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Post by respect77 on Mar 31, 2018 18:05:24 GMT
Brooke Shields did support him both in 1993 and 2005.
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Post by Snow White on Mar 31, 2018 18:08:40 GMT
Comparing the poignant statement Obama did when Robin Williams died with Michael's passing, it was disappointing and it came across to me as insensitive. The impact Williams had in the entertainment was nowhere near as MJ. If the Civil Rights movement hadn't happened and MJ hadn't become the most powerful and influential African American superstar who broke the cultural, geographical and racial barriers around the world, Obama wouldn't have had a chance to be president. Michael was in a way a civil rights activist/leader.
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Post by Vega on Mar 31, 2018 18:28:04 GMT
I imagine that Measerau was talking about a lot of Michael's friends from the 80s, like Brooke Shields, who Michael may have thought were friends but were nothing more than acquaintances, keen to be around him when he was the biggest celebrity in the world. As to Obama, and this goes a bit deeper, he was always keen to not be seen as the "Black President", but rather as the "President". This can be seen when he was running in 2008, and there were merits and drawbacks to it. It was also only four years removed from the 2005 trial, and most people believed he was guilty. Possibly Brooke Shields, yeah. Mesereau sounded like there were others too. Not sure what Brooke Shields was supposed to say on stand at the trial though, but maybe! Did most people in the US really think he was guilty? I always thought it was kind of a 'split vote' or something in public. Can you say something more about how and why you have that impression? Gallup, which is one of the oldest and most respected polling firms in the US, did a poll in April of 2005 in which they asked "Do you personally believe the charges that Michael Jackson sexually abused a boy are... ?" The poll showed "that 70% of Americans believe the charges against Jackson are true -- including 12% who say "definitely" and 58% who say "probably" true. In two previous surveys taken in February this year, 69% and 75% indicated the charges were true, little different from current opinion". Back to Measerau, another would possibly be Quincy Jones.
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Post by stillborn on Mar 31, 2018 20:08:28 GMT
Gallup, which is one of the oldest and most respected polling firms in the US, did a poll in April of 2005 in which they asked "Do you personally believe the charges that Michael Jackson sexually abused a boy are... ?" The poll showed "that 70% of Americans believe the charges against Jackson are true -- including 12% who say "definitely" and 58% who say "probably" true. In two previous surveys taken in February this year, 69% and 75% indicated the charges were true, little different from current opinion". Back to Measerau, another would possibly be Quincy Jones. Yes, right. I heard about that poll. I wonder if the perception has changed or if it is the same today? Just figured you might have anecdotal stories or impressions from that time. Thats why I asked! I don't know how it was treated in general. Quincy is an interesting candidate, but in his case... hasn't his post-death comments been rather luke-warm as well? Tom Mesereau seemed to refer to famous people or friends who was all willing to give rosy speeches and praise after he died in 2009 but wouldn't talk to them when Jackson needed support at the trial in 2005. Perhaps I can find the direct quote he said that. What about Oprah? She did a "Oprah Remembers Michael Jackson" special, but people have noted she has implied she thought Michael was guilty at the time. She was not however a close friend. I'm not sure Tom Mesereau or Michael would have reached out to her at the trial or for what purpose. Question: Did you ever consider going to either the memorial service or the funeral? Oprah: No I did not consider going to the memorial service or the funeral, because I did not consider myself to be a friend of his. I didn't want to be one of those people who showed up just because its Michael Jackson, so no I didn't because I was not a friend, I was someone who had interviewed him, and at the time really had a lot of compassion for him, and --. Question: -- and these feelings about him changed over the years? Oprah: The feelings didn't change. In terms of my sense of compassion for him. What I felt was a sense of sadness. I never knew what the truth was. As none of us will ever know what the truth was. But anytime anybody has allegations of child abuse against them that cause me to take a pause.
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Post by Vega on Mar 31, 2018 20:31:07 GMT
Gallup, which is one of the oldest and most respected polling firms in the US, did a poll in April of 2005 in which they asked "Do you personally believe the charges that Michael Jackson sexually abused a boy are... ?" The poll showed "that 70% of Americans believe the charges against Jackson are true -- including 12% who say "definitely" and 58% who say "probably" true. In two previous surveys taken in February this year, 69% and 75% indicated the charges were true, little different from current opinion". Back to Measerau, another would possibly be Quincy Jones. Yes, right. I heard about that poll. I wonder if the perception has changed or if it is the same today? Just figured you might have anecdotal stories or impressions from that time. Thats why I asked! I don't know how it was treated in general. . I'm sure it's changed a fair amount - people are at least more willing to focus on his music rather than his personal life. The internet has also served as a good tool to understand the trial/accusations in a way that the media wasn't at the time (and indeed was the only source). As for personal anecdotes, well, Michael Jackson was a punchline for quite a while, and it just got worse afterwords. At best he wasn't taken seriously, and at worst he was seen as a very dangerous kind of criminal.
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Post by stillborn on Apr 1, 2018 9:26:00 GMT
I'm sure it's changed a fair amount - people are at least more willing to focus on his music rather than his personal life. The internet has also served as a good tool to understand the trial/accusations in a way that the media wasn't at the time (and indeed was the only source). As for personal anecdotes, well, Michael Jackson was a punchline for quite a while, and it just got worse afterwords. At best he wasn't taken seriously, and at worst he was seen as a very dangerous kind of criminal. Right right. But you think things are seen differently today due to the internet and alternative sources?
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Post by MattyJam on Apr 1, 2018 9:33:12 GMT
I'm sure it's changed a fair amount - people are at least more willing to focus on his music rather than his personal life. The internet has also served as a good tool to understand the trial/accusations in a way that the media wasn't at the time (and indeed was the only source). As for personal anecdotes, well, Michael Jackson was a punchline for quite a while, and it just got worse afterwords. At best he wasn't taken seriously, and at worst he was seen as a very dangerous kind of criminal. Right right. But you think things are seen differently today due to the internet and alternative sources? stillborn - do you believe MJ was innocent?
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Post by stillborn on Apr 1, 2018 9:50:43 GMT
Right right. But you think things are seen differently today due to the internet and alternative sources? stillborn - do you believe MJ was innocent? I'd like to think so. Why do you ask?
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Post by HIStoric on Apr 1, 2018 9:54:49 GMT
I don't know if he even had a strong opinion on it either way. He just wanted to be on the fence and not get any criticism IMO, so it is a carefully crafted, "politically correct" statement, possibly advised by advisors. I mean if you don't have a strong opinion either way... doesn't it make sense to be on the fence rather than give a false opinion that sways either way? Certainly if I don't know much on a subject I don't tend to take a side and I feel like it's the right thing to do. Besides, he could be referencing the other difficulties Michael had in life, which aren't exactly uncommon knowledge. I made a post on famous people who supported Michael back on MJJC, I'll take a quick look for it now...
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Post by MattyJam on Apr 1, 2018 9:56:00 GMT
stillborn - do you believe MJ was innocent? I'd like to think so. Why do you ask? Just curious. Just so you know, this is a board for MJ fans who believe in his innocence. Feel free to discuss the allegations or any questions you may have relating to them, but we generally don't keep members who wish to discuss a belief in MJ being guilty, as there are other boards for that, and I want this place to be fan friendly and fun. I hope you understand and can respect that. Welcome to the board.
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Post by HIStoric on Apr 1, 2018 9:56:45 GMT
Here's a huge list I put together a year and a bit ago for a post on MJJC: Elizabeth Taylor:31 Aug 1993“You can imagine how he feels,” said actress Elizabeth Taylor. “How would you feel if you had these allegations against you?” The actress arrived in Singapore during the weekend to comfort Jackson and help him during his 35th birthday on Sunday. “He’s a very sensitive, very vulnerable, very shy person,” she said on the syndicated TV show, “A Current Affair.” “I believe totally that Michael will be vindicated.” 1 Sep 1993Considering Elizabeth Taylor’s precarious health, her insistence on joining Michael Jackson in Singapore was a bit foolhardy, but so typical of her 100 percent devotion to those she loves. Her doctors looked askance at the 20 hour flight to Asia, but Miz Liz would have thad to be physically restrained from going to her friend’s side. She declined to comment on Jackson’s legal troubles beyond declaring, “I am a friend of Michael Jackson’s… I love him like a son and I support him with all my heart.” Kurt CobainInterviewer: Story of the moment, the only thing we’re covering is this Michael Jackson thing, what do you think is happening? What do you think? Kurt: We have no right to even- Interviewer: Not saying you should speculate on his guilt or innocence but what do you think of the uproar or the- Kurt: I think it’s ridiculous. They need a story. The press needs a story. Doesn’t matter what the story is, it’s a story. Why don’t you ask Latoya, she’ll tell you. Interviewer: What do you think of LaToya? Kurt: How can LaToya pose naked with a snake and not have sexual relations with her sleazy Las Vegas husband? Kurt: So are the authorities calling Michael back to the states? Is he actually breaking a law right now? Interviewer: Not yet, because he hasn’t been charged with any criminally but he has a civil suit pending. Supposed to be here this weekend. Kurt: So he’s not jumping– Interviewer: He’s not a fugitive, not yet. Kurt: Well, so, what’s the big deal? He has a right to- Interviewer: Well, I think that they think he’s acting suspicious. Kurt: Speculation. Kurt: I just feel really sorry for him. Teddy Riley“I can only say for myself that it’s not true (the allegations) because I have met this little boy and he’s been with Michael along with my daughter, and I’ve never seen anything occur, such as something stupid like that. I think it’s a money thing.” Paul McCartney(Apparently) Rang Michael in 1993 to give his support. Also said in an interview: "Linda and I are parents, and it's clear to us that Michael is not that kind of person." Stevie Wonder"I don't believe the allegations," Wonder told USA Today. "It seems to me, it's almost like a witch hunt." Wonder added, "It's like people build people up to destroy them. It's very sad". Wonder said of his good friend Michael, "I'm there for him and I always will be." Quincy Jones"It's awful the way things have been exaggerated. He's been indicted before he's even had a chance to say anything." Frank DiLeoFrank Dileo: "I would trust my own children with him, and have - he lived in my house in Encino for seven months. There is no way that he did this. It's not in his nature." Bruce Swedien"I am mortified and disgusted by what has been reported with no evidence of anything untoward. Michael is one of the most decent people I've ever met in my life. These allegations are preposterous." Whitney Houston"You do not convict someone of a crime that you have no idea he committed. This is something that was alleged. It has not been proven that Michael has done this. I hate the media for doing it to him, I really do." Brooke ShieldsBrooke Shields issued a statement Friday supporting Jackson, a longtime friend. “I know Michael extremely well,” Shields said. “He is a person for whom I have the highest respect and whose decency is unquestionable… I cannot believe the allegations that have inflicted pain and heartache on one of the kindest people I know.” Maximilian SchellSent this letter to the Hollywood Reporter, paid for it to be printed on the back of every cover. NOV, 19 1993 TO: MICHAEL JACKSON (SOMEWHERE ON THIS PLANET) DEAR MICHAEL, I AM DEEPLY ASHAMED — FOR THE PRESS, FOR THE MEDIA, FOR THE WORLD – I don’t know you – we met only ONCE on one of those Award-Dinners (“ENTERTAINER of the DECADE”) – We shook hands – you were kind and polite – I don’t think you knew who I was – HOW SHOULD YOU? OUR WORLDS ARE TOO FAR APART – (I am more, “CLASSICAL” – minded -) but I looked into your eyes — THEY WERE KIND — You are a great artist and I admire you – my little daughter (she is 9½) LOVES YOU! DEEPLY – SHE EVEN WANTS TO MARRY YOU! (-“BUT HE NEVER CALLS ME!”) SHE IMITATES YOU ALL THE TIME – and quite well – WE ALL LOVE YOU I would like her more to listen to MOZART – but she loves YOU! AND I RESPECT HER TASTE! — THAT YOU SURVIVE THIS AVALANCHE OF DIRT THROWN AT YOU – I ADMIRE TREMENDOUSLY – THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU ARE! GOD BLESS YOU, Maximilian Schell P.S. “ONE CAN ONLY SEE GOOD WITH THE HEART – THE ESSENTIAL IS INVISIBLE FOR THE EYES” – (“THE LITTLE PRINCE”) In addition to:-Aaron Carter -Alicia Keys -Amy Winehouse -Barry Gibb -Britney Spears -Debbie Rowe -Carrie Fisher (read here) -Celine Dion -Chuck D -Cliff Richard -Dick Gregory -DMX -Donald Trump -Emmanuel Lewis -Gregory Peck -James Brown -Jermaine Dupri -Kelly Rowland -Liza Minnelli -LL Cool J -Macauley Culkin -Magic Johnson -Madonna -Nelly -Nicole Richie -Paul Townsend -Paula Cole -Prince (specifically banned negative discussion on his websites forums) -Queen Latifah -Rick James -Steve Harvey -Usher -Wade Robson (ugh).
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Post by stillborn on Apr 1, 2018 10:05:00 GMT
I'd like to think so. Why do you ask? Just curious. Just so you know, this is a board for MJ fans who believe in his innocence. Feel free to discuss the allegations or any questions you may have relating to them, but we generally don't keep members who wish to discuss a belief in MJ being guilty, as there are other boards for that, and I want this place to be fan friendly and fun. I hope you understand and can respect that. Welcome to the board. Thanks, MattyJam. Right, I wasn't really trying to debate what members here or myself thought, or the nature of the allegations themselves, I was just curious about the public perception and what other fans and friends have said about it because I've been curious. Been sort of new to it. If you still feel its bordering some kind line I won't be offended if you lock the thread. Thats all good. HIStoric, thats an amazing list! Thanks for contributing.
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Post by MattyJam on Apr 1, 2018 10:38:21 GMT
Just curious. Just so you know, this is a board for MJ fans who believe in his innocence. Feel free to discuss the allegations or any questions you may have relating to them, but we generally don't keep members who wish to discuss a belief in MJ being guilty, as there are other boards for that, and I want this place to be fan friendly and fun. I hope you understand and can respect that. Welcome to the board. Thanks, MattyJam. Right, I wasn't really trying to debate what members here or myself thought, or the nature of the allegations themselves, I was just curious about the public perception and what other fans and friends have said about it because I've been curious. Been sort of new to it. If you still feel its bordering some kind line I won't be offended if you lock the thread. Thats all good. HIStoric, thats an amazing list! Thanks for contributing. ^^ This thread is fine.
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Post by HIStoric on Apr 1, 2018 10:56:41 GMT
Yes, right. I heard about that poll. I wonder if the perception has changed or if it is the same today? Just figured you might have anecdotal stories or impressions from that time. Thats why I asked! I don't know how it was treated in general. . I'm sure it's changed a fair amount - people are at least more willing to focus on his music rather than his personal life. The internet has also served as a good tool to understand the trial/accusations in a way that the media wasn't at the time (and indeed was the only source). As for personal anecdotes, well, Michael Jackson was a punchline for quite a while, and it just got worse afterwords. At best he wasn't taken seriously, and at worst he was seen as a very dangerous kind of criminal. It's amazed how much it's changed since he died tbh. He was very much the punchline of jokes throughout the '00s, but it's honestly been years since I've heard someone make a Michael Jackson joke about plastic surgery or child molestation in real life. Most conversations I have about him with new people now, a lot of people are more understanding of what he been through, or at least sympathetic and in recognition that his life story was actually rather tragic - even if they themselves aren't fully aware of all the details, or even certain of what he went through. Online, of course I still see jokes about him, but I've noticed a shift over the years with more and more people defending him. Whenever a post about him goes big on Reddit, it's hard to not see this popular comment about how he was innocent be reposted over and over again, I think it's done a great deal for MJ on that website, a fairly big website mind you. I think it's only going to get better and better as time goes on and people forget the tabloid madness and instead remember the genius that really matters - his art.
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Post by respect77 on Apr 1, 2018 11:00:10 GMT
I don't know if he even had a strong opinion on it either way. He just wanted to be on the fence and not get any criticism IMO, so it is a carefully crafted, "politically correct" statement, possibly advised by advisors. I mean if you don't have a strong opinion either way... doesn't it make sense to be on the fence rather than give a false opinion that sways either way? It makes sense to be on the fence and no one said he should have given a "false opinion". He should just have left out that remark IMO. I am not saying that he should have put up a speech in MJ's defense. And yes, it can mean anything. But "I don't think we can ignore that, but its important for us to affirm what was best of him" does seem like he implies a "difficulty" that MJ was accused of doing and not something that he was a victim of (eg. difficulties like his father beating him). Or let's say he meant drugs. Then compare his comments about Robin Williams or Prince when they died. Full of respect. No mention of Williams' "difficulties" for example (addiction to cocain) or Prince also dying of drug overdose. No saying "well, we cannot ignore all the difficulties in Williams/Prince's private life but we should remember the best of him". Personally what Obama said of MJ left a bitter taste in my mouth and I think it was a cowardly "politically correct" statement to try to appease everyone - including those who disliked MJ. I think it also took a couple of days until he came out with a statement at all, whereas in Prince's or Williams' case he came out relatively quickly. I think in MJ's case he probably wasn't sure initially how people would react to his death and when he saw the global outpoor then he felt safe enough to make a comment. In case, he referred to the allegations. Fact is MJ was tried in court and found not guilty. If Obama has any respect for the American Justice System (and as a President he should) then he should have just left it unmentioned IMO.
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