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Post by Russg on Jul 7, 2022 11:53:15 GMT
As most of you know, I am a proud gay man myself, but even I'm getting a bit tired of the LGBTQ+ agenda being force fed down everyones throats. I would say the vast majority of people under 60 in 2022 are very tolerant and accepting of gays, maybe not so much trans issues, but that's a whole other topic and personally, I know a lot of gay people who don't like trans rights being lumped in with gay rights as if they're the same thing - which they are not.
It used to be "we're here, we're queer, get used to it", but these days its more "you're here, you're queer, now get over it."
I have friends who try dragging me to PRIDE marches and I just can't stomach them anymore. Why do I need to celebrate my sexuality any more than a straight person would? As long as I'm free to openly have a relationship and sleep with my preferred gender, then I really don't see the need to make a spectacle of myself and constantly play the victim card. Yes, there are still homophobes, there always will be homophobes, just like there will always be racists, but at some point, minority groups have to reassess what it is they are fighting for, because as far as I'm concerned, with the legalisation of gay marriage, we now have all the civil rights of a straight couple and live in a society extremely accepting of our life choices. The people still making a spectacle of themselves at PRIDE marches are just doing it for attention these days.
What do you think?
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,413
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Post by TonyR on Jul 7, 2022 12:02:40 GMT
"Forced down everyone's throats."
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,413
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Post by TonyR on Jul 7, 2022 12:07:02 GMT
Better than in my day when people daren't say they were gay for fear of violence, abandonment, or suicide. Or previous to that when you could be jailed.
So, has it gone too far? Well live and let live. If you're not bothered about Pride then it's pretty easy to ignore one day a year.
We don't say has football gone too far when it's all some people talk about for most of the year and then the world stops for The World Cup or Euros every 2 years.
I'd rather a few people got offended or bored by it than millions of people grow up afraid because they are 'different' and scared.
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Post by Russg on Jul 7, 2022 12:08:28 GMT
"Forced down everyone's throats." .... when your taste in porn finds its way into your everyday language.
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Post by Russg on Jul 7, 2022 12:14:18 GMT
Better than in my day when people daren't say they were gay for fear of violence, abandonment, or suicide. Or previous to that when you could be jailed. So, has it gone too far? Well live and let live. If you're not bothered about Pride then it's pretty easy to ignore one day a year. We don't say has football gone too far when it's all some people talk about for most of the year and then the world stops for The World Cup or Euros every 2 years. I'd rather a few people got offended or bored by it than millions of people grow up afraid because they are 'different' and scared. Oh, I know what it's like to be afraid of being yourself and feeling the need to hide in plain sight. I also know what it's like to be bullied for my sexuality. I just see so many kids at these PRIDE marches today acting like they are fighting the good fight, when really they are just making a public spectacle of themselves and they have no idea what it was life to grow up in the 90s or before, when we genuinely had something to fight for, when we were actually persecuted and tormented for being gay. It has also gotten very corporate. There's big money in it now, huge companies wanting to align themselves with LGBTQ+ charities, so as to appear woke and appeal to a younger demographic. They don't give a shit about gay people, it's a marketing ploy and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth (I swear I ain't doing this on purpose lol).
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Post by ghost on Jul 7, 2022 12:25:10 GMT
It is annoying when people make spectacles of themselves for attention.
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Post by HIStoric on Jul 7, 2022 12:25:35 GMT
Better than in my day when people daren't say they were gay for fear of violence, abandonment, or suicide. Or previous to that when you could be jailed. So, has it gone too far? Well live and let live. If you're not bothered about Pride then it's pretty easy to ignore one day a year. We don't say has football gone too far when it's all some people talk about for most of the year and then the world stops for The World Cup or Euros every 2 years. I'd rather a few people got offended or bored by it than millions of people grow up afraid because they are 'different' and scared. I think this sums it up well. I admit that sometimes I feel I hear about it too much, especially around pride month when every company changes their logo to a rainbow… but I also realise I generally associate in liberal circles so hearing about their fight is to be expected. Plus a lot of it for me is on Twitter where I can just scroll or click away from it, whereas IRL it’s definitely more chill since basicslly every person I hang out with is accepting of them and their rights, so the topic really doesn’t come up. So for the absolute most part, it really doesn’t faze me. A once-in-a-blue-moon ever-so-slight annoyance is way waaaaay better than what we had a few decades ago, where people lived in fear of their sexuality being discovered.
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Post by Russg on Jul 7, 2022 12:29:23 GMT
It is annoying when people make spectacles of themselves for attention. Fuck off and die.
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Post by MattyJam on Jul 7, 2022 12:32:02 GMT
Please try and stay on topic guys. ghost no need to antagonise at every opportunity, entertaining though it may be.
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Post by ghost on Jul 7, 2022 12:40:44 GMT
Please try and stay on topic guys. ghost no need to antagonise at every opportunity, entertaining though it may be. That honestly wasn't my intention and I wasn't even being sarcastic in my earlier post. It was a straight-forward remark about people who make a show out of themselves, not directed towards anyone in particular. The fact that Russ interpreted it that way speaks more to his own insecurities.
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Post by MattyJam on Jul 7, 2022 13:14:16 GMT
Better than in my day when people daren't say they were gay for fear of violence, abandonment, or suicide. Or previous to that when you could be jailed. So, has it gone too far? Well live and let live. If you're not bothered about Pride then it's pretty easy to ignore one day a year. We don't say has football gone too far when it's all some people talk about for most of the year and then the world stops for The World Cup or Euros every 2 years. I'd rather a few people got offended or bored by it than millions of people grow up afraid because they are 'different' and scared. Oh, I know what it's like to be afraid of being yourself and feeling the need to hide in plain sight. I also know what it's like to be bullied for my sexuality. I just see so many kids at these PRIDE marches today acting like they are fighting the good fight, when really they are just making a public spectacle of themselves and they have no idea what it was life to grow up in the 90s or before, when we genuinely had something to fight for, when we were actually persecuted and tormented for being gay. It has also gotten very corporate. There's big money in it now, huge companies wanting to align themselves with LGBTQ+ charities, so as to appear woke and appeal to a younger demographic. They don't give a shit about gay people, it's a marketing ploy and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth (I swear I ain't doing this on purpose lol). I'm pretty sure most gay people would forgo the marches to live a world where being gay was a complete non-issue. I think the younger generation of gay people probably feel empowered THANKS TO the older generations struggle, which is something you should feel proud about, more than anything.
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Post by SmoothGangsta on Jul 7, 2022 14:25:07 GMT
Nope, doesn't bother me at all. Corporations using it to market products in a cynical way is a different thing and is something that can be annoying at times.
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Post by pg13 on Jul 7, 2022 16:59:54 GMT
As most of you know, I am a proud gay man myself, but even I'm getting a bit tired of the LGBTQ+ agenda being force fed down everyones throats. I would say the vast majority of people under 60 in 2022 are very tolerant and accepting of gays, maybe not so much trans issues, but that's a whole other topic and personally, I know a lot of gay people who don't like trans rights being lumped in with gay rights as if they're the same thing - which they are not. It used to be "we're here, we're queer, get used to it", but these days its more "you're here, you're queer, now get over it." I have friends who try dragging me to PRIDE marches and I just can't stomach them anymore. Why do I need to celebrate my sexuality any more than a straight person would? As long as I'm free to openly have a relationship and sleep with my preferred gender, then I really don't see the need to make a spectacle of myself and constantly play the victim card. Yes, there are still homophobes, there always will be homophobes, just like there will always be racists, but at some point, minority groups have to reassess what it is they are fighting for, because as far as I'm concerned, with the legalisation of gay marriage, we now have all the civil rights of a straight couple and live in a society extremely accepting of our life choices. The people still making a spectacle of themselves at PRIDE marches are just doing it for attention these days. What do you think? I can totally get where you're coming from and I come from a very similar perspective as I'd be bloody mortified if a Deaf Pride shite ever caught on. What it does is perpetuate stereotypes and create difference where there meaningfully isn't any in 2022. And it then becomes about wanting special attention when most of the people they claim to speak for want to just get on with things without special attention or unhelpful stereotypes being foisted onto them. Deaf Pride would seriously annoy me because my life basically about NOT being defined by it OR being treated differently from the rest of the population. There is a culture of Deaf people who are all about being separate from hearing people and resent technologies that helps bridge the gap because they think it'll wipe out Deaf culture. From what I've seen, this mentality exists within a good proportion of the gay community. Hence, the OTT aspect of pride - the more accepted they become, the more assimilation occurs and the more they fear their community disappearing. This would explain the extension to the trans side of things to a good degree. Controversy has a way of breathing life into things as well as delaying the feared assimilation. It sounds like that's how you feel about the gay pride situation. It's perfectly valid, especially as it's really used for a piss up which a lot of gay people cite as a reason they're not in favour. The world doesn't need more division into categories, including gay and deaf. These things don't and shouldn't define a person, but a pride mentality forces this definition onto all who fit those. As such, I am not part of the deaf community, don't agree there's a culture separate from the rest of society and certainly welcome technological advances to essentially make it extinct. Like yours, my generation made a lot of things happen for the better, but we never dud it to create further difference. We dud it to erase those perceived differences. No, the world needs more unity. We're all people at the end of the day. The other things we have are secondary to that. And should never be the primary focus. So, I get your perspective here.
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,413
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Post by TonyR on Jul 7, 2022 18:27:24 GMT
Sort of missing the point.
Pretty much ever since religion started, LGBT people have been told that what they naturally are is shameful and wrong.
Imagine being told something you naturally are that doesn't affect anyone else, is SHAMEFUL and WRONG.
Not just told it, but punished, abandoned, taunted, attacked and killed.
Even now people are attacked and being outed is still a thing.
Thank God (in an ironic sense) that people now live in a world (or most of it) where they can be proud of who and what they are.
Full power to 'em.
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Post by pg13 on Jul 7, 2022 19:24:51 GMT
Sort of missing the point. Pretty much ever since religion started, LGBT people have been told that what they naturally are is shameful and wrong. Imagine being told something you naturally are that doesn't affect anyone else, is SHAMEFUL and WRONG. Not just told it, but punished, abandoned, taunted, attacked and killed. Even now people are attacked and being outed is still a thing. Thank God (in an ironic sense) that people now live in a world (or most of it) where they can be proud of who and what they are. Full power to 'em. Is that for me? The same thing has historically happened to those with disabilities of various kinds too. Exactly as described in your post and still occurs today. Like Russ, I've certainly experienced my fair share of discrimination. But, by and large, things are very different in 2022 in both sets of experiences. The West has made great strides. Places such as the African continent have not for various reasons. In such places, it's still dangerous to be gay, deaf and in many cases both. But I can very much see Russ' point of view. As he said here: In other words, he doesn't want to be regarded as any different from straight people. I totally identify with that. Russ has a point here that Pride has veered a long way from its origins and become something it wasn't meant to be as well as perpetuating stereotypes of gay people. Given that civil rights has been widely extended in the West, is there really a need for Pride parades in 2022? It seems to me this is what he's asking. I would agree no and the exact same applies to any concept of a Deaf Pride parade. There is no real difference between us and them these days. Past struggles are exactly that - Past. And fulfilled in a massive way. Another reason a large proportion of gay people no longer like Pride is the reality it is not inclusive of disabled people of various types as this person states at one point here: "Why I Hate Pride. How We Fracture Our Community Every… | by Zayn Singh | Think Queerly" thinkqueerly.com/why-i-hate-pride-b02b81632417So, it's much more multifaceted than many people might assume. In many ways, there's significant commonalities in experiences between gay and disabled people. Yet I would still be absolutely mortified at any Deaf or Disabled Pride parade. It does create difference in a real way when that's what you're trying to do away with.
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