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Post by MattyJam on Oct 1, 2023 10:21:20 GMT
I think much of what we saw in the documentary was performative on MJs part. From the shopping trip scene, admitting to carrying Paris home covered in placenta, to the "I'm Peter Pan in my heart" remark... I think he was deliberately hamming it up for the cameras. He was the original troll while Russg was still in nappies. There's absolutely no way MJ didn't know this stuff was going to raise an eyebrow or two. Those things really weren't the things most people were bothered by or focusing on. Michael actually said on camera that he HAS slept in the same bed with children. Just not the Arvizos. THAT is what most people focused on and were bothered by. The scene where MJ and Gavin held hands bothered people too. Those two scenes combined did MJ a lot more damage than anything like the shopping stunt, the Peter Pan thing or the placenta one. It really allowed so many to say "See! If that doesn't mean he's not a paedophile...". Of course, that documentary was the door opener to investigations into that nature. The way he was feeding Blanket and the dangling thing was another one that allowed many to say "See! I always said it wasn't safe to allow him around kids!". The stunts without those would have simply confirmed MJ as a harmless eccentric. Unfortunately, Michael signed away his own editorial control which would have avoided the programme's presentation. And his own behaviour allowed a trap to be set for a Bashir ratings winner. That thing ran for a long time. Michael simply was NOT razor sharp or on top of his game at that point. Whilst it's true those things weren't the major source of controversy, they certainly wouldn't have helped paint a sympathetic picture of MJ and helped make the more serious accusations all the more believable. To Bashir, it was a dream come true, the biggest star on the planet, a self-confessed eccentric, more than happy to ham it up for the cameras, giving you complete editorial control at a time in his life when he was already vulnerable to innuendo. It was all too easy for Bashir to take all those elements and paint MJ in the worst possible light. Of course, nobody held a gun to MJs head or made him say or do the things he did, but I definitely feel he was steered in a certain direction by Bashir, to cause maximum controversy. To MJ, kids were his achilles heel, his weak spot, Bashir knew that and played on it.
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Post by electriceyes on Oct 1, 2023 10:25:24 GMT
I also think Bashir choreographed a lot of what we saw to make MJ look bad. Wasn't the whole scene where Gavin and MJ are holding hands Bashir's idea? I swear I remember reading that somewhere. I've read this too. Anyone know the source?
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Post by pg13 on Oct 1, 2023 10:38:52 GMT
Those things really weren't the things most people were bothered by or focusing on. Michael actually said on camera that he HAS slept in the same bed with children. Just not the Arvizos. THAT is what most people focused on and were bothered by. The scene where MJ and Gavin held hands bothered people too. Those two scenes combined did MJ a lot more damage than anything like the shopping stunt, the Peter Pan thing or the placenta one. It really allowed so many to say "See! If that doesn't mean he's not a paedophile...". Of course, that documentary was the door opener to investigations into that nature. The way he was feeding Blanket and the dangling thing was another one that allowed many to say "See! I always said it wasn't safe to allow him around kids!". The stunts without those would have simply confirmed MJ as a harmless eccentric. Unfortunately, Michael signed away his own editorial control which would have avoided the programme's presentation. And his own behaviour allowed a trap to be set for a Bashir ratings winner. That thing ran for a long time. Michael simply was NOT razor sharp or on top of his game at that point. Whilst it's true those things weren't the major source of controversy, they certainly wouldn't have helped paint a sympathetic picture of MJ and helped make the more serious accusations all the more believable. To Bashir, it was a dream come true, the biggest star on the planet, a self-confessed eccentric, more than happy to ham it up for the cameras, giving you complete editorial control at a time in his life when he was already vulnerable to innuendo. It was all too easy for Bashir to take all those elements and paint MJ in the worst possible light. Of course, nobody held a gun to MJs head or made him say or do the things he did, but I definitely feel he was steered in a certain direction by Bashir, to cause maximum controversy. To MJ, kids were his achilles heel, his weak spot, Bashir knew that and played on it. All the MORE reason for MJ to do what he's always done - stick to his guns by retaining editorial control. He'd known since 1993 that his detractors were always looking to use the issue of kids against him. That they would be looking to portray him as guilty in the FIRST instance. Hell, just two years before he'd released a song on Invincible about the press! The year before he'd spoken about how the media portrayed him as a "freak" following Thriller. This was definitely not a man who was clueless about the press. It is inexplicable that he gave Bashir so much access and control. I don't think it was a case of having Yes Men around him - they were unsure about it to begin with. Michael, on the other hand, was convinced Bashir could do for him what he'd done for Diana. Get the public to sympathise with him. MJ certainly had his battles with drugs in 2002 - he'd had an implant put in to help him. But I don't think this fully explains it. My feeling is MJ was having a midlife crisis around that time. His Oxford Speech gave a hint of it - his self-esteem really wasn't good. Quite likely he agreed to LWMJ with Bashir because Michael was desperate to feel loved again. Especially now he was no longer as young. And Bashir basically promised him that is what the doco would deliver. My impression is Michael was like a desperate, frantic man clinging onto a life raft. Doesn't end well.
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Post by SmoothGangsta on Oct 1, 2023 10:56:12 GMT
Yes
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Post by Russg on Oct 1, 2023 11:11:09 GMT
I do think MJ was on something for some of the filming, which didn't help matters.
He looked sexy asf in that purple shirt at the end though. Mmmm-mmm.
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Post by pg13 on Oct 1, 2023 11:13:42 GMT
I keep reading it was because he did wonder with Princess Diana and he was expecting the same, but... her interview was all about her relationships with the royals and affairs no? What he was expecting and thinking while it was all being recorded and filmed I will never for the life of me understand. I also think that a lot of fans get confused by what the "backstabbing" was. The backstabbing was Bashir's critical and two faced commentary added during post production. Everything else was on MJ. Unfortunately you are bang on 100%. The fact is, any career-furthering journalist would've done the same as Bashir. No, it doesn't make it right, but it's just a fact. The fact that nobody around MJ at the time tried to intervene goes to show how surrounded he was by enablers and sycophants. A lifetime of being surrounded by these people could warp even the most grounded persons perception of reality and I think the older MJ got, the more he retreated into his fantasy land where anything he said went. That really isn't how it happened. British PR agent Mark Borkowski was "tasked by Jackson’s people to think of ways of rehabilitating him in the wake of the Jordan Chandler scandal." He saw straight through Bashir. So, Bashir then went to Uri Geller as he was getting nowhere with MJ's UK based staff. Geller was taken in by Bashir's Princess Diana letter as well as Martin's honeyed words. It was Geller who recommended Bashir to MJ and, unfortunately, MJ listened to Uri. When Mark Borkowski heard about the meeting, he said: MJ agreed to meet Bashir through Geller. MJ and MB bonded over Princess Diana and religion. Following that, MJ agreed to do it with none of his usual safeguards in place.
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Post by Russg on Oct 1, 2023 11:19:38 GMT
Mother may I? 🤤😈
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Post by pg13 on Oct 1, 2023 12:22:17 GMT
Mark Barkowski has his own website and there's an interesting article on it that may have some insights for this thread. Especially his closing paragraphs. www.markborkowski.co.uk/from-2001-i-was-jackos-pr-minder/It does seem there was tension between MJ's UK and USA teams. Wouldn't be a surprise the US one thought the world revolved around the United States. Indeed, Michael's US team weren't as good as his UK or European teams from Dangerous onwards.
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Post by pg13 on Oct 1, 2023 12:36:42 GMT
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Post by aazzaabb on Oct 1, 2023 13:43:26 GMT
For what it’s worth I’ve been into the Regis Gallery -where MJ does his shopping spree in the doc- a ton of times and all of the staff had nothing but nice things to say about him. One lady showed me some of her photos with him and said he was an absolute sweetheart. She said he was a hundred percent playing up to the camera in Bashir doc. Which is pretty obvious anyway.
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Post by pg13 on Oct 1, 2023 14:10:37 GMT
For what it’s worth I’ve been into the Regis Gallery -where MJ does his shopping spree in the doc- a ton of times and all of the staff had nothing but nice things to say about him. One lady showed me some of her photos with him and said he was an absolute sweetheart. She said he was a hundred percent playing up to the camera in Bashir doc. Which is pretty obvious anyway. MJ had the urns and so on he bought sent back the next day or so afterwards. Think I might have read an article years ago where either the owner or staff member said that.
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Post by butterflies2 on Oct 1, 2023 14:13:49 GMT
I think mj should have stuck to music instead of trying too hard for people to understand him, though I understand why he wanted the validation too. Just my opinion
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Post by aazzaabb on Oct 1, 2023 14:26:25 GMT
For what it’s worth I’ve been into the Regis Gallery -where MJ does his shopping spree in the doc- a ton of times and all of the staff had nothing but nice things to say about him. One lady showed me some of her photos with him and said he was an absolute sweetheart. She said he was a hundred percent playing up to the camera in Bashir doc. Which is pretty obvious anyway. MJ had the urns and so on he bought sent back the next day or so afterwards. Think I might have read an article years ago where either the owner or staff member said that. Ha! How did you know that? I didn’t realise that was common knowledge? In fact the lady told me he didn’t actually buy anything that you see in the documentary lol. I wasn’t going to mention that because it’s a bit embarrassing but anyway I suppose he just wanted give a certain impression, I don’t know lol. I suppose he was a bit of a kid in certain ways. 😂
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Post by elusivemoonwalker on Oct 1, 2023 14:38:49 GMT
Saying mj would have the final say on production. Saying the kids wouldnt be in it.Fake signatures on contracts. Paying geller to talk mj into doing the doc. Dave dave was there when the gavin scene was filmed. Bashir asked mj to meet someone he had helped. Hence gavin been there. Of course gavin was picked for the shot instead of dave. Bashir asked them to hold hands. Thankfully bashirs career is over after what came out inregards to the diana interview and how documents were forged to get her to agree to it . Then you had the babes in the wood murders ontop of that. Theres that interview clip of bashir talking after 09 where he admits he set mj up. Never watched it myself though
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Post by butterflies2 on Oct 1, 2023 14:41:11 GMT
I didn’t know bashir asked them to hold hands, that’s messed up since he was making something out of it after
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