, in 14 years of being in the US they'd been at Neverland, when MJ was there, only FOUR times! Sneddon made sure to ask if that included Wade and she said yes. Joy also stated in her deposition there would be times when Wade would sleep in MJ's room at his condo and other children would be there (and Emmanuel Lewis but I think she thought he was a child lol when he'd be 20 at the time). Jason Francia also didn't have a long time relationship with him. Wade actually didn't, either. His claim is that MJ started molesting him right away on the first or second night they met him in 1990. Other than a short meet and greet in 1987,there was no relationship between them before that. Like you pointed out, Gavin didn't really have a long time relationship with him either. So out of the 5 accusers 3 actually doesn't fit into that hater theory of "only molesting boys with whom he had a long time "romantic" relationship". A pedophile who has no problem molesting a 7 year old on the first night, without building up bullet proof coaching before, should have had hundreds of victims. And yes, when you put these stories side by side and look at the details, he would have been the most patternless abuser ever. His MO is all over the place. Over a year grooming with James, but nothing with Wade. Alcohol to Gavin and James, but but no one else. Child porn to James but no one else. Sex tape, marriage with James but no one else. Anal with Wade and James but only milder acts with later boys. It doesn't actually make sense because pedophiles typically escalate over time. They do milder acts first and once they don't satisfy him any more they move to more heavy stuff. It has well defined psychological reasons why that's so. In this case things escalate in the order of how these allegations were made, not in the order of the supposed events. It points to later accusers taking stories from previous ones and escalating them further, rather than an escalation pattern by the abuser.
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Post by Vega on Jul 30, 2019 3:19:48 GMT
It's interesting how the Jane Doe case has been mothballed by haters. I'm not overly familiar with her lawsuit, but doesn't she have about as much "proof" as Wadechuck? I think she even had a photo of her with Michael - proof enough to be believed, right?
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Post by Thriller on Jul 30, 2019 3:36:17 GMT
It's interesting how the Jane Doe case has been mothballed by haters. I'm not overly familiar with her lawsuit, but doesn't she have about as much "proof" as Wadechuck? I think she even had a photo of her with Michael - proof enough to be believed, right? Jane Doe had them in a frantic spin. Haters had peddled MJ only liked boys for years... and then comes Jane Doe. The mental gymnastics they went through. I remember one saying 'maybe he tried girls first' lol. Jane Doe's 'proof' was cheques MJ had sent her. She claimed these were cheques to keep her quiet about the sexual abuse. Yet, once again, the world's worst child molester decides to do the ridiculous, and also send cheques in the name of Jane Doe's best friend and boyfriend. MJ even sent her one of these cheques during the Chandler saga. Genius from him! Jane Doe, just like James and Wade, had a 'realisation' of her own. She claimed that she realised only in September 2016 all her issues (anxiety and depression etc) were due to the sexual abuse she'd suffered. Her small document was chocked full of holes or questionable aspects. She even had three reasons for not coming forward sooner. 1. MJ had paid her to keep quiet. 2. MJ and Frank Dileo (two dead men) threatened her to keep quiet. She then saw Wade hadn't been hurt and came forward. 3. One of the lawyers, on a radio show, claimed she came forward after the Estate said 'he was around girls as well and didn't abuse them' and she said 'well, he abused me'. Actually, the Estate never said any such thing. Not in public at least. Nor in court documents available on the internet. So, the only possible way she could hear such a thing (if the Estate even said it in court) would be through the lawyers. These lawyers are known for victim fishing, might I add. When the Estate noted they may look to have her anonymity removed, she dropped her case. On her anonymity, I wondered if her parents didn't know. I say this, because in a radio interview Finaldi was asked about this child receiving cheques and what did her parents think. Finaldi said he wasn't sure if her parents knew. WTF? A woman tells you MJ was sending her cheques as a child to keep quiet about abuse, and you, especially as her lawyer, don't ask if her parents knew? BS.
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