|
|
Post by NatureCriminal7896 on Jun 24, 2022 23:45:17 GMT
black people have been historically compared and depicted as monkeys in a racist and demeaning way, which includes to Michael himself because I distinctly remember a cartoon made by either The Sun or The Mirror of a monkey with Michael's type of hairstyle locked up in a cage screaming released in 1992 which was before the allegations or the incident with baby Blanket. I'd say he was viciously mocked and ridiculed ever since he bought that catalog. Exactly. it's racist. that what i just said in my last post about it. |
|
|
|
Post by NatureCriminal7896 on Jun 25, 2022 0:19:02 GMT
it's really interesting to get to know everyone here. as a American it's gonna be look at as racist. now i notice that some of you guys are from Europe.
each country gonna have different words and terms. it might not seem offensive to some people but maybe to someone else.
i get what you guys are saying. but different places and terms gonna have different meanings.
so saying Wacko Jacko might not seem racist in Europe. but here in America where i live gonna be look at racist and offensive.
so please be careful using the word Wacko Jacko.
Michael didn't like that name so he should of been respected.
|
|
|
|
Post by NatureCriminal7896 on Jun 25, 2022 1:38:53 GMT
Jacko would be a very very popular nickname in Dublin for lads named Jack (I actually know one) as with every other name, Bill - Billo etc. So backing this up there was absolutely positively no racist undertones by him being referred to as Jacko here (at least). Here's one from Northern Ireland:  His funeral was yesterday. was he black? |
|
|
|
Post by NatureCriminal7896 on Jun 25, 2022 2:50:08 GMT
Like i said in my last post Michael did have bad behavior. but race was a part of it too.
so we can't deny race wasn't apart of his problems but his behavior was too.
we need to be real and honest when these topics are brought up. it's about being a real fan and not defending Michael for his wrong doings.
this probably why Michael has haters. not only because they are jealous, racist, etc but he was also stubborn.
that's one of the reasons why i dislike the musical. they make Michael and his mother look like good people and blame everything on his brothers, father, and all the yes people around him. yes they was all wrong too but leaving out Michael wrong doings doesn't make him a human being.
|
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Jun 25, 2022 3:29:30 GMT
that's one of the reasons why i dislike the musical. they make Michael and his mother look like good people I guess you just didn't express yourself very well here. Unless you really think MJ wasn't a good person. Mistakes don't mean someone isn't a good person. MJ was IMO a good person. He had his struggles and mistakes but who doesn't? That doesn't make him a bad person. And have you even seen the musical? Which jukebox musical focuses on the supposed "wrongdoings" of that musician/singer/band? |
|
|
|
Post by pg13 on Jun 25, 2022 5:34:16 GMT
Here's one from Northern Ireland: His funeral was yesterday. was he black? No, but I did provide examples of black people with Jacko as a first name, surname and nickname. 🤔 |
|
|
|
Post by pg13 on Jun 25, 2022 5:45:56 GMT
it's really interesting to get to know everyone here. as a American it's gonna be look at as racist. now i notice that some of you guys are from Europe. each country gonna have different words and terms. it might not seem offensive to some people but maybe to someone else. i get what you guys are saying. but different places and terms gonna have different meanings. so saying Wacko Jacko might not seem racist in Europe. but here in America where i live gonna be look at racist and offensive. so please be careful using the word Wacko Jacko. Michael didn't like that name so he should of been respected. The United States of America is no different to the rest of the world as Jacko is still just a first name, surname and nickname there. Edward W. Jacko was an American Civil Rights Attorney and the first to apply to Howard Law School University in the institution's history. His grave:  There is literally zero racist origin behind the name Jacko in the United States and elsewhere in the world. These facts are indisputable and should be accepted. It is not a racist term.[/IMG] |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2022 5:47:48 GMT
that's one of the reasons why i dislike the musical. they make Michael and his mother look like good people I guess you just didn't express yourself very well here. Unless you really think MJ wasn't a good person. Mistakes don't mean someone isn't a good person. MJ was IMO a good person. He had his struggles and mistakes but who doesn't? That doesn't make him a bad person.And have you even seen the musical? Which jukebox musical focuses on the supposed "wrongdoings" of that musician/singer/band? And if he didn't have those struggles and make mistakes then he wouldn't be as relatable IMO! No one is perfect. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2022 5:49:21 GMT
it's really interesting to get to know everyone here. as a American it's gonna be look at as racist. now i notice that some of you guys are from Europe. each country gonna have different words and terms. it might not seem offensive to some people but maybe to someone else. i get what you guys are saying. but different places and terms gonna have different meanings. so saying Wacko Jacko might not seem racist in Europe. but here in America where i live gonna be look at racist and offensive. so please be careful using the word Wacko Jacko. Michael didn't like that name so he should of been respected. The United States of America is no different to the rest of the world as Jacko is still just a first name, surname and nickname there. Edward W. Jacko was an American Civil Rights Attorney and the first to apply to Howard Law School University in the institution's history. His grave: There is literally zero racist origin behind the name Jacko in the United States and elsewhere in the world. These facts are indisputable and should be accepted. It is not a racist term.Edward Jacko Nazi Attacko |
|
|
|
Post by HIStoric on Jun 25, 2022 6:39:20 GMT
The thing with the whole 'Jacko' nickname.
It's pretty common (especially in Commonwealth countries I've noticed) for people to have their names shortened in that style. I've seen people named Jackson be called Jacko countless times, and likewise I (and millions of other people) commonly refer to Paul McCartney as Macca. In isolation, the name isn't offensive. I think there are many people who would call him Jacko just to shorten his name, or because it is a common nickname, and they wouldn't think much about it because it is common.
The issue comes into play when it was paired with the 'Wacko' term, to become Wacko Jacko, which obviously carries a negative connotation as it's calling him a weirdo. At that point, you're obviously calling him that to mock him.
Now when it comes to Michael Jackson in particular, he grew a strong disdain for the name Jacko because it was so often paired with Wacko and he asked people not to call him that. As such, I don't refer to him by the name Jacko when talking with friends about him (but I will happily refer to Paul McCartney as Macca for instance).
I think it's unrealistic to expect the general public to be aware of some random interview he did 25 years ago where he asked not to be called that. So personally, if someone calls him Jacko in itself, I try not to really take offence - especially if the rest of what they're saying is neutral or positive. Obviously, not keen on Wacko Jacko though.
I don't buy the whole 'Jacko is racist' rhetoric some fans try to push. Could the very, very first people in the tabloid business who coined the term have known the history of the term? Maybe, maybe not, but it's exceptionally obscure and the material I've seen fans reference is material from the 1800s IIRC so it's already pushing it. I think for a fan to suggest someone in the general public who uses the term Wacko Jacko is racist because of that is really, really pushing it. I would not only argue said connection is not known in the general public (and that's a huge understatement), but it's also not even that well known amongst his fans. Sure maybe those super active on social media, but anecdotally, the MJ fans I know IRL don't have a fucking clue about any of this. I think that people using Wacko Jacko are using it to call Michael Jackson a weirdo and to put him down personally, not to call him a monkey because he's African-American, and therefore insult his race too. The people who want to be racist towards him will have other ways, subtle and obvious, to do so.
|
|
|
|
Post by pg13 on Jun 25, 2022 8:00:25 GMT
The thing with the whole 'Jacko' nickname.
It's pretty common (especially in Commonwealth countries I've noticed) for people to have their names shortened in that style. I've seen people named Jackson be called Jacko countless times, and likewise I (and millions of other people) commonly refer to Paul McCartney as Macca. In isolation, the name isn't offensive. I think there are many people who would call him Jacko just to shorten his name, or because it is a common nickname, and they wouldn't think much about it because it is common.
The issue comes into play when it was paired with the 'Wacko' term, to become Wacko Jacko, which obviously carries a negative connotation as it's calling him a weirdo. At that point, you're obviously calling him that to mock him.
Now when it comes to Michael Jackson in particular, he grew a strong disdain for the name Jacko because it was so often paired with Wacko and he asked people not to call him that. As such, I don't refer to him by the name Jacko when talking with friends about him (but I will happily refer to Paul McCartney as Macca for instance).
I think it's unrealistic to expect the general public to be aware of some random interview he did 25 years ago where he asked not to be called that. So personally, if someone calls him Jacko in itself, I try not to really take offence - especially if the rest of what they're saying is neutral or positive. Obviously, not keen on Wacko Jacko though.
I don't buy the whole 'Jacko is racist' rhetoric some fans try to push. Could the very, very first people in the tabloid business who coined the term have known the history of the term? Maybe, maybe not, but it's exceptionally obscure and the material I've seen fans reference is material from the 1800s IIRC so it's already pushing it. I think for a fan to suggest someone in the general public who uses the term Wacko Jacko is racist because of that is really, really pushing it. I would not only argue said connection is not known in the general public (and that's a huge understatement), but it's also not even that well known amongst his fans. Sure maybe those super active on social media, but anecdotally, the MJ fans I know IRL don't have a fucking clue about any of this. I think that people using Wacko Jacko are using it to call Michael Jackson a weirdo and to put him down personally, not to call him a monkey because he's African-American, and therefore insult his race too. The people who want to be racist towards him will have other ways, subtle and obvious, to do so.
Nicely reasoned and well constructed comment. Just one thing to add - there is literally zero racist history behind the term Jacko. None at all in Europe, North America, Africa or Australasia. When some try to claim there's a racist North American history to it, that argument falls down very, very easily as I’ve already shown with several examples. Falsely claiming something is racist whilst ignoring every bit of evidence that proves it's not is highly counterproductive. It WILL usually be used more as a result so MJ fans will dig a bigger hole for themselves. Jacko is at least four hundred years old, so it would be highly, highly unlikely for there to be zero evidence of a racist connotation with it in all those years....if one actually existed. There is none, so it never had a racist history. It really annoyed me to see Vogel and others distorting a part of British history that spread to other parts of the world in the way they did. So I researched it. |
|
TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,492 
|
Post by TonyR on Jun 25, 2022 8:26:06 GMT
The thing with the whole 'Jacko' nickname.
It's pretty common (especially in Commonwealth countries I've noticed) for people to have their names shortened in that style. I've seen people named Jackson be called Jacko countless times, and likewise I (and millions of other people) commonly refer to Paul McCartney as Macca. In isolation, the name isn't offensive. I think there are many people who would call him Jacko just to shorten his name, or because it is a common nickname, and they wouldn't think much about it because it is common.
The issue comes into play when it was paired with the 'Wacko' term, to become Wacko Jacko, which obviously carries a negative connotation as it's calling him a weirdo. At that point, you're obviously calling him that to mock him.
Now when it comes to Michael Jackson in particular, he grew a strong disdain for the name Jacko because it was so often paired with Wacko and he asked people not to call him that. As such, I don't refer to him by the name Jacko when talking with friends about him (but I will happily refer to Paul McCartney as Macca for instance).
I think it's unrealistic to expect the general public to be aware of some random interview he did 25 years ago where he asked not to be called that. So personally, if someone calls him Jacko in itself, I try not to really take offence - especially if the rest of what they're saying is neutral or positive. Obviously, not keen on Wacko Jacko though.
I don't buy the whole 'Jacko is racist' rhetoric some fans try to push. Could the very, very first people in the tabloid business who coined the term have known the history of the term? Maybe, maybe not, but it's exceptionally obscure and the material I've seen fans reference is material from the 1800s IIRC so it's already pushing it. I think for a fan to suggest someone in the general public who uses the term Wacko Jacko is racist because of that is really, really pushing it. I would not only argue said connection is not known in the general public (and that's a huge understatement), but it's also not even that well known amongst his fans. Sure maybe those super active on social media, but anecdotally, the MJ fans I know IRL don't have a fucking clue about any of this. I think that people using Wacko Jacko are using it to call Michael Jackson a weirdo and to put him down personally, not to call him a monkey because he's African-American, and therefore insult his race too. The people who want to be racist towards him will have other ways, subtle and obvious, to do so.
The only post this discussion needs. |
|
|
|
Post by pg13 on Jun 25, 2022 8:51:23 GMT
Swinging back round to Wildstyle's point, here's this offering:   I think Crump has a point here and even fans of stars prefer them to be broken, knowingly or unknowingly. Too many MJ fans portray Michael as a complete victim rather than a victorious man which he was. He's got the last laugh as he's part of music history. |
|
|
|
Post by DirtyD on Jun 25, 2022 10:02:11 GMT
Here's one from Northern Ireland: His funeral was yesterday. was he black? Bruh. |
|
|
|
Post by SmoothGangsta on Jun 25, 2022 22:07:30 GMT
Yes, I think HIStoric said it perfectly. I don't think Jacko itself is racist but when we start saying articles that called him wacko jacko weren't trying to be negative I think we're stretching a little bit there.
|
|
