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Post by MattyJam on Dec 24, 2021 17:26:07 GMT
It’s decent. How could it not be? It’s George. I think that's the crux of my beef with TonyR and yourself on this subject. It's the same deal with Invincible. It's Michael Jackson. It may not be prime Michael Jackson, but it's still Michael Jackson. Same thing with Patience. IMO, an artist who has delivered at such a high quality in the past deserves his/her audience to give their newer work sufficient time to get to know. How can you be a GM fan and just dismiss an entire album out of hand when the man only has four proper studio albums of original material? Even if you think Patience or Invincible were disappointing, a disappointing GM/MJ album is still of a far higher quality than a Rhianna or Beyonce or Timberlake album. JMO of course. Maybe it sounds as if I'm veering off again into musical snobbery territory, but it's really more about how highly I rate the likes of George or MJ, than anything else.
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Post by MattyJam on Dec 24, 2021 17:31:32 GMT
Although is it fair to say my ranting about the Last Christmas film sort of pushed you in this current direction? Oh, absolutely. I went through a bit of a GM obsessive phase after he passed (I know, I know, bandwagon jumper, shoot me), and I kept meaning to explore his work further. Seeing the masterpiece of cinema that was Last Christmas definitely inspired my current obsession. I knew as soon as I heard the opening chords of Praying For Time that I was about to head down a George Michael rabbithole. That sounded dangerously close to sounding homoerotic.
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Post by aazzaabb on Dec 25, 2021 12:29:24 GMT
It’s decent. How could it not be? It’s George. I think that's the crux of my beef with TonyR and yourself on this subject. It's the same deal with Invincible. It's Michael Jackson. It may not be prime Michael Jackson, but it's still Michael Jackson. Same thing with Patience. IMO, an artist who has delivered at such a high quality in the past deserves his/her audience to give their newer work sufficient time to get to know. How can you be a GM fan and just dismiss an entire album out of hand when the man only has four proper studio albums of original material? Even if you think Patience or Invincible were disappointing, a disappointing GM/MJ album is still of a far higher quality than a Rhianna or Beyonce or Timberlake album. JMO of course. Maybe it sounds as if I'm veering off again into musical snobbery territory, but it's really more about how highly I rate the likes of George or MJ, than anything else. Without wanting to derail this into Invincible, my relationship with it is very complicated. I remember being in HMV and hearing it upon release blast through the sound system and feeling “this doesn’t really sound like Michael to me”. I remember being a bit shocked that his voice sounded quite different. I didn’t buy the album until maybe 2 or 3 weeks after it was released. The whole era falls flat for me. You should really give the MJ Cast round table on Invincible a listen. You won’t like a lot of what’s said but much of it is simply the truth. A lot of things went against MJ in that era as well and everything that could go wrong did go wrong.
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Post by MattyJam on Dec 27, 2021 19:26:59 GMT
I think that's the crux of my beef with TonyR and yourself on this subject. It's the same deal with Invincible. It's Michael Jackson. It may not be prime Michael Jackson, but it's still Michael Jackson. Same thing with Patience. IMO, an artist who has delivered at such a high quality in the past deserves his/her audience to give their newer work sufficient time to get to know. How can you be a GM fan and just dismiss an entire album out of hand when the man only has four proper studio albums of original material? Even if you think Patience or Invincible were disappointing, a disappointing GM/MJ album is still of a far higher quality than a Rhianna or Beyonce or Timberlake album. JMO of course. Maybe it sounds as if I'm veering off again into musical snobbery territory, but it's really more about how highly I rate the likes of George or MJ, than anything else. Without wanting to derail this into Invincible, my relationship with it is very complicated. I remember being in HMV and hearing it upon release blast through the sound system and feeling “this doesn’t really sound like Michael to me”. I remember being a bit shocked that his voice sounded quite different. I didn’t buy the album until maybe 2 or 3 weeks after it was released. The whole era falls flat for me. You should really give the MJ Cast round table on Invincible a listen. You won’t like a lot of what’s said but much of it is simply the truth. A lot of things went against MJ in that era as well and everything that could go wrong did go wrong. Can't believe you didn't buy it right away on the day it was released. What kind of sorry excuse for a MJ fan are you?
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Post by aazzaabb on Dec 28, 2021 13:06:03 GMT
Without wanting to derail this into Invincible, my relationship with it is very complicated. I remember being in HMV and hearing it upon release blast through the sound system and feeling “this doesn’t really sound like Michael to me”. I remember being a bit shocked that his voice sounded quite different. I didn’t buy the album until maybe 2 or 3 weeks after it was released. The whole era falls flat for me. You should really give the MJ Cast round table on Invincible a listen. You won’t like a lot of what’s said but much of it is simply the truth. A lot of things went against MJ in that era as well and everything that could go wrong did go wrong. Can't believe you didn't buy it right away on the day it was released. What kind of sorry excuse for a MJ fan are you? It was a weird experience for me. I remember being in Ireland for 9/11 like it was yesterday, and ringing my father in Portugal to tell him to turn on the news, and then also being in the Gran Canneries -it must have been a week later- when I saw news footage of the 30th Anniversary MSG shows. People’s comments in the bar were along the lines of “look at Michael Jackson, he can’t dance anymore”, there was this feeling that he was a washed-up dinosaur. Back in Ireland when I eventually bought the album and brought it to the counter in HMV I commented “you must be sick to death of seeing this album?” to which the HMV guy replied “Nah not really. It’s not been selling that much.” I felt very discombobulated and out of sorts around this time. I also got the Special Editions which I was more excited about as that was my MJ, along with HIStory and Blood of course. I remember playing Invincible and feeling completely removed. It sounded so noisy and patchy. It did little to nothing for me apart from You Rock My World and maybe Speechless. Eventually a few tracks grew on me and later on I came to appreciate it, and these days as you know I’m a big fan of the Invincible album. sort of.
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,413
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Post by TonyR on Dec 28, 2021 15:55:20 GMT
Can't believe you've managed to make another Invincible thread.
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Post by MattyJam on Dec 28, 2021 21:50:59 GMT
Can't believe you've managed to make another Invincible thread. That was aazzaabb not me. I wanted to talk about Patience, but Aaron's bloody obsessed with Invincible. Back to George... listen to My Mother Had A Brother on headphones reading the lyrics. I dare you not to get goosebumps.
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Post by aazzaabb on Dec 28, 2021 23:11:48 GMT
Your honour, may I please submit to the jury exhibit A; TonyR post from page 1. I've tried. But it's just like his Invincible. Some good tracks but nothing that compares to his best.Amazing is quite a light track for a lead single. A lot of people criticise GM for making Dinner Party music and this album really smacks of that. Anyways I saw him live twice so meh. Now a few things; yes I’m obsessed with Invincible and obviously I like it to a large degree because if I’m being honest I never shut up about it. What would we do WITHOUT Invincible?? You’ll find that the things you rant and rave at actually mean quite a lot to you. Secondly, the thread title suggests that the subject matter is something that bothers Matty about TonyR. May I suggest that not only does the fact that TonyR disregards the Patience album annoy Matty, but also his complete abandon of not only the Invincible album, but the entire Invincible era. Thirdly, I bought the Listen Without Prejudice/ MTV Unplugged set because Matty entered into a George phase because I watched Last Christmas and didn’t think much of it! And TonyR sent me a copy of his personal MTV Unplugged album a decade ago which holds a special place in my heart. I listened to Patience again and actually enjoyed it. I feel I must come across as a fair-weather fan who decides what albums he likes based on what side of the bed he got out of. The truth is that Matty’s reviews and enjoyment of both these albums piqued my interest enough to revisit and reassess both. Invincible is still laden with production problems, wrong tracks chosen and a complete lack of visuals but I’d still rather have it than not. It still makes my top-10 MJ albums list. Patience is really decent and contains a lot of GM’s heart and soul. It’s 2 tracks too much and 7 or 8 tracks are too long but it’s aged quite well and it’s a classy sophisticated pop album. I’m happy to have rediscovered both these albums. Both are greater than the sum of their parts. Both are Michael Jackson and George Michael. What more does one need?! A duet would have been potentially wonderful.
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Post by MattyJam on Dec 29, 2021 8:56:53 GMT
Your honour, may I please submit to the jury exhibit A; TonyR post from page 1. I've tried. But it's just like his Invincible. Some good tracks but nothing that compares to his best.Amazing is quite a light track for a lead single. A lot of people criticise GM for making Dinner Party music and this album really smacks of that. Anyways I saw him live twice so meh. Shocking. With regards to Tony's claim of Patience sounding like "dinner party music", I would argue that Freeek, Flawless (Go To The City), Precious Box and Shoot The Dog sound edgier than most of Older or LWPV1.
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Post by aazzaabb on Dec 29, 2021 15:16:04 GMT
Your honour, may I please submit to the jury exhibit A; TonyR post from page 1. Shocking. With regards to Tony's claim of Patience sounding like "dinner party music", I would argue that Freeek, Flawless (Go To The City), Precious Box and Shoot The Dog sound edgier than most of Older or LWPV1. Whilst listening to the album the other day Shoot The Dog actually sounded like classic Faith era George, Flawless surprised me, I actually sort of forgotten about it and when the voice says “like no other” on the intro for a moment I thought I was listening to a Prince track. I still feel it would be a better track if 2 minutes was shaved off it. But yea, definitely edgier than I remember it to be.
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Post by MattyJam on Dec 29, 2021 19:33:23 GMT
Whilst listening to the album the other day Shoot The Dog actually sounded like classic Faith era George, Flawless surprised me, I actually sort of forgotten about it and when the voice says “like no other” on the intro for a moment I thought I was listening to a Prince track. I still feel it would be a better track if 2 minutes was shaved off it. But yea, definitely edgier than I remember it to be. You ever given Songs From The Last Century a whirl?
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Post by mjjfan810 on Dec 29, 2021 20:25:00 GMT
I remember reading an interview he was doing after Patience had come out and someone pointed out to him that the acronym of his albums spelled F.L.O.P. (Faith, Listen without Prejudice, Older, Patience) He found that pretty funny, which is another charming feature about him: the ability to laugh at himself, and appreciate the absurd rather than get up in his feelings about it.
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,413
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Post by TonyR on Dec 29, 2021 21:13:55 GMT
There's a good few parallels between GM and MJ. Started off in a Boy band Went huge with their debut solo Incredible songwriters as well as singers. Mainly one word title albums! Not very prolific Last album was far from their best (just for you MattyJam ) Died well before their time
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Post by Cloudbuster on Dec 30, 2021 2:44:27 GMT
This though.
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Post by MattyJam on Dec 30, 2021 7:56:20 GMT
Funny, I always thought this one was the weakest on the record.
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