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Post by HIStoric on Feb 10, 2019 22:37:23 GMT
As much as I dislike the Trump family, Donald has spoken out in support of Michael many times before. I saw a ~2-3 minute compilation a few weeks back.
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Post by pg13 on Feb 11, 2019 0:14:23 GMT
They really shouldn’t be using the $1.5 billion figure. Even the Estate’s letter stated “millions”. Also, all this does is draw more attention to the documentary. If any of you are in the whatsapp group, you'd read I tried to be reasonable with them but they're hell bent on doing this. Yes, they're hellbent on this and if you don't agree with them they do these: - ignore you - attempt emotional manipulation through ad hominem attacks - hide behind a positivity mantra and tell you to shut up.
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Post by danm on Feb 11, 2019 13:26:14 GMT
Apparently Channel 4 will be airing this on 6th and 7th March at 9pm. Might just go into hibernation that week.
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,468
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Post by TonyR on Feb 11, 2019 13:35:17 GMT
Apparently Channel 4 will be airing this on 6th and 7th March at 9pm. Might just go into hibernation that week. Both days? Or is it over 2 nights?
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Post by pg13 on Feb 11, 2019 13:37:52 GMT
Apparently Channel 4 will be airing this on 6th and 7th March at 9pm. Might just go into hibernation that week. Both days? Or is it over 2 nights? It's in two parts and split over two nights. Two hours long each night.
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,468
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Post by TonyR on Feb 11, 2019 13:47:07 GMT
Both days? Or is it over 2 nights? It's in two parts and split over two nights. Two hours long each night. Overkill, people won't be that invested unless they already have a strong opinion that won't be swayed by a documentary either way. Prediction: If you stay away from Twitter & news feeds you can easily not even know this is happening. But if you choose to actively look then this will hurt you.
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Post by respect77 on Feb 11, 2019 13:50:32 GMT
Someone from Santa Barbara
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Post by respect77 on Feb 11, 2019 13:59:13 GMT
Estate writes a letter to Channel4 too, warning them they violate their own own ethical guidelines by not giving them a platform to reply.
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Post by danm on Feb 11, 2019 14:02:13 GMT
It's in two parts and split over two nights. Two hours long each night. Overkill, people won't be that invested unless they already have a strong opinion that won't be swayed by a documentary either way. Prediction: If you stay away from Twitter & news feeds you can easily not even know this is happening. But if you choose to actively look then this will hurt you. Agree to an extent. I'm dreading early March due to the predictable reaction this will get. The sooner it's over the better. My main concern is how this will affect MJ's legacy into the future. We live in an age where the pressure will be on to start banishing Mj and his music from public spaces due to these "new revelations" - which are not new, and certainly not revelations. The Estate will no doubt fight back, but I'm unsure how people will react to it. Most people don't have the time, interest or inclination to delve into the hard facts. They will watch the documentary or read about the accusations at a superficial level and assume he must be guilty. I just wonder where we'll all be in a year's time - hopefully it won't be taboo to play his music on radio, for his music to remain on sale in shops and on streaming sites and for MJ themed shows such as Cirque to continue. There are still many, many people who believe in MJ's innocence, but the people who make the big decisions may bow to pressure or decide they no longer want to be associated with a music figure who has been accused of these crimes. Since 2005, and moreso since his death, MJ has been largely celebrated becuase he was acquitted and many people who were unsure gave him the benefit of the doubt (because of the '05 acquittal). I have a fear that this could change all that. Sorry for sounding defeatist. I think it's just now knowing there is an air date that it is starting to hit home more. Let's hope the Estate have something else planned to get the truth out there and discredit this documentary before it airs.
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,468
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Post by TonyR on Feb 11, 2019 14:10:32 GMT
Overkill, people won't be that invested unless they already have a strong opinion that won't be swayed by a documentary either way. Prediction: If you stay away from Twitter & news feeds you can easily not even know this is happening. But if you choose to actively look then this will hurt you. Agree to an extent. I'm dreading early March due to the predictable reaction this will get. The sooner it's over the better. My main concern is how this will affect MJ's legacy into the future. We live in an age where the pressure will be on to start banishing Mj and his music from public spaces due to these "new revelations" - which are not new, and certainly not revelations. The Estate will no doubt fight back, but I'm unsure how people will react to it. Most people don't have the time, interest or inclination to delve into the hard facts. They will watch the documentary or read about the accusations at a superficial level and assume he must be guilty. I just wonder where we'll all be in a year's time - hopefully it won't be taboo to play his music on radio, for his music to remain on sale in shops and on streaming sites and for MJ themed shows such as Cirque to continue. There are still many, many people who believe in MJ's innocence, but the people who make the big decisions may bow to pressure or decide they no longer want to be associated with a music figure who has been accused of these crimes. Since 2005, and moreso since his death, MJ has been largely celebrated becuase he was acquitted and many people who were unsure gave him the benefit of the doubt (because of the '05 acquittal). I have a fear that this could change all that. Sorry for sounding defeatist. I think it's just now knowing there is an air date that it is starting to hit home more. Let's hope the Estate have something else planned to get the truth out there and discredit this documentary before it airs. I'm 99% sure none of that will come true. Reasons? 1. If it hadn't been for here, I wouldn't even know about this film (it was on BBC site for 12 hours, the restored George Harrison interview was on for 48). Yes the C4 airing may bring it back but not sure why they'd rehash the story. 2. I don't think there's a will to mute MJ, he's too much a part of pop history and would be amazingly hard to delete. Every chart show, compilation album, Motown, music TV channel. Impossible to do. 3. No-one fucking cares. And by that I'm ignoring us (his hardcore fans) and them (the hardcore hater(z). The 90% in the middle...YESTERDAY'S NEWS. Yes there'll always be the innuendo (141) and the sniggers and the comments, but I can live with that. But this is not going to take us over the edge of a cliff no matter how rocky it looks.
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Post by respect77 on Feb 11, 2019 14:10:44 GMT
[ Since 2005, and moreso since his death, MJ has been largely celebrated becuase he was acquitted and many people who were unsure gave him the benefit of the doubt (because of the '05 acquittal). I have a fear that this could change all that. And this shows how fucked up this whole one sided trial by the media crap is. The rule is "innocent until proven guilty". A one sided propaganda piece does not prove anyone guilty. I wish people would realize that and acted accordingly.
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Post by respect77 on Feb 11, 2019 14:17:41 GMT
And BTW, this is why I feel MJ's family needs to come out and appear in the media to defend him. His adult children in particular, because his defense needs to have a human face, rather than just Estate letters that no one reads but us. Taj was great on TV, he needs to continue. Eloquent and, unlike Jeremaine, he seems to have learned about the allegations. He is also particularly important, along with Brandi, because they were around MJ when these two frauds were, they can give their first hand information. For example pointing out that Wade dated Brandi and another one of MJ's nieces while he now claims was "in love" with MJ is a good one. Things like that, a human face make all the difference for people.
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Post by danm on Feb 11, 2019 14:20:38 GMT
Agree to an extent. I'm dreading early March due to the predictable reaction this will get. The sooner it's over the better. My main concern is how this will affect MJ's legacy into the future. We live in an age where the pressure will be on to start banishing Mj and his music from public spaces due to these "new revelations" - which are not new, and certainly not revelations. The Estate will no doubt fight back, but I'm unsure how people will react to it. Most people don't have the time, interest or inclination to delve into the hard facts. They will watch the documentary or read about the accusations at a superficial level and assume he must be guilty. I just wonder where we'll all be in a year's time - hopefully it won't be taboo to play his music on radio, for his music to remain on sale in shops and on streaming sites and for MJ themed shows such as Cirque to continue. There are still many, many people who believe in MJ's innocence, but the people who make the big decisions may bow to pressure or decide they no longer want to be associated with a music figure who has been accused of these crimes. Since 2005, and moreso since his death, MJ has been largely celebrated becuase he was acquitted and many people who were unsure gave him the benefit of the doubt (because of the '05 acquittal). I have a fear that this could change all that. Sorry for sounding defeatist. I think it's just now knowing there is an air date that it is starting to hit home more. Let's hope the Estate have something else planned to get the truth out there and discredit this documentary before it airs. I'm 99% sure none of that will come true. Reasons? 1. If it hadn't been for here, I wouldn't even know about this film (it was on BBC site for 12 hours, the restored George Harrison interview was on for 48). Yes the C4 airing may bring it back but not sure why they'd rehash the story. 2. I don't think there's a will to mute MJ, he's too much a part of pop history and would be amazingly hard to delete. Every chart show, compilation album, Motown, music TV channel. Impossible to do. 3. No-one fucking cares. And by that I'm ignoring us (his hardcore fans) and them (the hardcore hater(z). The 90% in the middle...YESTERDAY'S NEWS. Yes there'll always be the innuendo (141) and the sniggers and the comments, but I can live with that. But this is not going to take us over the edge of a cliff no matter how rocky it looks. I really hope you're right. My skepticism is just knowing the age we live in. I personally think Estate representatives, in particular John Branca as the public face of the Estate, will need to get out there on TV around the time this airs and start debunking this nonsense. The letter's are a great start, but they will need to start becoming visible. Not yet, but just before or just after this airs. A few key, well publicised facts could help start casting doubt in people's minds of the veracity of these claims. Particularly the fact that these allegations were made public 6 years ago (most people probably think these claims are brand new), that they've already failed with a lawsuit and creditor's claim (again, some articles do report this, but usually on the last line), they are appealing said lawsuit dismissal and this doc is part of their litigation strategy (as opposed to just getting their stories out there to help the "survivors". it's about money pure and simple), and the fact that they lied repeatedly in their lawsuits to try and get a monetary payout (this again proves they were trying anything they could to get money). The Estate will need to start getting aggressive with this and fight back. The letter's were brilliant but that should only be the start. EDIT: Wade's videos praising MJ also need to be shown more widely.
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Post by Russg on Feb 11, 2019 14:33:26 GMT
Agree to an extent. I'm dreading early March due to the predictable reaction this will get. The sooner it's over the better. My main concern is how this will affect MJ's legacy into the future. We live in an age where the pressure will be on to start banishing Mj and his music from public spaces due to these "new revelations" - which are not new, and certainly not revelations. The Estate will no doubt fight back, but I'm unsure how people will react to it. Most people don't have the time, interest or inclination to delve into the hard facts. They will watch the documentary or read about the accusations at a superficial level and assume he must be guilty. I just wonder where we'll all be in a year's time - hopefully it won't be taboo to play his music on radio, for his music to remain on sale in shops and on streaming sites and for MJ themed shows such as Cirque to continue. There are still many, many people who believe in MJ's innocence, but the people who make the big decisions may bow to pressure or decide they no longer want to be associated with a music figure who has been accused of these crimes. Since 2005, and moreso since his death, MJ has been largely celebrated becuase he was acquitted and many people who were unsure gave him the benefit of the doubt (because of the '05 acquittal). I have a fear that this could change all that. Sorry for sounding defeatist. I think it's just now knowing there is an air date that it is starting to hit home more. Let's hope the Estate have something else planned to get the truth out there and discredit this documentary before it airs. I'm 99% sure none of that will come true. Reasons? 1. If it hadn't been for here, I wouldn't even know about this film (it was on BBC site for 12 hours, the restored George Harrison interview was on for 48). Yes the C4 airing may bring it back but not sure why they'd rehash the story. 2. I don't think there's a will to mute MJ, he's too much a part of pop history and would be amazingly hard to delete. Every chart show, compilation album, Motown, music TV channel. Impossible to do. 3. No-one fucking cares. And by that I'm ignoring us (his hardcore fans) and them (the hardcore hater(z). The 90% in the middle...YESTERDAY'S NEWS. Yes there'll always be the innuendo (141) and the sniggers and the comments, but I can live with that. But this is not going to take us over the edge of a cliff no matter how rocky it looks. Fans who dont think this is going to have a catastrophic impact on MJs legacy are either in denial or high. No more MJ on the radios/TV, campaigns to boycott MJ estate shows, no more airings of TII, Moonwalker, OTW 30, Bad 25 documentaries. This will spell the end of the general publics relationship with MJ. All he will have left is the hardcore fans, who aren't going anywhere. But Joe Public will be done with him after this. Pretending like its no big deal won't change the fact that this is going to be devastating for MJs legacy.
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,468
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Post by TonyR on Feb 11, 2019 14:39:51 GMT
I'm 99% sure none of that will come true. Reasons? 1. If it hadn't been for here, I wouldn't even know about this film (it was on BBC site for 12 hours, the restored George Harrison interview was on for 48). Yes the C4 airing may bring it back but not sure why they'd rehash the story. 2. I don't think there's a will to mute MJ, he's too much a part of pop history and would be amazingly hard to delete. Every chart show, compilation album, Motown, music TV channel. Impossible to do. 3. No-one fucking cares. And by that I'm ignoring us (his hardcore fans) and them (the hardcore hater(z). The 90% in the middle...YESTERDAY'S NEWS. Yes there'll always be the innuendo (141) and the sniggers and the comments, but I can live with that. But this is not going to take us over the edge of a cliff no matter how rocky it looks. Fans who dont think this is going to have a catastrophic impact on MJs legacy are either in denial or high. No more MJ on the radios/TV, campaigns to boycott MJ estate shows, no more airings of TII, Moonwalker, OTW 30, Bad 25 documentaries. This will spell the end of the general publics relationship with MJ. All he will have left is the hardcore fans, who aren't going anywhere. But Joe Public will be done with him after this. Pretending like its no big deal won't change the fact that this is going to be devastating for MJs legacy. Well I'm not high as I don't inhale. But we'll just have to wait & see what HIStory brings. I know we have the internet now but if a fucking court case that was reconstructed nightly and front page news daily for two weeks didn't finish him off then a widely debunked 'documentary' sure as hell won't. I sure hope people aren't somehow willing the worst just to prove themselves right.
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