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Post by Liberian Girl on Feb 17, 2022 11:22:52 GMT
I was having a debate with my brother-in-law about what constitutes a ballad, and it's funny how there's such a differing opinion on this subject.
We spent ages going back and fourth, sharing songs which we disagreed about whether they were ballads or not. I said I thought Bad Girl by Madonna was a ballad - he disagreed. I said I thought Stranger In Moscow was a ballad - again, he disagreed. He seemed to have a very narrow window of what he constituted to be a ballad. But then turned around and said Jackie's Strength by Tori Amos wasn't a ballad, which is just madness to me.
So what IYO constitutes a ballad? Lets use MJ as a frame of reference as it's an artist we all know. Do you consider Butterflies to be a ballad for example? Or Stranger In Moscow? What about Heal The World?
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,413
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Post by TonyR on Feb 17, 2022 12:03:04 GMT
Is it slow?
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Post by Liberian Girl on Feb 17, 2022 12:24:57 GMT
I can tell you put a lot of thought into that answer Tony.
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Post by aazzaabb on Feb 17, 2022 12:38:27 GMT
A slow, possibly more of a poetic sense in the lyrics? Or a sentimentality to it overall?
Heal The World , I Just Can’t Stop Loving You are absolutely ballads. IMO.
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Post by Liberian Girl on Feb 17, 2022 12:45:11 GMT
A slow, possibly more of a poetic sense in the lyrics? Or a sentimentality to it overall? Heal The World , I Just Can’t Stop Loving You are absolutely ballads. IMO. What about Stranger In Moscow?
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Post by Michaels Lover on Feb 17, 2022 12:48:52 GMT
Stranger In Moscow is definitely a ballad
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Post by Liberian Girl on Feb 17, 2022 12:50:30 GMT
Stranger In Moscow is definitely a ballad Thankyou!!!
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Post by aazzaabb on Feb 17, 2022 13:03:07 GMT
A slow, possibly more of a poetic sense in the lyrics? Or a sentimentality to it overall? Heal The World , I Just Can’t Stop Loving You are absolutely ballads. IMO. What about Stranger In Moscow?I would say it is yes. Possibly in a slightly broader sense for some? Michael did ballads for sure.
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,413
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Post by TonyR on Feb 17, 2022 13:06:57 GMT
I can tell you put a lot of thought into that answer Tony. Ha. Sorry! I bet the reply you wanted to write was "you're a cocky twat Tony"! But as a general rule of thumb, that's my answer. If it is slow tempo combined with usually a love song or forlorn message then it's a ballad. Stranger in Moscow? Of course! How could it not be? Madonna's Something to Remember collection is a good benchmark. Should Bad Girl have been included? I'm not sure. It's definitely a slower song (and a magnificent one), but the tempo may just be too fast to constitute balladry.
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Post by aazzaabb on Feb 17, 2022 13:21:26 GMT
I can tell you put a lot of thought into that answer Tony. Ha. Sorry! I bet the reply you wanted to write was "you're a cocky twat Tony"! But as a general rule of thumb, that's my answer. If it is slow tempo combined with usually a love song or forlorn message then it's a ballad. Stranger in Moscow? Of course! How could it not be?Madonna's Something to Remember collection is a good benchmark. Should Bad Girl have been included? I'm not sure. It's definitely a slower song (and a magnificent one), but the tempo may just be too fast to constitute balladry. But is it merely a ballad? Or is it something slightly more? I think that’s where a lot of the confusion comes. Many Musos look down on the term ballad as a sort of reductive description. They feel the term is throwaway because what springs to mind is soppy frivolous love songs. Going back to the birth of popular music from How Much Is That Doggy In The Window? and into Elvis’ albums and soundtracks, Motown, ballads are seen as this twee and primitive sort of thing. Not explicitly, but in more of a sort of general attitude. Of course it’s a completely ridiculous attitude to have. How specific do we need to get. Stranger In Moscow is a beautifully poetic piece of music, but it’s also a Michael Jackson pop song that is slow and emotive, therefore it’s a ballad. Liberian Girl, what does your brother in law categorise Stranger In Moscow as?
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,413
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Post by TonyR on Feb 17, 2022 13:29:01 GMT
Ha. Sorry! I bet the reply you wanted to write was "you're a cocky twat Tony"! But as a general rule of thumb, that's my answer. If it is slow tempo combined with usually a love song or forlorn message then it's a ballad. Stranger in Moscow? Of course! How could it not be?Madonna's Something to Remember collection is a good benchmark. Should Bad Girl have been included? I'm not sure. It's definitely a slower song (and a magnificent one), but the tempo may just be too fast to constitute balladry. But is it merely a ballad? Or is it something slightly more? I think that’s where a lot of the confusion comes. Many Musos look down on the term ballad as a sort of reductive description. They feel the term is throwaway because what springs to mind is soppy frivolous love songs. Going back to the birth of popular music from How Much Is That Doggy In The Window? and into Elvis’ albums and soundtracks, Motown, ballads are seen as this twee and primitive sort of thing. Not explicitly, but in more of a sort of general attitude. Of course it’s a completely ridiculous attitude to have. How specific do we need to get. Stranger In Moscow is a beautifully poetic piece of music, but it’s also a Michael Jackson pop song that is slow and emotive, therefore it’s a ballad. Liberian Girl, what does your brother in law categorise Stranger In Moscow as? Well if we're going by what a muso thinks then I can't help!!
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Post by aazzaabb on Feb 17, 2022 13:32:45 GMT
But is it merely a ballad? Or is it something slightly more? I think that’s where a lot of the confusion comes. Many Musos look down on the term ballad as a sort of reductive description. They feel the term is throwaway because what springs to mind is soppy frivolous love songs. Going back to the birth of popular music from How Much Is That Doggy In The Window? and into Elvis’ albums and soundtracks, Motown, ballads are seen as this twee and primitive sort of thing. Not explicitly, but in more of a sort of general attitude. Of course it’s a completely ridiculous attitude to have. How specific do we need to get. Stranger In Moscow is a beautifully poetic piece of music, but it’s also a Michael Jackson pop song that is slow and emotive, therefore it’s a ballad. Liberian Girl, what does your brother in law categorise Stranger In Moscow as? Well if we're going by what a muso thinks then I can't help!! I’m with you! If it’s slow and emotive music and lyrics that can be construed as sentiment then as far as I’m concerned it’s a ballad. People tend to over-categorise also.
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Post by pg13 on Feb 25, 2022 9:49:50 GMT
It's a relatively recent thing to consider a ballad to only be a slow song with sentimental lyrics.
A ballad is a narrative set to music. It was quite common to refer to Billie Jean as a pop ballad.
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