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Post by aazzaabb on Jul 14, 2023 20:39:37 GMT
Beforehand, leading up to it, I agree. But didn't you find it oddly deflating when it actually took place? I remember talking to my friends about it and we all felt something was off, like he didn't really seem to want to do it. Have to say that subsided for a moment when tickets went on sale a few days later. Managing to secure those was probably the last time I felt that hyped about anything regarding MJ. I came home on my lunch break for that press conference. Less than a minute into it, my wife and I looked at each other like "something isn't right here". So, that announcement wasn't a great memory either. The lead up to it with the fans in the crowd was normal. What followed that wasn't. Also the TII ticket sakes. Went mad snapping up tickets to four shows and the fifth show was opening night in the first or second row via our then contacts at Sony. We had major plans for our members to tie in with the concerts - a blog series was one idea I recall which no other fan forum was doing. We had other ideas too. Alas. But I never actually booked travel and accommodation as we had this niggling feeling Michael wasn't going to make it on stage. In 2008, I had a thread on psychoanalysing MJ where I stated I didn't think he'd make it past 50 - one or two here might remember it. So, we'd had that feeling for a while so even the tickets couldn't be a high point memory in the end. It's really been a long time since fans have had some truly great moments. HIStory was really the last one. Yes! I remember all of the above! We also didn’t book travel and accommodation. I had very similar unexplainable feelings like you. I never felt like these shows were actually going to happen in a weird sort of way.
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Post by aazzaabb on Jul 14, 2023 21:03:47 GMT
It's really been a long time since fans have had some truly great moments. HIStory was really the last one. Yeah and it's quite depressing that the estate haven't released one product worthy of discussion in this thread. I know things will never be the same with him gone etc, but it's piss poor that in 14 years they haven't truly released anything worthy of his name and united the fanbase in praise and celebration for him. Although I agree, and I’ve been spoiled by other artists over the years who have massively higher standards by comparison, I enjoyed Bad25 and Xscape for what they were. Bad25 felt like it was some sort of step in the right direction; album with bonus tracks, live CD, Bad Tour 88 concert dvd for the first time ever, Spike Lee documentary etc. Now, it could be argued that each one of those had its own faults but there was a celebratory feel amongst fans and the general public, and there was decent promo including GMTV discussing it and the Pepsi cans. The advertisements were great. I know some fans loath the Xscape album but I remember buying it and sitting down to listen to it and really enjoying it. The Deluxe edition. I just felt “yeah this weirdly works and as a once-off I like it.” Ultimately I agree with you.
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Post by aazzaabb on Jul 14, 2023 21:08:54 GMT
I believe PG13 was at that concert also. I learned about a lot of stuff from around 1999 after the fact. I remember buying Adrian Grant’s The Visual Documentary book in the early 2000’s and being surprised by how much I’d been unaware of and how out of the loop I’d been for a few years. Indeed I was! Well remembered. Remember the disappointment of the fans when MJ and Pavarotti didn't premiere WMCIG in the end. IIRC, Mj was explaining the situation to the crowd but you couldn't hear him over the screaming. I guess you could count MJ calling into the fan event at Barnstaple, Devon which we'd helped promote. Organised by Matt Fiddes and Xscape2003 aka George. My team gave a speech, we met Tito, TJ and Taj. After that, Michael's phone call with Tito snd the lads was put on loudspeaker to us all. That was great! Unfortunately, no-one could make out a thing as some ridiculous girls were screaming. One was sitting next to me, unfortunately. You could hear Michael but not decipher him. I don't understand that kind of nonsense to this day - a phone call from MJ! Just listen and then maybe do that afterwards! That was June 2008. I remember it well. I was following along on the forum from Ireland, waiting for updates. When MJ phoned people were going nuts. I feel your frustration.😆
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Post by aazzaabb on Jul 14, 2023 21:16:57 GMT
HIStory on Film Vol ll Part OneHIStory on Film Vol ll Part Two Now, THAT was a release! Got that on VHS in 1998 and the DVD later when it came out in 2000. Unfortunately, the last great VHS/DVD release of his career. 🤩 Same. I still have my VHS and also got the DVD eventually. Number Ones was weak by comparison and The One -although I like the content- there just wasn’t enough bloody content! It clocked in all of 30 minutes! The version that aired on TV was longer and included a section about The Way You Make Me Feel.
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Post by MichaelD on Jul 15, 2023 0:24:47 GMT
MichaelD thank you for your amazing pictures as always. I watched it live on TV and loved it. Especially when MJ threw his jacket into the crowd and just seeing him smile knowing his fans were still there with him. I also remember the typical fallout and headlines the next day Jacko Booed Off Stage etc. They just couldn’t give him his dues could they?! It was a wonderful moment in terms of MJ standing on a stage again and showing the world he still had a fanbase, career and was still Michael Jackson. Yes! I forgot to include this photo. And just like MattyJam said, the audience booed when Rihanna entered the stage. But not because of her per se, the crowd waited for hours and anticipated Michael. It must've been 11 pm already. So they didn't boo on her entire performance, I guess it was simply an imidiate reaction of disappointment. Poor Rihanna.
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Post by MattyJam on Jul 15, 2023 11:20:39 GMT
Yeah and it's quite depressing that the estate haven't released one product worthy of discussion in this thread. I know things will never be the same with him gone etc, but it's piss poor that in 14 years they haven't truly released anything worthy of his name and united the fanbase in praise and celebration for him. Although I agree, and I’ve been spoiled by other artists over the years who have massively higher standards by comparison, I enjoyed Bad25 and Xscape for what they were. Bad25 felt like it was some sort of step in the right direction; album with bonus tracks, live CD, Bad Tour 88 concert dvd for the first time ever, Spike Lee documentary etc. Now, it could be argued that each one of those had its own faults but there was a celebratory feel amongst fans and the general public, and there was decent promo including GMTV discussing it and the Pepsi cans. The advertisements were great. I know some fans loath the Xscape album but I remember buying it and sitting down to listen to it and really enjoying it. The Deluxe edition. I just felt “yeah this weirdly works and as a once-off I like it.” Ultimately I agree with you. Bad 25 was good I guess, but it's a crying shame that there hasn't been one single release that was truly worth the hype. The last MJ product I really loved was The Ultimate Collection, which is one of the last releases MJ put his name to during his lifetime. The estate haven't come close to putting out anything as classy, well designed and rich in content in their 15yrs in charge.
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Post by aazzaabb on Jul 15, 2023 12:16:24 GMT
MichaelD thank you for your amazing pictures as always. I watched it live on TV and loved it. Especially when MJ threw his jacket into the crowd and just seeing him smile knowing his fans were still there with him. I also remember the typical fallout and headlines the next day Jacko Booed Off Stage etc. They just couldn’t give him his dues could they?! It was a wonderful moment in terms of MJ standing on a stage again and showing the world he still had a fanbase, career and was still Michael Jackson. Yes! I forgot to include this photo. And just like MattyJam said, the audience booed when Rihanna entered the stage. But not because of her per se, the crowd waited for hours and anticipated Michael. It must've been 11 pm already. So they didn't boo on her entire performance, I guess it was simply an imidiate reaction of disappointment. Poor Rihanna.
I remember her being booed during the broadcast. As you say, it was nothing personal just that fans were anticipating MJ. Love that shot of MJ mid-throw-hair-flow!
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Post by pg13 on Jul 15, 2023 12:19:10 GMT
Now, THAT was a release! Got that on VHS in 1998 and the DVD later when it came out in 2000. Unfortunately, the last great VHS/DVD release of his career. 🤩 Same. I still have my VHS and also got the DVD eventually. Number Ones was weak by comparison and The One -although I like the content- there just wasn’t enough bloody content! It clocked in all of 30 minutes! The version that aired on TV was longer and included a section about The Way You Make Me Feel. I bought The One on day of release, watched it and took it back to HMV for a refund on the same day. That's how disappointed I was with it....
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Post by aazzaabb on Jul 15, 2023 12:31:14 GMT
Although I agree, and I’ve been spoiled by other artists over the years who have massively higher standards by comparison, I enjoyed Bad25 and Xscape for what they were. Bad25 felt like it was some sort of step in the right direction; album with bonus tracks, live CD, Bad Tour 88 concert dvd for the first time ever, Spike Lee documentary etc. Now, it could be argued that each one of those had its own faults but there was a celebratory feel amongst fans and the general public, and there was decent promo including GMTV discussing it and the Pepsi cans. The advertisements were great. I know some fans loath the Xscape album but I remember buying it and sitting down to listen to it and really enjoying it. The Deluxe edition. I just felt “yeah this weirdly works and as a once-off I like it.” Ultimately I agree with you. Bad 25 was good I guess, but it's a crying shame that there hasn't been one single release that was truly worth the hype. The last MJ product I really loved was The Ultimate Collection, which is one of the last releases MJ put his name to during his lifetime. The estate haven't come close to putting out anything as classy, well designed and rich in content in their 15yrs in charge. I think what’s sad is that their primary -and only objective only- is to make as much money as possible at all costs. Selling a portion of MJ’s catalog to Sony is quite sad since he wanted out from that label and when he died there was a list of potential record labels next to his bed that he was considering for releasing music with moving forward and Sony was not on that list. The estate will happily sell Sony a portion of the catalog for hundreds of millions of dollars but won’t work in tandem with Sony to produce Sign “O” The Times Deluxe level products. It’s a sad indictment of a certain ego at play. Yes, The Ultimate Collection was the last decent release which funnily enough was conceived/thrown together to finish out MJ’s contractual obligations.
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Post by pg13 on Jul 15, 2023 12:44:21 GMT
Bad 25 was good I guess, but it's a crying shame that there hasn't been one single release that was truly worth the hype. The last MJ product I really loved was The Ultimate Collection, which is one of the last releases MJ put his name to during his lifetime. The estate haven't come close to putting out anything as classy, well designed and rich in content in their 15yrs in charge. I think what’s sad is that their primary -and only objective only- is to make as much money as possible at all costs. Selling a portion of MJ’s catalog to Sony is quite sad since he wanted out from that label and when he died there was a list of potential record labels next to his bed that he was considering for releasing music with moving forward and Sony was not on that list. The estate will happily sell Sony a portion of the catalog for hundreds of millions of dollars but won’t work in tandem with Sony to produce Sign “O” The Times Deluxe level products. It’s a sad indictment of a certain ego at play. Yes, The Ultimate Collection was the last decent release which funnily enough was conceived/thrown together to finish out MJ’s contractual obligations. Michael's contract with Sony expired in, IIRC, December 2002 which makes Number Ones the last official release of that contract. After that, Michael continued a single project at a time relationship with Sony once Mottola left. TUC was one of those as was KOP. Indeed, Sony helped MJ restructure his finances in 2006 so he never really cut Sony out of his life. If Michael's deal hadn't expired in 2002, he wouldn't have been able to sign with 2Seas since Sony would absolutely have sued him and that company for an eye-watering sum. On top of that, Michael had a deal set up for Neverland Records in late 2002 or so which also included Neverland Pictures. I remember having the actual contract which made reference to an external company called ToolBox, Inc, IIRC. If my memory serves, Michael didn't really live up to his side of the deal and still pocketed a few million dollars. This was to be a multimedia company. Contract terminated by mutual agreement June 2005, so he'd been out of his Sony deal for 2.5 years by that point. I don't think MJ made many good business decisions in his last decade.
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Post by aazzaabb on Jul 15, 2023 13:13:32 GMT
I think what’s sad is that their primary -and only objective only- is to make as much money as possible at all costs. Selling a portion of MJ’s catalog to Sony is quite sad since he wanted out from that label and when he died there was a list of potential record labels next to his bed that he was considering for releasing music with moving forward and Sony was not on that list. The estate will happily sell Sony a portion of the catalog for hundreds of millions of dollars but won’t work in tandem with Sony to produce Sign “O” The Times Deluxe level products. It’s a sad indictment of a certain ego at play. Yes, The Ultimate Collection was the last decent release which funnily enough was conceived/thrown together to finish out MJ’s contractual obligations. Michael's contract with Sony expired in, IIRC, December 2002 which makes Number Ones the last official release of that contract. After that, Michael continued a single project at a time relationship with Sony once Mottola left. TUC was one of those as was KOP. Indeed, Sony helped MJ restructure his finances in 2006 so he never really cut Sony out of his life. If Michael's deal hadn't expired in 2002, he wouldn't have been able to sign with 2Seas since Sony would absolutely have sued him and that company for an eye-watering sum. On top of that, Michael had a deal set up for Neverland Records in late 2002 or so which also included Neverland Pictures. I remember having the actual contract which made reference to an external company called ToolBox, Inc, IIRC. If my memory serves, Michael didn't really live up to his side of the deal and still pocketed a few million dollars. This was to be a multimedia company. I don't think MJ made many good business decisions in his last decade. Yes, I’m sure you’re right in what you say but I just don’t believe that MJ saw himself locked into Sony for the rest of his life and in death. I feel that they were beneficial to one another at a certain point and I think it benefited Sony more than MJ in that he needed a source of income at a certain point, especially given what Invincible cost and the fact MJ didn’t tour. MJ mentioned he owed Sony an album during his protest and that he’d just give them a boxset. I always understood The Ultimate Collection to be that boxset? Given there’s an albums worth of unreleased tracks on it? I agree MJ didn’t make good business decisions in his last decade but wasn’t he also stuck in that he was in debt to Sony and that they had an advantage over him in that his ATV catalog was up for grabs as collateral? Also, from my understanding Thriller25 was a way for MJ to free up some cash and a test the waters release. I mean sure MJ worked with Sony but that doesn’t necessarily mean he like them or even wanted to be there. And possibly something else for consideration, MJ was perceived by the media as a washed up has been in the 2000’s and one does have to wonder what other record label would have been willing to give him any sort of record deal that would benefit him in the same way or more than Sony? When you consider the MSG Anniversary shows and the fallout from Invincible, the Bashir interview/baby dangling, the allegations and trial etc. Ultimately it’s neither here nor there I guess. My main gripe is that the estate just haven’t really included long term fans/collectors in a way they really could have. There does seem to be a focus on franchising MJ towards the general public and one does begin to feel the hardcore fans have become a bit of a hindrance to them.
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Post by aazzaabb on Jul 15, 2023 13:16:59 GMT
🤩 Same. I still have my VHS and also got the DVD eventually. Number Ones was weak by comparison and The One -although I like the content- there just wasn’t enough bloody content! It clocked in all of 30 minutes! The version that aired on TV was longer and included a section about The Way You Make Me Feel. I bought The One on day of release, watched it and took it back to HMV for a refund on the same day. That's how disappointed I was with it.... Don’t blame you. I mean to produce and sell a dvd that’s 30 minutes in length is a little obscene. 🤦🏻♂️
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Post by pg13 on Jul 15, 2023 14:42:45 GMT
Michael's contract with Sony expired in, IIRC, December 2002 which makes Number Ones the last official release of that contract. After that, Michael continued a single project at a time relationship with Sony once Mottola left. TUC was one of those as was KOP. Indeed, Sony helped MJ restructure his finances in 2006 so he never really cut Sony out of his life. If Michael's deal hadn't expired in 2002, he wouldn't have been able to sign with 2Seas since Sony would absolutely have sued him and that company for an eye-watering sum. On top of that, Michael had a deal set up for Neverland Records in late 2002 or so which also included Neverland Pictures. I remember having the actual contract which made reference to an external company called ToolBox, Inc, IIRC. If my memory serves, Michael didn't really live up to his side of the deal and still pocketed a few million dollars. This was to be a multimedia company. I don't think MJ made many good business decisions in his last decade. Yes, I’m sure you’re right in what you say but I just don’t believe that MJ saw himself locked into Sony for the rest of his life and in death. I feel that they were beneficial to one another at a certain point and I think it benefited Sony more than MJ in that he needed a source of income at a certain point, especially given what Invincible cost and the fact MJ didn’t tour. MJ mentioned he owed Sony an album during his protest and that he’d just give them a boxset. I always understood The Ultimate Collection to be that boxset? Given there’s an albums worth of unreleased tracks on it? I agree MJ didn’t make good business decisions in his last decade but wasn’t he also stuck in that he was in debt to Sony and that they had an advantage over him in that his ATV catalog was up for grabs as collateral? Also, from my understanding Thriller25 was a way for MJ to free up some cash and a test the waters release. I mean sure MJ worked with Sony but that doesn’t necessarily mean he like them or even wanted to be there. And possibly something else for consideration, MJ was perceived by the media as a washed up has been in the 2000’s and one does have to wonder what other record label would have been willing to give him any sort of record deal that would benefit him in the same way or more than Sony? When you consider the MSG Anniversary shows and the fallout from Invincible, the Bashir interview/baby dangling, the allegations and trial etc. Ultimately it’s neither here nor there I guess. My main gripe is that the estate just haven’t really included long term fans/collectors in a way they really could have. There does seem to be a focus on franchising MJ towards the general public and one does begin to feel the hardcore fans have become a bit of a hindrance to them. Sure, Michael didn't lock himself into any new deal with Sony Music which is why he did single project deals such as TUC. A popular misconception from the fans is that TUC ended the deal with Sony, but the truth was that deal ended nearly two years previously. Number Ones was the final release and it wasn't actually expected to become the success it became by either Sony or MJ. In fact, the success of it was significant to MJ agreeing to single project deals with Sony - TUC, KOP, Essential, etc. Yet none of those came close to Number Ones. Michael did say a boxset was what he owed which became Number Ones. And, crucially, he also said he would just give them any two old songs. This was June 2002. Anyway, that explains why Break Of Dawn and One More Chance are on Number Ones. IIRC, Michael had some offers from various labels in 2002 to early 2003. One of those was a potential offer from Universal Music whose executive said this in 2002: www.forbes.com/forbes/2002/0812/054.html?sh=77480d49ffcfMichael's contract hadn't yet expired at time of publication, but it would soon come in December 2002. I forget the exact date. I'm sure some of these offers went away later on in 2003, almost certainly in 2004 which I'm certain led to Michael's single project deal with Sony for TUC to materialise. Indeed, Michael kept doing those single deals with them. In the meantime, his relationship with Sony's Japanese owners was still good and improved further once Mottola left Sony USA. By this time, Michael was happy enough to negotiate with Sony to help him restructure. The Japanese owners wanted Michael to be financially strong again. While other offers slowly disappeared throughout 2004, Sony Japan stuck with him as they did in 1993. But Mj never tied himself into another long term contract again. Indeed, MJ signed a contract for films because he appeared to be planning a life without the music industry in terms of pop albums. He signed a contract committing to directing films, writing screenplays, doing the score, etc. www.reuters.com/article/us-jackson-sb-idUSTRE56D6M220090722But he himself wasn't as anti-Sony as a subset of fans have since remained. He was rather open, actually. As for the Estate, I agree but would frame it as they've done very little for the European, Asian and South American fanbases. Its all very North America centric.
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Post by aazzaabb on Jul 15, 2023 16:14:22 GMT
Sure, Michael didn't lock himself into any new deal with Sony Music which is why he did single project deals such as TUC. A popular misconception from the fans is that TUC ended the deal with Sony, but the truth was that deal ended nearly two years previously. Number Ones was the final release and it wasn't actually expected to become the success it became by either Sony or MJ. In fact, the success of it was significant to MJ agreeing to single project deals with Sony - TUC, KOP, Essential, etc. Yet none of those came close to Number Ones. Michael did say a boxset was what he owed which became Number Ones. And, crucially, he also said he would just give them any two old songs. This was June 2002. Anyway, that explains why Break Of Dawn and One More Chance are on Number Ones. IIRC, Michael had some offers from various labels in 2002 to early 2003. One of those was a potential offer from Universal Music whose executive said this in 2002: www.forbes.com/forbes/2002/0812/054.html?sh=77480d49ffcfMichael's contract hadn't yet expired at time of publication, but it would soon come in December 2002. I forget the exact date. I'm sure some of these offers went away later on in 2003, almost certainly in 2004 which I'm certain led to Michael's single project deal with Sony for TUC to materialise. Indeed, Michael kept doing those single deals with them. In the meantime, his relationship with Sony's Japanese owners was still good and improved further once Mottola left Sony USA. By this time, Michael was happy enough to negotiate with Sony to help him restructure. The Japanese owners wanted Michael to be financially strong again. While other offers slowly disappeared throughout 2004, Sony Japan stuck with him as they did in 1993. But Mj never tied himself into another long term contract again. Indeed, MJ signed a contract for films because he appeared to be planning a life without the music industry in terms of pop albums. He signed a contract committing to directing films, writing screenplays, doing the score, etc. www.reuters.com/article/us-jackson-sb-idUSTRE56D6M220090722But he himself wasn't as anti-Sony as a subset of fans have since remained. He was rather open, actually. As for the Estate, I agree but would frame it as they've done very little for the European, Asian and South American fanbases. Its all very North America centric. I always fall into the trap of thinking TUC is what ended the deal. No matter how many times I hear otherwise. My brain keeps playing the same trick on me! 🤦🏻♂️ Okay, I’m going to take what you’re saying as gospel now as I keep hearing this whole “MJ hated Sony” thing being bandied around in this sort of casual way as though it was fact. I won’t name names but let’s just say I was listening to a certain podcast recently and this opinion seems to be projected onto MJ as though it was unequivocal fact. There’s this story that MJ wanted a pair of headphones and requested a bodyguard or someone go buy him some headphones and the guy brought MJ back a pair of Sony headphones and MJ went absolutely nuts. Any truth in this? My original understanding was that when Mottola left things improved between MJ and Sony. Im delighted Number Ones was the success it was. Although not a perfect release it actually made a friend of mine an MJ fan in 2004. He bought the Number Ones cd and dvd as a 2 for 1 deal in JD Hifi in Australia and absolutely loved it. So I think you’ve finally clarified as to why Break of Dawn was included; it counted as one of the 2 new/old tracks that contributed towards Sony’s request re MJ’s comment “I’ll just give them any two old songs!” One More Chance being the other one as you say. I wonder if MJ had went elsewhere to Universal would it have actually worked? A lot of major artists leave their long-standing record labels only for things to go a bit meh. In a weird way I’ve always liked the idea of Sony Japan. It’s something that’s always excited me. I just feel there’s a world of possibilities with Japan in general I guess. I’ve always admired how Sony Japan seemed to go the extra mile for MJ since the Bad era in 87. They’ve always done lovely promotional releases when MJ released an album and toured. Sure they do it for all their major artists I guess but they always seemed extremely into MJ being on Sony Japan. They seemed very grateful and Japan’s love for MJ in general never wavered. Even when he went back after the 2005 trial he was treated like a king and adored there. They’ve done a tone more releases than America and Europe with what little material made available over the years. The estate, sure, Its all very North America centric and they don’t seem all that interested in anything past the Quincy Jones albums. I mean we still don’t even have Ghosts reissued on Blu-ray. Most fans have never even owned it as the VHS came in a boxset. I really fail to understand why they can’t approve a legacy label and employ someone in the know who’s an actual hardcore lifelong fan to present them with various projects and ideas to keep MJ’s hardcore fanbase excited and engaged. We have so much to deal with every day in this fandom and spend half our lives fighting for MJ’s validation that it would be nice to feel that the estate cared and wanted to give back. And when they do release something -Thriller40- you can really tell their hearts not in it by the fact the music isn’t mastered for release. Not to mention the font. I just don’t understand it at all.
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Post by respect77 on Jul 16, 2023 8:02:13 GMT
The last truly carefree era of being an MJ fan was Dangerous era (before the allegations), but HIStory era was still a great era to me. The way he came back artistically... Wow!
But the most fun of being a fan was Bad/Dangerous era for me. The music, the tours, the series of epic music videos etc.
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