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Post by Russg on Feb 1, 2023 15:31:06 GMT
I was saddened and dismayed to see the moderator of this very board outing himself as a bigot and a TERF on Twitter today.
I don't know what you were thinking posting this Matty, but if this truly aligns with your values then I am afraid this board that I've come to love is no longer a safe space for the likes of myself.
I thought we were past this in 2023, I really did.
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Post by electriceyes on Feb 1, 2023 15:52:00 GMT
Or maybe he just thinks Harry Styles and Sam Smith are crap?
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Post by Russg on Feb 1, 2023 15:53:43 GMT
Or maybe he just thinks Harry Styles and Sam Smith are crap? So it's just a coincidence he happened to use pictures of both artists wearing androgynous looking stage outfits? Pull the other one.
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Post by electriceyes on Feb 1, 2023 15:55:38 GMT
Or maybe he just thinks Harry Styles and Sam Smith are crap? So it's just a coincidence he happened to use pictures of both artists wearing androgynous looking stage outfits? Pull the other one. I think you're being a bit OTT. I'm sure no harm was intended.
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Post by Russg on Feb 1, 2023 15:57:33 GMT
So it's just a coincidence he happened to use pictures of both artists wearing androgynous looking stage outfits? Pull the other one. I think you're being a bit OTT. I'm sure no harm was intended. Typical cis privilege response. I've had a lifetime of this kind of subtle, underhanded bigotry and it is neither harmless nor trivial.
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Post by invinciblegal on Feb 1, 2023 16:00:56 GMT
I think it's certainly misguided. I'm not sure if Matty himself came up with the meme or just reposted it, but either way, prejudice should have no place in the MJ fan community.
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Post by SmoothGangsta on Feb 1, 2023 16:30:51 GMT
I mean, this board is pretty anti trans generally from what I've seen, I'm surprised you haven't seen it before now.
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Post by MattyJam on Feb 1, 2023 16:36:31 GMT
Okay, look, I personally don't see anything wrong with that meme. And yes, I made it myself. It wasn't about the fact that they are wearing androgynous clothing (I'm a massive Prince/Morrissey/Bowie fan, who were doing androgyny before Styles and Smith were even born).
I picked those particular pictures of those two artists because I happen to believe that they do this stuff mostly for shock and awe, with little in the way of talent or substance to back it up. I contrasted it with the MJ picture - someone who I think embodies class and talent - to show the difference in substance and quality between said performers.
I have no issue with trans people or men who want to wear traditionally feminine clothing. If I believed either Smith or Styles did this stuff to truly express themselves as artists (like Boy George or Pete Burns did back in the day) then I certainly wouldn't have posted it. But I find their whole get-up a tad cynical and calculating, more about courting headlines and appearing to be "edgy" than a genuine artistic expression of the self. Likely to compensate for their dull-as-dishwater music...
I would say I'm sorry if it caused offense as it honestly wasn't my intention, but to be frank, I'm really not. In the words of your idol/mortal enemy Madonna, "I'm not your bitch, don't hang your shit on me."
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,413
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Post by TonyR on Feb 1, 2023 16:51:34 GMT
Here we go....the problem is if you say anything against someone who is trans or non binary then you're automatically against the whole movement.
I can think Smith is a douche and not be against the whole thing.
I know Matty well enough that he embraces the whole live and let live ethos.
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Post by Russg on Feb 1, 2023 18:27:51 GMT
I contrasted it with the MJ picture - someone who I think embodies class and talent But a trans person can't embody class or have talent? more about courting headlines and appearing to be "edgy" If this was 20 years ago, you'd have been one of those people accusing gays of doing it just because it's "fashionable." It never has been and likely never will be. Being gay is hard, beings trans is even harder. You really have no idea about the mental anguish I've lived with just for living my life as my authentic self. I have no issue with trans people or men who want to wear traditionally feminine clothing. That's mighty good of you. If I believed either Smith or Styles did this stuff to truly express themselves as artists (like Boy George or Pete Burns did back in the day) then I certainly wouldn't have posted it. Who are you to judge why they are wearing these clothes? It's okay for Prince and Bowie to wear it because you like their music but not Sam Smith or Harry Styles? I would say I'm sorry if it caused offense as it honestly wasn't my intention, but to be frank, I'm really not. In the words of your idol/mortal enemy Madonna, "I'm not your bitch, don't hang your shit on me." I don't even know what to say to this Matty. I thought you were a good guy, but you're coming off like a total dick here and IDGAF if you ban me. You deserve to be called out on your prejudice.
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Post by MattyJam on Feb 1, 2023 19:00:59 GMT
But a trans person can't embody class or have talent? I never said that. I said I don't think Sam Smith and Harry Styles do. If this was 20 years ago, you'd have been one of those people accusing gays of doing it just because it's "fashionable." It never has been and likely never will be. Being gay is hard, beings trans is even harder. You really have no idea about the mental anguish I've lived with just for living my life as my authentic self. You're talking to yourself here. Firstly, I don't necessarily see that gay rights automatically conflate with trans issues. I know a lot of gay people who have major issues with this - many don't even like trans being under the LGBQ banner. Just because I think some public figures are jumping on the trans bandwagon or affiliating with the movement for commercial/marketing purposes (ahem... Harry Styles), that doesn't say anything about how liberal my stance would've been on gay rights 20-30yrs ago. The two have nothing in common. My brother is gay by the way and was bullied for being so. He is one of my best friends and we've always been thick as thieves. I love him dearly - so I've seen it first hand and sympathize with what you've had to go through. Who are you to judge why they are wearing these clothes? It's okay for Prince and Bowie to wear it because you like their music but not Sam Smith or Harry Styles? I think there's a genuine difference between Prince/Bowie and Smith/Styles, yes. For starters, the cultural landscape of the late 70s/early 80s was completely different to that of 2023. I think Prince and Bowie did the whole androgyny thing to make a statement about individualism and being fearless as an artist at a time that was mostly hostile towards that stuff. Could you honestly say the same about why Sam Smith and Harry Styles do it? I know Smith is actually trans, but he goes out of his way to wear the most ridiculously OTT outfits that no woman would be seen dead in, purely for the publicity. And Harry Styles is just vying for the pink pound - something he has long been accused of and which is plain as day to anyone with eyes.
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,413
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Post by TonyR on Feb 1, 2023 22:16:13 GMT
Embodies tje whole issue here.
You're either out (no pun intended) or you're anti.
No room for nuance.
If you don't like Sam Smith, you're a terrible (whatever that is).
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Post by MattyJam on Feb 2, 2023 0:32:04 GMT
FWIW, I have deleted the tweet. Ruth - I am sorry, the tweet was insensitive and misguided. I have nothing but respect for anybody who is brave enough to live their truth. My dislike of Sam Smith and Harry Styles has nothing to do with how they choose to dress and everything to do with them being crap popstars. But then, if we're comparing people to Michael, then everyone's crap, let's face it. I was surprised to see SmoothGangsta's remark that he thinks this board is anti-trans. Obviously I can't speak for all the members here, but I sincerely hope you and anyone reading this knows that I am not personally prejudice or bigoted towards any marginalised group. If that tweet made it seem otherwise, then I apologise unreservedly.
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Post by Russg on Feb 2, 2023 16:40:26 GMT
FWIW, I have deleted the tweet. Ruth - I am sorry, the tweet was insensitive and misguided. I have nothing but respect for anybody who is brave enough to live their truth. My dislike of Sam Smith and Harry Styles has nothing to do with how they choose to dress and everything to do with them being crap popstars. But then, if we're comparing people to Michael, then everyone's crap, let's face it. I was surprised to see SmoothGangsta 's remark that he thinks this board is anti-trans. Obviously I can't speak for all the members here, but I sincerely hope you and anyone reading this knows that I am not personally prejudice or bigoted towards any marginalised group. If that tweet made it seem otherwise, then I apologise unreservedly. I appreciate this Matty. I am fairly new myself to the trans experience, but it is making sense to me in so many ways and I honestly feel happier than I've ever been since I was a child. I don't want to become one of those militant trans activists who jumps down people's throats for any little thing. I understand that it's a new concept for many people and they have a hard time wrapping their heads around some of it. Even in the trans community there is widespread debate, conflict and confusion over many of the key issues. But I did find the tone of your meme to be mocking towards men who choose to wear "womens" clothes and as someone who has felt the need to dress in my mom and sisters outfits since before I even knew what being gay meant, it was a trigger point for me. Thank-you for taking the time to apologise and be sincere about it. You are one of the good ones and I will change the title of this post.
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Post by Liberian Girl on Feb 2, 2023 18:43:51 GMT
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