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Post by respect77 on Feb 12, 2019 19:33:18 GMT
He has no choice now, who the hell would hire him? What celebrity would have someone like this around? After this is all done you'll not hear this man's name again. Id be interested to see what the "dance" community makes of him. Obviously he must have been a name at some point but Im pretty sure a lot more people put on dancing shoes because of MJ than Robson. After the dust has settled, and the facts are louder than the lies, I can see him desperately needing to cling to his "charity" for groceries. It's interesting that you bring it up because there is a thread on LSA where there are two people who interacted with him as dancers - participated in his classes and neither of them ha a good opinion of him. He seems to be an egocentric guy, full of himself.
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Post by respect77 on Feb 12, 2019 19:36:45 GMT
That shopping centre in Denmark that removed the MJ figure has moved it BACK after complaints about it being moved. Minor victories guys, perspective. I read the removal was actually media generated. Some news agency called them to complain and then to write an article about the removal. SMH, the media is doing the most. It is like an orchestrated campaign with the media.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 19:37:42 GMT
Id be interested to see what the "dance" community makes of him. Obviously he must have been a name at some point but Im pretty sure a lot more people put on dancing shoes because of MJ than Robson. After the dust has settled, and the facts are louder than the lies, I can see him desperately needing to cling to his "charity" for groceries. It's interesting that you bring it up because there is a thread on LSA where there are two people who interacted with him as dancers - participated in his classes and neither of them ha a good opinion of him. He seems to be an egocentric guy, full of himself.
A real Gene Kelly, he sounds like.
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Post by ghost on Feb 12, 2019 19:38:49 GMT
Yet fear of paedophilia often causes people to lose their minds. And the fear of innocent people being wrongfully accused, lives ruined and convicted is usually outweighed by this fear of paedophilia. You talk about fear of paedophilia as if it's an irrational or OTT reaction from the general public. I don't support mob mentality anymore than the next intelligent thinking adult, but as a parent myself, I have zero sympathy for paedophiles being treated as social pariahs. People feeling passionate about children's right isn't a "moral panic", it is called protecting the most vulnerable in our society. It's just a shame this doesn't seem to extend to societies barbaric treatment of animals.
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Post by pg13 on Feb 12, 2019 19:39:16 GMT
This kind of thing has long been a part of humanity. Just consider the Salem Witch Trials, for example. Consider too, the nonsense about the Great Famine being "genocide" or rubbish about collusion in Northern Ireland. And so on. There's a long list of examples throughout human history that shows the lynch mob mentality has always been a part of humanity. In our time, the fear of paedophilia hysteria is our Salem Witch Hunt.
You don't have to go back to Salem.
1980s - Satanic Ritual Abuse moral panic. You would think shit like this could only happen in the Middle Ages, but no. Knowing what went on there it maybe shouldn't be that much of a surprise that the media and people are so gullible about this Leaving Neverland shit as well.
TV presenters like Oprah pushed that shit in all seriousness.
People actually haven't come a long way at all since the Middle Ages. They are easily manipulated even with the most outrageous BS. Especially if it involves sex. And if it involves pedophilia then people are completely losing their damn mind.
The whole BS came from a book called Michelle Remembers. Michelle Remembers is for the Satanic Ritual Abuse moral panic like Victor Gutierrez's book is for the MJ allegations.
I did mention other instances of the lynch mob mentality besides Salem Witch Hunt. We can also reference the McMartin child abuse allegations which all turned out to be false. Of course, that has a connection to Stanley Katz.
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Post by respect77 on Feb 12, 2019 19:41:20 GMT
That shopping centre in Denmark that removed the MJ figure has moved it BACK after complaints about it being moved. Minor victories guys, perspective. Where did you hear that? As long as it doesn't turn out to be a pyrrhic victory because the real battle is still to come.
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Post by pg13 on Feb 12, 2019 19:47:53 GMT
Yet fear of paedophilia often causes people to lose their minds. And the fear of innocent people being wrongfully accused, lives ruined and convicted is usually outweighed by this fear of paedophilia. You talk about fear of paedophilia as if it's an irrational or OTT reaction from the general public. I don't support mob mentality anymore than the next intelligent thinking adult, but as a parent myself, I have zero sympathy for paedophiles being treated as social pariahs. People feeling passionate about children's right isn't a "moral panic", it is called protecting the most vulnerable in our society. It's just a shame this doesn't seem to extend to societies barbaric treatment of animals. On the whole, being concerned about children's health, welfare and safety is perfectly laudable. And, yes, morally right. No one contests that. But fear of paedophilia itself is best encapsulated in one word - hysteria. Things like the McMartin child abuse allegations and those levelled against celebrities are symptomatic of it. This is certainly not to suggest any kind of sympathy towards actual paedophiles themselves. But really more geared towards the devastating impact of accusations of paedophilia. Especially towards innocent people. Just look at what happened to Matthew Kelly and Cliff Richard, besides Michael Jackson. What drives all this? Yes, a lynch mob mentality, but the root of such a mentality is essentially fear. The article further up that I linked to discusses this better. It was written by a woman whose life was ruined by false allegations of sexual abuse. The pendulum has swung from one extreme where majority of alleged victims weren't believed to the other extreme where all alleged victims are believed. And all it takes is for an accusation to be made to ruin anyone's life.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 19:49:36 GMT
Where did you hear that? As long as it doesn't turn out to be a pyrrhic victory because the real battle is still to come. I'm sure the shopping centre will be glad of the WORLDWIDE publicity it managed to get. Regardless, common sense prevails.
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Post by respect77 on Feb 12, 2019 19:54:33 GMT
Looks like an interesting article. I will read later.
I was wondering if this whole case could go both ways: it doesn't only threaten MJ's legacy, but I feel it may end up threatening the Metoo movement as well. These two things clash and there won't be a clear winner and both might end up harmed by this.
And this is exactly why real abuse victims need to understand they can't just uncritically embrace every allegation as true. They need to do some vetting, some critical thinking.
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Post by pg13 on Feb 12, 2019 19:59:04 GMT
Looks like an interesting article. I will read later.
I was wondering if this whole case could go both ways: it doesn't only threaten MJ's legacy, but I feel it may end up threatening the Metoo movement as well. These two things clash and there won't be a clear winner and both might end up harmed by this.
And this is exactly why real abuse victims need to understand they can't just uncritically embrace every allegation as true. They need to do some vetting, some critical thinking.
My feelings exactly. I do feel that Michael Jackson's legacy AND genuine victims of various kinds of sexual abuse will both be the main losers here. If so, it'll take decades to undo any damage. And that would be a tragedy. But.....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 20:11:55 GMT
Looks like an interesting article. I will read later.
I was wondering if this whole case could go both ways: it doesn't only threaten MJ's legacy, but I feel it may end up threatening the Metoo movement as well. These two things clash and there won't be a clear winner and both might end up harmed by this.
And this is exactly why real abuse victims need to understand they can't just uncritically embrace every allegation as true. They need to do some vetting, some critical thinking.
My feelings exactly. I do feel that Michael Jackson's legacy AND genuine victims of various kinds of sexual abuse will both be the main losers here. If so, it'll take decades to undo any damage. And that would be a tragedy. But..... PG, did I see you write you are either Northern Irish, or lived there for a while? Did you by any chance follow Paddy Jackson's rape trial last year, because I am seeing so many social similarities between what happened back then, and what's happening now.
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Post by kremlinshadow on Feb 12, 2019 20:46:26 GMT
You talk about fear of paedophilia as if it's an irrational or OTT reaction from the general public. I don't support mob mentality anymore than the next intelligent thinking adult, but as a parent myself, I have zero sympathy for paedophiles being treated as social pariahs. People feeling passionate about children's right isn't a "moral panic", it is called protecting the most vulnerable in our society. It's just a shame this doesn't seem to extend to societies barbaric treatment of animals. On the whole, being concerned about children's health, welfare and safety is perfectly laudable. And, yes, morally right. No one contests that. But fear of paedophilia itself is best encapsulated in one word - hysteria. Things like the McMartin child abuse allegations and those levelled against celebrities are symptomatic of it. This is certainly not to suggest any kind of sympathy towards actual paedophiles themselves. But really more geared towards the devastating impact of accusations of paedophilia. Especially towards innocent people. Just look at what happened to Matthew Kelly and Cliff Richard, besides Michael Jackson. What drives all this? Yes, a lynch mob mentality, but the root of such a mentality is essentially fear. The article further up that I linked to discusses this better. It was written by a woman whose life was ruined by false allegations of sexual abuse. The pendulum has swung from one extreme where majority of alleged victims weren't believed to the other extreme where all alleged victims are believed. And all it takes is for an accusation to be made to ruin anyone's life. Exactly what it is, hysteria. All you have to say now is 'I think he's a nonse' and that mud sticks forever, people need to be extra careful. Mind, Cliff Richard should of come out years ago he set himself up for that being secretive about his sexuality, it doesn't bode well when you are trying to convince others you are not hiding something else, and that doesn't mean I'm finding a correlation between being gay and a paedophile. Matthew Kelly is another whole kettle of fish, I wouldn't be so quick to defend this man as I have it on unquestionable authority that he mixes with a known convicted paedophile, that not to say he is active himself though. If MJ was a normal everyday blokey bloke, 9-5 worker, pub crawler then yes I would think there would be cause for concern, but he is none of these and logic behind the seeking out the company of younger people who don't judge or ask him for anything is acceptable considering his poor upbringing. You can't go from calling him weird and a freak to then compare him to an everyday person it just doesn't float.
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Post by pg13 on Feb 12, 2019 20:56:59 GMT
My feelings exactly. I do feel that Michael Jackson's legacy AND genuine victims of various kinds of sexual abuse will both be the main losers here. If so, it'll take decades to undo any damage. And that would be a tragedy. But..... PG, did I see you write you are either Northern Irish, or lived there for a while? Did you by any chance follow Paddy Jackson's rape trial last year, because I am seeing so many social similarities between what happened back then, and what's happening now. I am, indeed, a Norn Iron man. But no, I didn't actually follow Paddy Jackson's trial. Mind you, I have read bits that suggested people were pretty split about it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 21:07:32 GMT
PG, did I see you write you are either Northern Irish, or lived there for a while? Did you by any chance follow Paddy Jackson's rape trial last year, because I am seeing so many social similarities between what happened back then, and what's happening now. I am, indeed, a Norn Iron man. But no, I didn't actually follow Paddy Jackson's trial. Mind you, I have read bits that suggested people were pretty split about it. Massively, but for all the wrong reasons. There was a whole "I believe her" thing that started, and anyone who didn't agree, was simply an asshole. Rory Best gave a character witness for Jackson, and people started hashtags with #notmycaptain and all that crap. It was very scary, because the girls testimony from the stand (if I remember correctly) was sketchy at best, and everyone was all up in arms about "how horrible it was for a raped woman to have to go through such questions". It was when it dawned on me that the court of public opinion had officially lost the run of itself. Now the parallell I mentioned was this - Paddy Jackson's Whatsapp messages were used as evidence, and they are very much a "young lads" group bragging about shagging "whores" and how they had a threesome with your one, and some other sexual details. Because of this, it felt like every woman in the country (and many men) decided because of THIS he was guilty. Anyone who is a creep = rapist. Now, his messages DID make him out to be a dick, BUT this did not equate to rape! Any time you asked for a bit of proof, or stated that you didn't believe her, it was like you were promoting rape. Much like.... drum roll..... Sleeping in a bed with a child DOES NOT equate to child molestation, but it seems the a lot of the public now are so blinded by their own self importance on social media and in public, with nuclear virtue signalling, that everything is now black and white. There's no space for using your brain and being allowed to look at column A and column B and come to a conclusion yourself. Everything has to be in your face and plain. I went off a bit there, but basically yeah the rape trial completely split people down the middle because of how super sensitive you have to be seen towards #metoo these days. That case really opened my eyes to the metoo thing, and how the public just lap up a sympathy story. I don't THINK your man raped her, based on the evidence that was stated, but I hated how you couldn;t question "the victim". FYI I love Belfast. It's amazing.
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Post by pg13 on Feb 12, 2019 21:10:45 GMT
Here's the example of an everyday man being accused of being a paedophile. His identity was stolen by scammers. news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7326736.stmAll kinds of people from all walks of life can be ruined by it. It does not seem to matter where a person is regarded as normal or weird. Although the general public has a certain kind of perception of who/what a paedophile is. Lack of education and all that.
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