TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,413
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Post by TonyR on Jul 7, 2022 19:34:15 GMT
Although people with disabilities have had their fair share of bullying etc. On the whole they have been treated with dignity and fairness (obviously not at school where kids can be shits!).
But it's not comparable. The OP wasn't would you like a Pride event for whatever marginalised community you're part of.
I don't want Jewish Pride or Michael Jackson Fan Pride. My Mum doesn't want Mother's Pride (mainly because she's gluten intolerant (very niche joke there).
With Gay Pride, like I said, it's the antithesis to generations being told to be SHAMEFUL. It's symbolic that we have come full circle, whilst still having lots to do.
As a deaf person, you don't need to feel unsafe when walking the streets that you're going to be attacked for being deaf, or taunted, or can't hold you're partner's hand, or need to have own pubs so you can behave as you want without fear of prejudice.
And on the bandwagon jumping companies with pride flags, it's more than that. It also means they have to provide safe space and equality at work. They can't just talk the talk anymore they need to follow it up with action. Which is great.
Generations of gay people fought for this. It's as important as VE day or Armed Forces Day or anything else that pays tribute to the struggles of past generations.
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Post by pg13 on Jul 7, 2022 21:53:49 GMT
Although people with disabilities have had their fair share of bullying etc. On the whole they have been treated with dignity and fairness (obviously not at school where kids can be shits!). This is basically Russ' point here: He's spot on there in regards to the Western world. Obviously Africa and the Middle East are completely different where it wouldn't be possible for him to live as he pleases. In the West, the "on the whole" applies to this as well as to the disabled. There is a lot of commonalities between them, in fact. Of course, it wasn't. Yet I could see exactly where Russ was coming from, hence my perspective by way of example. If you don't have a similar life experience, you'll be less likely to see things from a similar viewpoint. I think Russ' point is equal rights before the law has been achieved and so its not needed in 2022. That is not necessarily true by any means as there are no guarantees. This was in Manchester, UK in 2018: www.itv.com/news/granada/2018-08-01/shocking-unprovoked-attack-on-deaf-man-stabbed-over-using-sign-languageNew York City in 2021: "Woman throws boiling water in deaf man’s face before stabbing him in shocking assault | The Independent" www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/deaf-man-assault-boiling-water-b1934134.html?ampIt can happen today. In the United States, there's quite a list of deaf people who have been assaulted by the police due to this. One sued Colorado Police last year for excessive use of force. I don't take it for granted I'll be completely safe on the streets and the above are good examples of why. This is another one too - many of them will go to places specifically for deaf people. Again, fear of bigotry and prejudice plays a big part in creating their own spaces. Or they become isolated at home. As a result, exclusivity is practiced rather than inclusivity. A problem for both communities in many ways. I don't think you're familiar enough with disabled experiences to be able to ascertain degree of commonalities between the two. As I said, I can see exactly where Russ is coming from. The guy doesn't want to be defined by his sexuality and I can understand that very deeply. Other gay people who aren't suppprtive of the Pride Parades: "Why I'm Not Proud of Being Gay - Scientific American Blog Network" blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in-mind/why-im-not-proud-of-being-gay/www.pride.com/pride/2016/6/09/why-i-dont-attend-pride-events-anymoreThere's more available with similar viewpoints. Many in the LGBTQ community are also highly critical of corporate involvement in Pride branding. They view it as opportunistic amongst other things. "Woke-washing: how brands are cashing in on the culture wars | Advertising | The Guardian" amp.theguardian.com/media/2019/may/23/woke-washing-brands-cashing-in-on-culture-wars-owen-jones"25 corporations marking Pride donated over $10m to anti-LGBTQ+ politicians – study | US news | The Guardian" amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/14/corporations-anti-lgbtq-politicians-donations-studyLittle wonder then that Reclaim Pride is a growing thing: "Reclaim Pride Coalition - Wikipedia" en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reclaim_Pride_CoalitionAll in all, I completely get where Russ is coming from on this one. I think he's right.
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Post by DirtyD on Jul 8, 2022 9:58:11 GMT
Eh, not really. I think it has more to do with the times we’re in where things have to be in your face all the time. It’s not a big deal.
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Post by pg13 on Jul 8, 2022 11:21:23 GMT
As most of you know, I am a proud gay man myself, but even I'm getting a bit tired of the LGBTQ+ agenda being force fed down everyones throats. I would say the vast majority of people under 60 in 2022 are very tolerant and accepting of gays, maybe not so much trans issues, but that's a whole other topic and personally, I know a lot of gay people who don't like trans rights being lumped in with gay rights as if they're the same thing - which they are not. It used to be "we're here, we're queer, get used to it", but these days its more "you're here, you're queer, now get over it." I have friends who try dragging me to PRIDE marches and I just can't stomach them anymore. Why do I need to celebrate my sexuality any more than a straight person would? As long as I'm free to openly have a relationship and sleep with my preferred gender, then I really don't see the need to make a spectacle of myself and constantly play the victim card. Yes, there are still homophobes, there always will be homophobes, just like there will always be racists, but at some point, minority groups have to reassess what it is they are fighting for, because as far as I'm concerned, with the legalisation of gay marriage, we now have all the civil rights of a straight couple and live in a society extremely accepting of our life choices. The people still making a spectacle of themselves at PRIDE marches are just doing it for attention these days. What do you think? I have a question for you, Russ. How did your feelings and views regarding the annual Pride Parade evolve over time and wasn't influenced to any degree by things within the following article? "June is meant to celebrate Pride but it also brings a spike in hate crimes to Utah | KUER" www.kuer.org/race-religion-social-justice/2022-06-09/june-is-meant-to-celebrate-pride-but-it-also-brings-a-spike-in-hate-crimes-to-utahChanges and evolution in people's views on many things over time is really interesting.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2022 21:46:45 GMT
The new flag is pretty shit. Other than that I've no problem with what doesn't affect me really.
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Post by Russg on Jul 10, 2022 12:15:22 GMT
As most of you know, I am a proud gay man myself, but even I'm getting a bit tired of the LGBTQ+ agenda being force fed down everyones throats. I would say the vast majority of people under 60 in 2022 are very tolerant and accepting of gays, maybe not so much trans issues, but that's a whole other topic and personally, I know a lot of gay people who don't like trans rights being lumped in with gay rights as if they're the same thing - which they are not. It used to be "we're here, we're queer, get used to it", but these days its more "you're here, you're queer, now get over it." I have friends who try dragging me to PRIDE marches and I just can't stomach them anymore. Why do I need to celebrate my sexuality any more than a straight person would? As long as I'm free to openly have a relationship and sleep with my preferred gender, then I really don't see the need to make a spectacle of myself and constantly play the victim card. Yes, there are still homophobes, there always will be homophobes, just like there will always be racists, but at some point, minority groups have to reassess what it is they are fighting for, because as far as I'm concerned, with the legalisation of gay marriage, we now have all the civil rights of a straight couple and live in a society extremely accepting of our life choices. The people still making a spectacle of themselves at PRIDE marches are just doing it for attention these days. What do you think? I have a question for you, Russ. How did your feelings and views regarding the annual Pride Parade evolve over time and wasn't influenced to any degree by things within the following article? "June is meant to celebrate Pride but it also brings a spike in hate crimes to Utah | KUER" www.kuer.org/race-religion-social-justice/2022-06-09/june-is-meant-to-celebrate-pride-but-it-also-brings-a-spike-in-hate-crimes-to-utahChanges and evolution in people's views on many things over time is really interesting. I never felt entirely comfortable with the whole Pride Parade thing. I get the reason behind it and feel that perhaps there was a time when it was helpful in terms of visibility and making a political point. But I've always disliked how it played up to every stereotype imagineable that you would expect, particularly of gay men. In that way, I actually think it's quite harmful in how outsiders perceive us. I mean, can you blame a mom for shielding her kids eyes at the sight of grown men dressed in PVC thongs carrying other grown men on dog leads? I've seen that before at a Pride event. My take on it is, keep the freak to the bedroom and show people we're not a threat and just the same as everyone else, irrespective of our sexual preferences. I've only ever been to two Pride Parades in my life, but from what I can fathom, they've become increasingly more nauseating in recent years. A meaningless excuse for a piss-up without any real cause behind it. I guess it was inevitable it was always going to be reduced to what it is today with society becoming more tolerant. What's left to fight for? There's a reason what was once known as the LGB community has now been hijacked by the Trans movement. It just irks me seeing young 16-17yr olds out marching, thinking they're fighting the good fight when really all a lot of them are doing is getting inebriated and perpetuating harmful stereotypes that paint gay men as weirdos.
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Post by butterflies2 on Aug 8, 2022 3:00:09 GMT
Well I’m queer but I don’t flaunt it though I do have lgbtq friends and support them. Have never been to pride or a gay club though. But also, I support in those rights cause they are entitled to a peaceful life free of discrimination.
I think people are getting more tolerant these days than in the past. When I went to high school, there was a lot of homophobia , and I felt alienated a bit in university cause I had a so called friend who was homophobic and had no idea what she was saying that it kept me from joining an lgbtq space which I think would have benefitted me then
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Post by NatureCriminal7896 on Aug 8, 2022 10:06:20 GMT
This.
as someone who is a christian a person of faith. you pretty much know my respond.
that being said i think the term rights has been twisted.
just because someone is a christain, person of faith, or just plain heterosexual in general does not mean they hate anyone who choose this life choice.
i love anyone who a homosexual. i will respect that person.
why do i need to know who someone sleep with? that's the person freedom.
but at sametime i don't believe in it just like someone might not share the same faith as me etc.
now i will say there's alot bad people out there. while i don't believe in the life choice i do believe people who do choose this life choice should protected from hate crime.
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Post by butterflies2 on Aug 18, 2022 4:48:23 GMT
I lied, I did go to gay-friendly club jams sometimes, but the friend I had with me was being homophobic cause she didn’t know I identified as well. We went for the music mainly
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Post by Michaels Lover on Aug 18, 2022 7:58:48 GMT
This. as someone who is a christian a person of faith. you pretty much know my respond. that being said i think the term rights has been twisted. just because someone is a christain, person of faith, or just plain heterosexual in general does not mean they hate anyone who choose this life choice. i love anyone who a homosexual. i will respect that person. why do i need to know who someone sleep with? that's the person freedom. but at sametime i don't believe in it just like someone might not share the same faith as me etc. now i will say there's alot bad people out there. while i don't believe in the life choice i do believe people who do choose this life choice should protected from hate crime. It's not something they "choose". Being gay is no more of a choice than being straight is
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Seven
Wondering Who
Posts: 75
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Post by Seven on Oct 31, 2022 23:24:44 GMT
To answer to question posed by the title, no I’m not.
A person celebrating status as an LGBTQ+ person is no more “forced down people’s throats” than a person representing their favourite sports team with jerseys, decals and face paint.
Pride parades and celebrations exist to highlight people’s strength in the face of adversity, the success in overcoming unjust laws and treatment. Just because gay and trans people are “allowed to exist” at a legal level doesn’t mean that there’s no more progress to be made. There are still prominent hate groups, street harassment, workplace discrimination, and just a general lack of education and understanding when it comes to people that deviate from the socially accepted norm.
What I am sick of is people seeing one individual/small group of people say, for example, x person deserves death for what they’ve said about trans people and assume that the entire community feels that way. We just want to live, man. Without fear of harassment, harm or murder for existing as we are. The gay/trans panic defense is still a reliable defense to use when charged with a hate crime against a queer person. Things can always be better, so I see no reason to quit.
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