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Post by butterflies2 on Nov 30, 2023 23:35:59 GMT
Which one do you like better and why?
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Post by butterflies2 on Jan 14, 2024 22:50:34 GMT
Aw come on, I want to see where this goes!
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Post by SoCav on Jan 15, 2024 8:34:52 GMT
I Can't Help It by a long shot.
Butterflies is okay, but quite an uninteresting and fairly standard r&b track. I also think the vocal performance is a tad overrated by fans. It's certainly good, but does not have the effortless charm of I Can't Help It. It's also another instance on Invincible where MJ basically mirrors the vocal on the writer's demo very closely (btw, I might actually prefer the demo vocals over MJ's, which might be the only instance where that's the case). And when I listen to the song, I also hear that: it feels generic, like he didn't add his own special magic to it.
What also contributes to this, something which plagues a lot of MJ's post-BotDF material, is that he started doing background vocals with other singers. His own harmonies are the best, it just gives it an instantly more generic sound when he merges them with another singer's.
As for I Can't Help It: what's there to say, really? A beautiful dreamy song, probably the jazziest MJ has done. The ad-libs after each chorus are perfection. A top 20 MJ track for me.
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Post by aazzaabb on Jan 15, 2024 13:59:44 GMT
I Can't Help It by a long shot. Butterflies is okay, but quite an uninteresting and fairly standard r&b track. I also think the vocal performance is a tad overrated by fans. It's certainly good, but does not have the effortless charm of I Can't Help It. It's also another instance on Invincible where MJ basically mirrors the vocal on the writer's demo very closely (btw, I might actually prefer the demo vocals over MJ's, which might be the only instance where that's the case). And when I listen to the song, I also hear that: it feels generic, like he didn't add his own special magic to it. What also contributes to this, something which plagues a lot of MJ's post-BotDF material, is that he started doing background vocals with other singers. His own harmonies are the best, it just gives it an instantly more generic sound when he merges them with another singer's. As for I Can't Help It: what's there to say, really? A beautiful dreamy song, probably the jazziest MJ has done. The ad-libs after each chorus are perfection. A top 20 MJ track for me. What SoCav said!
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Post by electriceyes on Jan 15, 2024 15:47:35 GMT
Butterflies and it's not even close.
The only people voting for ICHI are the "older=better" brigade.
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Post by aazzaabb on Jan 15, 2024 16:35:13 GMT
In truth I could probably go either way on it, but SoCav makes a compelling argument. I also grew up with the Off The Wall album and I think it’s a solid record. To be fair I am also a fan of J5/Jackson’s albums as well.
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Post by aazzaabb on Jan 15, 2024 16:40:01 GMT
Actually, here’s what I said about Butterflies in my recent review of Invincible. I think a 7 out of 10 is decent score.
“A really good jazzy throwback to Off The Wall/Thriller. I like the way it builds musically and it’s a really decent album track. It’s not one I particularly reach for on its own, but I always enjoy it when I hear it within the context of the album. 7/10”
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Post by butterflies2 on Jan 16, 2024 0:12:08 GMT
I think Butterflies is top 5 for me from Invincible, but I didn’t like it much when I heard it for the first time cause people were going on about it online before the release and I wanted to wait and surprise myself, but it didn’t happen
I do wish it went to number 1 on the r&b chart, it made it to #2 cause ashantis generic r&b that all sounded the same beat it then
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Post by SoCav on Jan 16, 2024 7:39:59 GMT
I think Butterflies is top 5 for me from Invincible, but I didn’t like it much when I heard it for the first time cause people were going on about it online before the release and I wanted to wait and surprise myself, but it didn’t happen I do wish it went to number 1 on the r&b chart, it made it to #2 cause ashantis generic r&b that all sounded the same beat it then I'd figured it would be top 5 all time for you given your username!
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Post by Michaels Lover on Jan 16, 2024 11:10:42 GMT
Butterflies definitely
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Post by MattyJam on Jan 17, 2024 18:42:36 GMT
I Can't Help It by a long shot. Butterflies is okay, but quite an uninteresting and fairly standard r&b track. I also think the vocal performance is a tad overrated by fans. It's certainly good, but does not have the effortless charm of I Can't Help It. It's also another instance on Invincible where MJ basically mirrors the vocal on the writer's demo very closely (btw, I might actually prefer the demo vocals over MJ's, which might be the only instance where that's the case). And when I listen to the song, I also hear that: it feels generic, like he didn't add his own special magic to it. What also contributes to this, something which plagues a lot of MJ's post-BotDF material, is that he started doing background vocals with other singers. His own harmonies are the best, it just gives it an instantly more generic sound when he merges them with another singer's. As for I Can't Help It: what's there to say, really? A beautiful dreamy song, probably the jazziest MJ has done. The ad-libs after each chorus are perfection. A top 20 MJ track for me. Y'see, when I hear the word "generic" bandied around, it's almost always someone describing an R&B song. All that says to me is that these people are not fans of R&B music. Invincible is no more "generic R&B" than Off The Wall is "generic disco" or Dangerous "generic new-jack-swing". I find it to be a very lazy word to describe music. That said, I Can't Help It is one of my favourites on OTW and a better song than Butterflies imo.
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Post by SoCav on Jan 17, 2024 19:02:16 GMT
I Can't Help It by a long shot. Butterflies is okay, but quite an uninteresting and fairly standard r&b track. I also think the vocal performance is a tad overrated by fans. It's certainly good, but does not have the effortless charm of I Can't Help It. It's also another instance on Invincible where MJ basically mirrors the vocal on the writer's demo very closely (btw, I might actually prefer the demo vocals over MJ's, which might be the only instance where that's the case). And when I listen to the song, I also hear that: it feels generic, like he didn't add his own special magic to it. What also contributes to this, something which plagues a lot of MJ's post-BotDF material, is that he started doing background vocals with other singers. His own harmonies are the best, it just gives it an instantly more generic sound when he merges them with another singer's. As for I Can't Help It: what's there to say, really? A beautiful dreamy song, probably the jazziest MJ has done. The ad-libs after each chorus are perfection. A top 20 MJ track for me. Y'see, when I hear the word "generic" bandied around, it's almost always someone describing an R&B song. All that says to me is that these people are not fans of R&B music. Invincible is no more "generic R&B" than Off The Wall is "generic disco" or Dangerous "generic new-jack-swing". I find it to be a very lazy word to describe music. That said, I Can't Help It is one of my favourites on OTW and a better song than Butterflies imo. For the record, I love a lot of 70s r&b, and like plenty of 80s and 90s r&b too. What I mean by 'generic' is simply that there's nothing that makes it sound uniquely MJ, or makes it stand out in some other way (e.g. incredible songwriting). MJ happens to be singing Butterflies, but it could have been any other r&b artist from that time too (as evidenced by the fact that his version sounds extremely similar to the demo). I don't feel that way about the disco-funk tracks on Off The Wall or the New Jack Swing songs on Dangerous. Those songs are, in my opinion, of much higher quality, and MJ completely makes them his own.
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Post by butterflies2 on Jan 17, 2024 20:25:21 GMT
Y'see, when I hear the word "generic" bandied around, it's almost always someone describing an R&B song. All that says to me is that these people are not fans of R&B music. Invincible is no more "generic R&B" than Off The Wall is "generic disco" or Dangerous "generic new-jack-swing". I find it to be a very lazy word to describe music. That said, I Can't Help It is one of my favourites on OTW and a better song than Butterflies imo. For the record, I love a lot of 70s r&b, and like plenty of 80s and 90s r&b too. What I mean by 'generic' is simply that there's nothing that makes it sound uniquely MJ, or makes it stand out in some other way (e.g. incredible songwriting). MJ happens to be singing Butterflies, but it could have been any other r&b artist from that time too (as evidenced by the fact that his version sounds extremely similar to the demo). I don't feel that way about the disco-funk tracks on Off The Wall or the New Jack Swing songs on Dangerous. Those songs are, in my opinion, of much higher quality, and MJ completely makes them his own. I know what you mean, musiq soulchild could have easily done the song too. Or even a female artist like Jill Scott or any other person touching on the neo-soul genre. Still a good song to me though
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Post by theunknownmonster on Jan 19, 2024 18:53:28 GMT
Butterflies
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