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Post by kaeleah on Jan 11, 2019 22:35:46 GMT
I've really been starting to get sick of the whole "believe all victims, no matter what" stuff nowadays, much as I hate to admit it, as I think it's gotten way out of hand and is turning into a modern-day witch hunt. This past month an actor was accused of verbal sexual harassment and when several of his co-stars and friends stood up for him on Twitter saying how much they love him and never experienced sexual harrasment, THEY were then raked over the coals for not supporting the alleged victim, with some even threatening to boycott the actresses who defended him. I worry of a similar thing happening with MJ, of the people defending him no longer being good enough in this #Metoo/#Timesup climate. There's this view that the right thing to do is to believe all abuse allegations no matter what with no exceptions, even if it's your friend who you trust being accused.
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Post by aazzaabb on Jan 11, 2019 22:55:56 GMT
Absolutely! Fans lost their shit last year at Quincy Jones but no one else gave a crap. This accusation has been levelled at MJ now for over 25 years. And the same tabloids who took him down sold tribute editions when he died. If his Estate doesn’t sort this issue out once and for all their as much to blame as the people they allow to release this crap. They have the money and resources to tell the truth! They were able to invent a myth with This Is It that everything was hunky dory during MJ’s last days. Now all they have to do is make an in-depth documentary film that once and for all addresses all of the lies and TELLS THE TRUTH!!! Their able to make millions upon millions of pounds and dollars producing shows and albums from MJ. They owe him their loyalty and support. It will be a sad day for this maggot Wade Robson when he gets his MJ karma! I don’t wish evil on anyone but they all fall in the end and he’ll probably wonder “why me?” when it strikes. What goes around comes around. This documentary will possibly blow up for a few days and the same old rags who sold tribute editions will write their usual take-down piece on MJ. The world will continue spinning and in a years time some other person(s) will be trying to sell the world some other fake MJ shit. Estate of Michael Jackson, get your fucking act together!!! I don’t even blame these leaches anymore. I blame MJ’s “people”! That is all. To pick myself up, I just bought Invincible on HDTracks, which is the MOV Vinyl master. It's the one thing I wish and encourage all fans to hear! It's brilliant! The estate won't be aware that an MOV version of Invincible exists because they are too thick. For MJ's 10th Anniversary they'll commission a remix from R Kelly because, you know.....
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Post by aazzaabb on Jan 11, 2019 23:12:38 GMT
I've really been starting to get sick of the whole "believe all victims, no matter what" stuff nowadays, much as I hate to admit it, as I think it's gotten way out of hand and is turning into a modern-day witch hunt. This past month an actor was accused of verbal sexual harassment and when several of his co-stars and friends stood up for him on Twitter saying how much they love him and never experienced sexual harrasment, THEY were then raked over the coals for not supporting the alleged victim, with some even threatening to boycott the actresses who defended him. I worry of a similar thing happening with MJ, of the people defending him no longer being good enough in this #Metoo/#Timesup climate. There's this view that the right thing to do is to believe all abuse allegations no matter what with no exceptions, even if it's your friend who you trust being accused. I watched an interesting piece recently about how we are being controlled and the internet is changing the way we think. It's scary. It's at a point now where a person can't even express a different opinion for the sake of devil's advocacy without their life being threatened. If a person expresses a different opinion against the majority online gawd help them. The wolves are always waiting. MJ's people need to take on this mythical lie about MJ and finally once and for all put it to rest. They need to put a team together, gather the facts, the proof, heck, seek out Jordy Chandler, seek out someone to expose this gawd awful conspiracy that certain people pedal every few years. It's sick and twisted and why are they still slandering his good name?! Running away from a problem does nothing. A statement does nothing! This is a virus that needs to be killed.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2019 23:16:25 GMT
I've really been starting to get sick of the whole "believe all victims, no matter what" stuff nowadays, much as I hate to admit it, as I think it's gotten way out of hand and is turning into a modern-day witch hunt. This past month an actor was accused of verbal sexual harassment and when several of his co-stars and friends stood up for him on Twitter saying how much they love him and never experienced sexual harrasment, THEY were then raked over the coals for not supporting the alleged victim, with some even threatening to boycott the actresses who defended him. I worry of a similar thing happening with MJ, of the people defending him no longer being good enough in this #Metoo/#Timesup climate. There's this view that the right thing to do is to believe all abuse allegations no matter what with no exceptions, even if it's your friend who you trust being accused. I watched an interesting piece recently about how we are being controlled and the internet is changing the way we think. It's scary. It's at a point now where a person can't even express a different opinion for the sake of devil's advocacy without their life being threatened. If a person expresses a different opinion against the majority online gawd help them. The wolves are always waiting. MJ's people need to take on this mythical lie about MJ and finally once and for all put it to rest. They need to put a team together, gather the facts, the proof, heck, seek out Jordy Chandler, seek out someone to expose this gawd awful conspiracy that certain people pedal every few years. It's sick and twisted and why are they still slandering his good name?! Running away from a problem does nothing. A statement does nothing! This is a virus that needs to be killed. Trent Reznor perfectly summed up the way the internet has gone in recent years, especially nowadays when people comment on an important issue and feel that their opinion is the only one “That’s the culture of internet commenting,” he expands, his blood a little up. “The sense of, ‘I have an extreme opinion that I haven’t thought through at all and it’s coming from an uneducated and invalidated place, and I’m going to anonymously announce it to the world.’ Fuck you!”
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Post by SmoothGangsta on Jan 11, 2019 23:28:39 GMT
I mean I will certainly be glad if this just fades away but the estate need to be ready if it doesn't. Documentaries like this can be very convincing especially when they are one sided and present things as fact. People will just believe it.
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Post by SmoothGangsta on Jan 11, 2019 23:41:05 GMT
I've really been starting to get sick of the whole "believe all victims, no matter what" stuff nowadays, much as I hate to admit it, as I think it's gotten way out of hand and is turning into a modern-day witch hunt. This past month an actor was accused of verbal sexual harassment and when several of his co-stars and friends stood up for him on Twitter saying how much they love him and never experienced sexual harrasment, THEY were then raked over the coals for not supporting the alleged victim, with some even threatening to boycott the actresses who defended him. I worry of a similar thing happening with MJ, of the people defending him no longer being good enough in this #Metoo/#Timesup climate. There's this view that the right thing to do is to believe all abuse allegations no matter what with no exceptions, even if it's your friend who you trust being accused. I watched an interesting piece recently about how we are being controlled and the internet is changing the way we think. It's scary. It's at a point now where a person can't even express a different opinion for the sake of devil's advocacy without their life being threatened. If a person expresses a different opinion against the majority online gawd help them. The wolves are always waiting. MJ's people need to take on this mythical lie about MJ and finally once and for all put it to rest. They need to put a team together, gather the facts, the proof, heck, seek out Jordy Chandler, seek out someone to expose this gawd awful conspiracy that certain people pedal every few years. It's sick and twisted and why are they still slandering his good name?! Running away from a problem does nothing. A statement does nothing! This is a virus that needs to be killed. This is exactly how I feel. I keep seeing people saying it'll just go away but this is being put together by large television companies it is not a Netflix style indie film.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2019 23:50:42 GMT
Unbreakable sounds good tonight. Rockin my comfy T since I finished training. Keepin' the faith!
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Post by respect77 on Jan 12, 2019 2:26:29 GMT
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Post by respect77 on Jan 12, 2019 3:22:54 GMT
I've really been starting to get sick of the whole "believe all victims, no matter what" stuff nowadays, much as I hate to admit it, as I think it's gotten way out of hand and is turning into a modern-day witch hunt. This past month an actor was accused of verbal sexual harassment and when several of his co-stars and friends stood up for him on Twitter saying how much they love him and never experienced sexual harrasment, THEY were then raked over the coals for not supporting the alleged victim, with some even threatening to boycott the actresses who defended him. I worry of a similar thing happening with MJ, of the people defending him no longer being good enough in this #Metoo/#Timesup climate. There's this view that the right thing to do is to believe all abuse allegations no matter what with no exceptions, even if it's your friend who you trust being accused. It's an extremely unhealthy culture and extremely harmful. A modern day witch hunt. I see all these things connected in a way: the lynch mob mentality, metoo going this wrong, the rise of populism everywhere etc. While they may seem not connected, but I actually think they are. I think what we witness now is how its extreme takes over everything sooner than later. Politics, social movements, etc. There is hardly a place for informed, balanced consideration. They claim it's because of social media and the Internet, but in MJ's case it's not. The mainstream media has always been extremely unfair to him. When I think about it now, there are very few really fair documentaries about him, especially when it comes to his private life. Most what they produce about him is tabloidsh crap - and not just the tabloids. It's amazing to me that 25 years on the media still hasn't done their homework about the allegations against him. It would be so easy to find and read all the material that we have. They still promote superficial fallacies, like "he bought his way out of jail" in 1993, when all you have to do is to do a little research about the legalities surrounding the settlement and the case itself. Hell, it is in the Chandlers' own damn book how that settlement came about! It wasn't MJ pushing for it. You don't have to be pro-MJ, but all these years I have never seen an article explaining the settlement in a fair and balanced way. Actually, I have seen one just recently. It is an article from 1994. I have never read it before someone posted it on Twitter this week. But this is a very rare bird. Most articles will just spout superficial fallacies. The Chandlers and their lawyer cleverly played the system in 1993. When will that story ever be told in the media? And the irony is, that it is right there in the Chandlers' own book! And the settlement is just one example. Often the media even promotes complete falsehoods when it comes to MJ. Just see how the fake "child porn" story and the fake "FBI files" story went viral - and not only in tabloids. Hardly any publications fact checked it. The only publication who reached out to Santa Barbara police and Zonen to ask about the "child porn" was People. I give that to them. But the rest? They just ran with the story. You know the level of unfairness MJ faces in the media when Zonen is more fair to him than the media is. All I ever see is in the media about MJ, especially in articles that aren't just about his music, is an extreme bias and malice against him. Not just in tabloids, although they are certainly the worst offenders. But papers like the Guardian, the Independent and the Telegraph have always been extremely nasty towards him as well. You see respected documentary makers like Louis Theroux immediately take people with extremely compromised credibility, such as Terry George, at face value. This man has always only told his story in tabloids like the Sun, but when it came to testifying he was running scared. So why are you promoting him as if he is credible? People rarely ever realize that reading one article or watching a documentary will not necessarily make you know all about a case. Especially if it is full of lies and falsehoods, like most documentaries about MJ are. Just think of those horrible ones from 2005 (Michael Jackson's Boys, Jacques Peretti, Michael Jackson's World etc). Channel 4, which (along with HBO) commissioned this Wade "documentary" answered to fans' concerned e-mails, saying they have "an excellent track record for investigative journalism"? Really? They actually seem to have an axe-to-grind when it comes to MJ. Their "excellent" investigators in the past included people like NBC too This man was court ordered to pay MJ $2.7 million for making up slanderous lies about him (not to mention writing a book which supports pedophilia), but when it comes to MJ there are just no boundaries, no fairness, no journalistic standards. It's extremely frustrating.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2019 6:16:03 GMT
I've really been starting to get sick of the whole "believe all victims, no matter what" stuff nowadays, much as I hate to admit it, as I think it's gotten way out of hand and is turning into a modern-day witch hunt. This past month an actor was accused of verbal sexual harassment and when several of his co-stars and friends stood up for him on Twitter saying how much they love him and never experienced sexual harrasment, THEY were then raked over the coals for not supporting the alleged victim, with some even threatening to boycott the actresses who defended him. I worry of a similar thing happening with MJ, of the people defending him no longer being good enough in this #Metoo/#Timesup climate. There's this view that the right thing to do is to believe all abuse allegations no matter what with no exceptions, even if it's your friend who you trust being accused. It's an extremely unhealthy culture and extremely harmful. A modern day witch hunt. I see all these things connected in a way: the lynch mob mentality, metoo going this wrong, the rise of populism everywhere etc. While they may seem not connected, but I actually think they are. I think what we witness now is how its extreme takes over everything sooner than later. Politics, social movements, etc. There is hardly a place for informed, balanced consideration. They claim it's because of social media and the Internet, but in MJ's case it's not. The mainstream media has always been extremely unfair to him. When I think about it now, there are very few really fair documentaries about him, especially when it comes to his private life. Most what they produce about him is tabloidsh crap - and not just the tabloids. It's amazing to me that 25 years on the media still hasn't done their homework about the allegations against him. It would be so easy to find and read all the material that we have. They still promote superficial fallacies, like "he bought his way out of jail" in 1993, when all you have to do is to do a little research about the legalities surrounding the settlement and the case itself. Hell, it is in the Chandlers' own damn book how that settlement came about! It wasn't MJ pushing for it. You don't have to be pro-MJ, but all these years I have never seen an article explaining the settlement in a fair and balanced way. Actually, I have seen one just recently. It is an article from 1994. I have never read it before someone posted it on Twitter this week. But this is a very rare bird. Most articles will just spout superficial fallacies. The Chandlers and their lawyer cleverly played the system in 1993. When will that story ever be told in the media? And the irony is, that it is right there in the Chandlers' own book! And the settlement is just one example. Often the media even promotes complete falsehoods when it comes to MJ. Just see how the fake "child porn" story and the fake "FBI files" story went viral - and not only in tabloids. Hardly any publications fact checked it. The only publication who reached out to Santa Barbara police and Zonen to ask about the "child porn" was People. I give that to them. But the rest? They just ran with the story. You know the level of unfairness MJ faces in the media when Zonen is more fair to him than the media is. All I ever see is in the media about MJ, especially in articles that aren't just about his music, is an extreme bias and malice against him. Not just in tabloids, although they are certainly the worst offenders. But papers like the Guardian, the Independent and the Telegraph have always been extremely nasty towards him as well. You see respected documentary makers like Louis Theroux immediately take people with extremely compromised credibility, such as Terry George, at face value. This man has always only told his story in tabloids like the Sun, but when it came to testifying he was running scared. So why are you promoting him as if he is credible? People rarely ever realize that reading one article or watching a documentary will not necessarily make you know all about a case. Especially if it is full of lies and falsehoods, like most documentaries about MJ are. Just think of those horrible ones from 2005 (Michael Jackson's Boys, Jacques Peretti, Michael Jackson's World etc). Channel 4, which (along with HBO) commissioned this Wade "documentary" answered to fans' concerned e-mails, saying they have "an excellent track record for investigative journalism"? Really? They actually seem to have an axe-to-grind when it comes to MJ. Their "excellent" investigators in the past included people like NBC too This man was court ordered to pay MJ $2.7 million for making up slanderous lies about him (not to mention writing a book which supports pedophilia), but when it comes to MJ there are just no boundaries, no fairness, no journalistic standards. It's extremely frustrating. Informative as always Respect
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Post by respect77 on Jan 12, 2019 7:55:31 GMT
I have to tell you there is no one I despise more than Wade Robson and James Safechuck. Truly despicable people.
At least Jordan and Gavin have the excuse that they were kids, manipulated by their parents. But what excuse do these two have? And Wade is at the very bottom. It pains me how MJ died thinking this guy was his friend. What kind of human scum you have to be to turn around and stab someone in the back who helped you so much? I think of Dante's Inferno and how traitors are up there with murderers in it. When I think of someone like Wade I can see why. That's how serious I think his moral failure is. Times like this is when I wish there was a Hell.
It hurts me how these two con-artists will be patted on the back and congratulated left and right for their "bravery" and made some sort of poster boys for abuse victims. I feel sorry for real abuse victims who are duped by them. I am angry on their behalf, even though they don't realize they are being duped. I feel sorry for even their family members who they are lying to. I can only hope one day they will find out about what kind of people their husbands/sons/brothers are. I am not holding my breath, though, because they probably wanna be in denial about that possibility. That's why Joy didn't read Wade's court documents IMO.
They are like that woman who faked as a 9/11 survivor for many years and was even made a poster child for 9/11 survivors and some sort of representative of their cause. But at least she did not slander anyone to pose as a "victim" like Wade and James do. They make me wanna puke. And how they will be represented as these good, upstanding citizens, congratulated, patted on the back, while MJ will be trashed and dragged through the mud once again. Maybe they will even get new careers at the back of it (probably one of their goals too - see that comment that Wade made to himself in a note about how his story of abuse will make him relevant and relatable) - definitely some rounds of media interviews, their 15 minutes of fame is guaranteed. Where they will be called brave and examplary and all that crap. It makes me sick. And I hate it how they will cement themselves with this as "abuse victims" and MJ as a "molester".
There is absolutely no justice in this world. The world actually seems to favour bad people.
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Post by HIStoric on Jan 12, 2019 8:36:46 GMT
I have to tell you there is no one I despise more than Wade Robson and James Safechuck. Truly despicable people. At least Jordan and Gavin have the excuse that they were kids, manipulated by their parents. But what excuse do these two have? And Wade is at the very bottom. It pains me how MJ died thinking this guy was his friend. What kind of human scum you have to be to turn around and stab someone in the back who helped you so much? I think of Dante's Inferno and how traitors are up there with murderers in it. When I think of someone like Wade I can see why. That's how serious I think his moral failure is. Times like this is when I wish there was a Hell. What angers me (in addition to what you posted) is how there is nothing anymore to defend Michael Jackson from a legal perspective. If he was still around he could rightfully sue the living daylight out of these two despicable sacks of shit. But because he's dead, that gives them freedom to spout literally anything they want about him and there's absolutely nothing that the Estate can do about it from a legal perspective.
If it's so utterly infuriating as a mere fan of the man, I can't even fathom what it must be like for Prince, Paris and Bigi; for them to have no course but sit there and listen to all these malicious and repugnant allegations drag their father's name through the dirt... those poor children.
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Post by MattyJam on Jan 12, 2019 8:38:08 GMT
Part of me feels angry that Michael put himself in this situation in the first place. I think there was a misguided and naive arrogance to him, where he felt untouchable and like he didn't have to conform to social norms, and look where it's gotten him!! I mean, to go on telly ten years after being first accused and defend your right to share a bed with an unrelated child is just utter madness. Seriously, what was he thinking? I think by that point he had become so insulated in his own bubble, surrounding by sycophants and people on the payroll, that he had genuinely lost touch with reality.
I feel bad criticizing him in this way, especially at this time, when his legacy is on the brink of a tsunami of bad press and he's inevitably going to get raked over the coals by the media and social justice warriors on Twitter etc. But the truth is, this ugly, twisted, sick situation that we repeatedly find ourselves in as MJ fans is in part his own doing. He was his own worst enemy and paid the ultimate price. He admitted himself that he was too trusting and he didn't learn from his mistakes until it was too late. And now his kids and fans are left to pick up the pieces and a good man is long dead. And for what? To prove a point? To be defiant? It was all so avoidable, I think that's what frustrates me so much.
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Post by aazzaabb on Jan 12, 2019 8:48:26 GMT
I have to tell you there is no one I despise more than Wade Robson and James Safechuck. Truly despicable people. At least Jordan and Gavin have the excuse that they were kids, manipulated by their parents. But what excuse do these two have? And Wade is at the very bottom. It pains me how MJ died thinking this guy was his friend. What kind of human scum you have to be to turn around and stab someone in the back who helped you so much? I think of Dante's Inferno and how traitors are up there with murderers in it. When I think of someone like Wade I can see why. That's how serious I think his moral failure is. Times like this is when I wish there was a Hell. It hurts me how these two con-artists will be patted on the back and congratulated left and right for their "bravery" and made some sort of poster boys for abuse victims. I feel sorry for real abuse victims who are duped by them. I am angry on their behalf, even though they don't realize they are being duped. I feel sorry for even their family members who they are lying to. I can only hope one day they will find out about what kind of people their husbands/sons/brothers are. I am not holding my breath, though, because they probably wanna be in denial about that possibility. That's why Joy didn't read Wade's court documents IMO. They are like that woman who faked as a 9/11 survivor for many years and was even made a poster child for 9/11 survivors and some sort of representative of their cause. But at least she did not slander anyone to pose as a "victim" like Wade and James do. They make me wanna puke. And how they will be represented as these good, upstanding citizens, congratulated, patted on the back, while MJ will be trashed and dragged through the mud once again. Maybe they will even get new careers at the back of it (probably one of their goals too - see that comment that Wade made to himself in a note about how his story of abuse will make him relevant and relatable) - definitely some rounds of media interviews, their 15 minutes of fame is guaranteed. Where they will be called brave and examplary and all that crap. It makes me sick. And I hate it how they will cement themselves with this as "abuse victims" and MJ as a "molester". There is absolutely no justice in this world. The world actually seems to favour bad people. Being an MJ fan is like being paralysed on the outside while our brains watch in frustration as these creeps constantly surface and tell blatant lies. It makes me sick! Something has to be done. I do have this feeling that a few evil people behind the scenes have been perpetuating this malice against MJ for 25 years. Something has got to be done! They need to go back to 93 and present the evidence for everything that happened since then. I agree with everything you say Respect.
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Post by respect77 on Jan 12, 2019 9:00:36 GMT
I have to tell you there is no one I despise more than Wade Robson and James Safechuck. Truly despicable people. At least Jordan and Gavin have the excuse that they were kids, manipulated by their parents. But what excuse do these two have? And Wade is at the very bottom. It pains me how MJ died thinking this guy was his friend. What kind of human scum you have to be to turn around and stab someone in the back who helped you so much? I think of Dante's Inferno and how traitors are up there with murderers in it. When I think of someone like Wade I can see why. That's how serious I think his moral failure is. Times like this is when I wish there was a Hell. What angers me (in addition to what you posted) is how there is nothing anymore to defend Michael Jackson from a legal perspective. If he was still around he could rightfully sue the living daylight out of these two despicable sacks of shit. But because he's dead, that gives them freedom to spout literally anything they want about him and there's absolutely nothing that the Estate can do about it from a legal perspective.
That is why it is unfair and IMO unethical to make such a documentary in the first place. With MJ not being here it is bound to become a one-sided smear campaign. And what is really the purpose here? Its makers claim the accusers "deserve to be heard". But it is a disingenuous reasoning because these accusers HAVE been heard. Wade gave media interviews about his allegations before, James leaked his complaint to Dimond on the day he filed it. Their lawyers were all over the media. So what was not heard? Probably they were not satisfied with the attention it got, but they were given the platform. MJ's side never was. MJ is the only one here who never got heard and never can be. But at the very least then, they could have reported about the case in a fair, neutral and comprihensive manner. But they never do when it comes to MJ.
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