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Post by aazzaabb on Feb 9, 2019 22:58:53 GMT
Guys, I'm worn out from defending MJ. I've not slept in days and am a little high and a bit delirious from lack of sleep.
I've walked into this one admittedly and have hit a wall where I'm too sleep deprive reply to.
Can someone counter this for me so I can leave it at that and take a break. Appreciate I any help of you.
Quote; No, I was not trolling and I apologize if you have perceived it that way. It was an heartfelt response on a topic that I consider very serious. I genuinely find very funny the way you proclaim MJ innocence, like if you knew him in person. I haven't watched the documentary yet, but you said nothing about Corey Haim who allegedly was raped by MJ or Corey Feldman who accused MJ to show him pornography when he was a prepubescent boy. Both Coreys were really good friends with MJ, so why they turned ther back on him? There are so many accusations from so many different boys against him. Some allegations have been proved false, but not all of them. On top of that there are hard facts like that he had child pornography locked near his bed and that his behavior among kids was unconventional to the eyes of anyone around him. It would make sense IF he was a pedophile...I'm not saying that he is guilty. However I think that we cannot be 100%sure that he was innocent. I mean it's not like you know it so well like a friend... his real friends turned the back on him ....you never met him so how can be so sure to know his darkest secrets? Quote
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Post by danm on Feb 9, 2019 23:38:08 GMT
Guys, I'm worn out from defending MJ. I've not slept in days and am a little high and a bit delirious from lack of sleep. I've walked into this one admittedly and have hit a wall where I'm too sleep deprive reply to. Can someone counter this for me so I can leave it at that and take a break. Appreciate I any help of you. Quote; No, I was not trolling and I apologize if you have perceived it that way. It was an heartfelt response on a topic that I consider very serious. I genuinely find very funny the way you proclaim MJ innocence, like if you knew him in person. I haven't watched the documentary yet, but you said nothing about Corey Haim who allegedly was raped by MJ or Corey Feldman who accused MJ to show him pornography when he was a prepubescent boy. Both Coreys were really good friends with MJ, so why they turned ther back on him? There are so many accusations from so many different boys against him. Some allegations have been proved false, but not all of them. On top of that there are hard facts like that he had child pornography locked near his bed and that his behavior among kids was unconventional to the eyes of anyone around him. It would make sense IF he was a pedophile...I'm not saying that he is guilty. However I think that we cannot be 100%sure that he was innocent. I mean it's not like you know it so well like a friend... his real friends turned the back on him ....you never met him so how can be so sure to know his darkest secrets? Quote My first piece of advice would be to not bother engaging with someone like that. There are so many factual inaccuracies in what that person said it’s laughable. Just be brief and to the point. Yes, none of us knew MJ personally. We can’t prove his innocence (yet we all believe in his innocence). This is because we have spent years researching the evidence, reading trial transcripts, witness testimonies and depositions. We all know the backgrounds and have catalogued evidence of the lies and motives of MJ’s accusers. In terms of the points that person has made, just rebut them one by one: - Corey Haim never accused MJ of rape or any inappropriate behaviour. That is a lie. - Corey Feldman never accused MJ of showing him pornography. He allegedly showed him a book about venereal disease at a time in Corey’s life when he was living on the edge. He wasn’t a prepubescent boy at that time either. Feldman said as recently as last year that MJ was innocent and never did anything to him. Find the video. - MJ has never been found in possession of any child porn. He would have been charged if they had found anything and found guilty of this crime. All they found were legal, adult magazines. - “Unconventional” behaviour is not criminal. MJ was different, and many adults who spent time with MJ as children consistently state he never acted inappropriately with them, including Wade and Jimmy who subsequently changed their stories and filed lawsuits against the Estate looking for money. - His real friends have not turned their backs on him. Out of he three men who testified for his defence in 2005, 2 of them stand by that today, and the other (Wade Robson) only changed his story 4 years after MJ’s death. After continuing to praise Jackson effusively after he died. The bottom line is MJ was investigated intensively during his life, was on trial and was acquitted. This film is based on posthumous accusations from two men who have changed their stories, have tried to get money and have lied repeatedly in the process. They don’t have any credibility.
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Post by pg13 on Feb 9, 2019 23:42:04 GMT
Can someone counter this for me so I can leave it at that and take a break. Appreciate I any help of you. Break it down into pieces. No, Corey Feldman didn't accuse MJ of showing him pornography. It was a book on venereal diseases. Corey Haim didn't make any claim of sexual abuse against Michael Jackson. Ed Meyer claimed Haim told him MJ and Charlie Sheen abused him. Here's Ed Meyer's words: Then, there's this clip of Corey Haim defending and praising Michael Jackson after MJ passed: youtu.be/nM34Lg-15AkMJ didn't meet Haim until he was 22,so obviously not a child. Here's Corey Feldman's recollection of this first meeting: Mind you, Feldman is quite flaky towards Michael, largely as a result of post-9/11. Here: www.eonline.com/news/49222/corey-feldman-s-michael-memories Absolutely NO child porn was found anywhere in Neverland! There was also no child porn on any of the computers at Neverland. If such material had ever been found, Michael Jackson would have been charged in relation to possessing child porn at the very least. He was never charged. This proves absolutely nothing and several people around Michael Jackson didn't think there was anything wrong with it. No need to get into this too much, but this person has already been shown to be wrong on the above points. So, what makes him so sure his/her suspicions are remotely correct when they're based on inaccuracies? Ask who are these "real" friends they're referring to? His attempted point there is too vague to bother much with.
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Post by pg13 on Feb 9, 2019 23:58:28 GMT
Another thing, I saw a picture on Twitter of a London red bus with an MJ Innocent picture plastered over it. Please tell me it's a fake? I know fans mean well, but talk about giving the programme free publicity. I bet HBO and Channel 4 are laughing theirs heads off at MJ fans. I told the person who was trying to do it that maybe that would do more harm than good and was basically told to shut up Yes, we've talked about that. Seány's blurb makes it clear that the objective is NOT to educate the general public in London. The public already know fans are out there. But the overall problem with this kind of thing is that it actually strengthens rather than weakens existing beliefs of MJ being a pervert. This is a drawback with direct refutation which is why you need to switch to indirect refutation such as discrediting someone else. And they'll be even less inclined to check out the website too knowing it's a fan site that's been pushed in their faces. The posters are going to mention Robson and Safechuck wanting $1.5 billion even though this isn't specified in their complaints. Not a good idea. On top of that, Seány refuses to clarify the missing money. He wants £5,000, but the costs provided on the fundraiser itself comes to just over £7,000. This guy ducks and ignores very reasonable questions and constructive criticism. This along with his planned protest at Channel 4 HQ are badly advised. Certainly isn't the way to counter propaganda.
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Post by aazzaabb on Feb 10, 2019 0:14:31 GMT
Nice one danm! I'm half dead from I t and my brain is just done in. Thank you massively. I'll use this info and then sign off on this one. Thanks again.
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Post by Snow White on Feb 10, 2019 0:30:42 GMT
The media in general loves to portay the fandom as crazy, deranged fanatics. If people put MJ pictures on London buses, they'd give the media the perfect excuse to label the fans as such.
Putting the facts on social media, YT videos like the one respect and Jackson Passion put together and the documentary rebuttal Taj and the estate are preparing would be the most effective way to make damage control. Michael doesn't need more circus attached to him, even if these fans mean well.
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Post by respect77 on Feb 10, 2019 4:38:05 GMT
Guys, I'm worn out from defending MJ. I've not slept in days and am a little high and a bit delirious from lack of sleep. I've walked into this one admittedly and have hit a wall where I'm too sleep deprive reply to. Can someone counter this for me so I can leave it at that and take a break. Appreciate I any help of you. Quote; No, I was not trolling and I apologize if you have perceived it that way. It was an heartfelt response on a topic that I consider very serious. I genuinely find very funny the way you proclaim MJ innocence, like if you knew him in person. I haven't watched the documentary yet, but you said nothing about Corey Haim who allegedly was raped by MJ or Corey Feldman who accused MJ to show him pornography when he was a prepubescent boy. Both Coreys were really good friends with MJ, so why they turned ther back on him? There are so many accusations from so many different boys against him. Some allegations have been proved false, but not all of them. On top of that there are hard facts like that he had child pornography locked near his bed and that his behavior among kids was unconventional to the eyes of anyone around him. It would make sense IF he was a pedophile...I'm not saying that he is guilty. However I think that we cannot be 100%sure that he was innocent. I mean it's not like you know it so well like a friend... his real friends turned the back on him ....you never met him so how can be so sure to know his darkest secrets? Quote
People just make up shit as they talk.
Corey Haim didn't even know MJ as a child! When you read Corey Feldman's book Haim and MJ first met after the 1993 allegations when Haim was 22 years old.
This is from Corey Feldman's book:
And here is Haim talking about MJ.
As for Feldman, no MJ did not show him pornography. When Corey was mad at MJ in 2005, he threw in that story about MJ once "showing him" a book about venereal diseases. What actually happened was that they were going somewhere and Feldman noticed this book MJ had and MJ explained to him what it was. That was it. A book about venereal diseases is hardly sexy. And there was nothing with that. It wasn't used as grooming, no sexual approach or anything followed it. They just went on about their business after that. They went to Disneyland or something.
In fact, Feldman said even in 2005 that he didn't think anything of it at the time. It wasn't in a context that was creepy or weird or suspicious. But in 2005 he just had to bring it up I guess, when he needed a story to shade MJ out of some petty revenge for leaving him in New York at 9/11.
And how many times we have to explain that this BS about child pornography is not true.
Are these idiots even aware of the law? That if child porn had been found in MJ's possession he would have been charged with it as it is a federal crime? The porn that was found near his bed was heterosexual, adult, legal pornography. These magazines. That's the porn that was found:
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Post by elusivemoonwalker on Feb 10, 2019 9:29:14 GMT
Reading that list is ruining my image of mike 😲😂😇
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Post by aazzaabb on Feb 10, 2019 10:24:16 GMT
Reading that list is ruining my image of mike 😲😂😇 Imagine being humiliated for being a fucking normal man! And still they attempt to twist it! I need a holiday. I really need a holiday.
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Post by kremlinshadow on Feb 10, 2019 11:36:41 GMT
Reading that list is ruining my image of mike 😲😂😇 I need a holiday. I really need a holiday. You're just making a rod for your own back, they aren't listening to you. If they were genuinely interested in the truth they would of looked it up for themselves, they love the scandal and the conflict with others that comes with it. Louis Theroux, Perez Hilton and others now jumping on the bandwagon for the clicks and attention, talent-less media whores. If anyone should know how to make a documentary and not be biased it would be Louis, but here he is taking sides and saying how he gives credit to Dan, Wade & Jimmy, deflecting his involvement with Saville can be the only reason he's doing so, again someone using Michael to take attention away from their own wrongdoings, just like Weinstein and crew. 99% of these people have no interest in understanding or knowing of the man's innocence, they are just enjoying the ride and attention and what they can get out of it so you're just wasting your time and health, save it for when this thing actually airs.
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Post by respect77 on Feb 10, 2019 11:39:17 GMT
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Post by pg13 on Feb 10, 2019 12:28:26 GMT
I need a holiday. I really need a holiday. You're just making a rod for your own back, they aren't listening to you. If they were genuinely interested in the truth they would of looked it up for themselves, they love the scandal and the conflict with others that comes with it. Louis Theroux, Perez Hilton and others now jumping on the bandwagon for the clicks and attention, talent-less media whores. If anyone should know how to make a documentary and not be biased it would be Louis, but here he is taking sides and saying how he gives credit to Dan, Wade & Jimmy, deflecting his involvement with Saville can be the only reason he's doing so, again someone using Michael to take attention away from their own wrongdoings, just like Weinstein and crew. 99% of these people have no interest in understanding or knowing of the man's innocence, they are just enjoying the ride and attention and what they can get out of it so you're just wasting your time and health, save it for when this thing actually airs. On the contrary, one should really think that the real target are those people who literally lurk in the comments section. It is THEY who are the floaters aka sitting on the fence. People who post are, on the whole, usually entrenched in their own views and often can't be shifted. But the lurkers are the real targets. Not actual posters.
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Post by danm on Feb 10, 2019 12:37:20 GMT
I need a holiday. I really need a holiday. You're just making a rod for your own back, they aren't listening to you. If they were genuinely interested in the truth they would of looked it up for themselves, they love the scandal and the conflict with others that comes with it. Louis Theroux, Perez Hilton and others now jumping on the bandwagon for the clicks and attention, talent-less media whores. If anyone should know how to make a documentary and not be biased it would be Louis, but here he is taking sides and saying how he gives credit to Dan, Wade & Jimmy, deflecting his involvement with Saville can be the only reason he's doing so, again someone using Michael to take attention away from their own wrongdoings, just like Weinstein and crew. 99% of these people have no interest in understanding or knowing of the man's innocence, they are just enjoying the ride and attention and what they can get out of it so you're just wasting your time and health, save it for when this thing actually airs. It’s a shame because I do like many of Louis Theroux’s documentaries. However, he made that ridiculous one about MJ many years ago where he interviewed Terry George. He is jumping on the bandwagon likes lots of other public figures, from a position of relative ignorance. The problem with MJ is people feel more able to publish lies about him because they think the public are more likely to believe it. He is and always has been fair game for tabloid fodder. There is little point getting in a fit of rage over it, because it’s a battle we will never win. The only possible way this feeding frenzy would ever end is if someone like Jordan Chandler came out and admitted that MJ never did anything to him. Pigs will fly before that ever happens. So the only thing we can do is confront and correct these lies when it is presented to us, but there is no point seeking out people who spout nonsense. It will only get you down and put a downer on your day. Fight it where it directly confronts you. The Estate have to do the bigger job of getting the truth out there to a wide audience. They are the custodians now of MJ’s legacy and have the platform to expose the lies and get the truth out. Hopefully their letter is just the start of a campaign from them.
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Post by kremlinshadow on Feb 10, 2019 12:52:19 GMT
You're just making a rod for your own back, they aren't listening to you. If they were genuinely interested in the truth they would of looked it up for themselves, they love the scandal and the conflict with others that comes with it. Louis Theroux, Perez Hilton and others now jumping on the bandwagon for the clicks and attention, talent-less media whores. If anyone should know how to make a documentary and not be biased it would be Louis, but here he is taking sides and saying how he gives credit to Dan, Wade & Jimmy, deflecting his involvement with Saville can be the only reason he's doing so, again someone using Michael to take attention away from their own wrongdoings, just like Weinstein and crew. 99% of these people have no interest in understanding or knowing of the man's innocence, they are just enjoying the ride and attention and what they can get out of it so you're just wasting your time and health, save it for when this thing actually airs. On the contrary, one should really think that the real target are those people who literally lurk in the comments section. It is THEY who are the floaters aka sitting on the fence. People who post are, on the whole, usually entrenched in their own views and often can't be shifted. But the lurkers are the real targets. Not actual posters. The floaters if open to anything would surely be doing their own investigation, it's not hard or if they are that lazy then they would be flip-floppers too, so a total waste of energy. What I'm saying is people like Louis, Perez and Stinson don't ever reply to solid evidence it is not within their agenda, attention is. They just light the fire and walk away.
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Post by kremlinshadow on Feb 10, 2019 12:58:39 GMT
You're just making a rod for your own back, they aren't listening to you. If they were genuinely interested in the truth they would of looked it up for themselves, they love the scandal and the conflict with others that comes with it. Louis Theroux, Perez Hilton and others now jumping on the bandwagon for the clicks and attention, talent-less media whores. If anyone should know how to make a documentary and not be biased it would be Louis, but here he is taking sides and saying how he gives credit to Dan, Wade & Jimmy, deflecting his involvement with Saville can be the only reason he's doing so, again someone using Michael to take attention away from their own wrongdoings, just like Weinstein and crew. 99% of these people have no interest in understanding or knowing of the man's innocence, they are just enjoying the ride and attention and what they can get out of it so you're just wasting your time and health, save it for when this thing actually airs. It’s a shame because I do like many of Louis Theroux’s documentaries. Likewise and now I don't think I could watch anymore as I'm questioning the legitimacy of them if this is his attitude to an obvious one-sided fit-up.
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