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Post by HIStoric on Apr 1, 2018 11:22:42 GMT
I mean if you don't have a strong opinion either way... doesn't it make sense to be on the fence rather than give a false opinion that sways either way? It makes sense to be on the fence and no one said he should have given a "false opinion". He should just have left out that remark IMO. I am not saying that he should have put up a speech in MJ's defense. Just compare his comments about Robin Williams or Prince when they died. Full of respect. No mention of Williams' "difficulties" for example (addiction to cocain). I think the big difference with Robin Williams though is that his difficulties weren't exactly part of his whole identity as a celebrity (for lack of a better word). How many people knew that he had addiction to cocaine? It seems everyone focused more-so on his art as an actor, whereas with Michael Jackson, the focus had been more-so on his troubled private life for the past 15 years rather than his art as a musician. It completely overshadowed his work as a musician. I think if Obama said nothing about it, he still would've been asked anyway - just look at the above Oprah interview when the interviewer asks her if her feelings changed over the years. I also strongly get the feeling he was a much, much bigger fan of RW and Prince respectively. In the ideal world that wouldn't play a part - especially for someone as figurehead as Michael Jackson - but it probably did. I'm also not saying all of this is entirely fair but to me, this seems the reality of it all. I'm very curious to read what his private letter to The Jackson Family read though (don't think that was ever published - was it?).
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Post by respect77 on Apr 1, 2018 11:27:56 GMT
I don't know whose fan Obama personally was and whose wasn't (the Spotify playlist of Michelle Obama did contain an MJ song, and a surprising one at that, Unbreakable), but when he makes a comment as a president I don't think that should play a part. Also I don't think the tabloidish treatment MJ received in the last 15 years of his life should influence a presidential comment. There have been plenty of people who could make a more classy statement than Omaba did and I am sure those people were all aware of the tabloid crap too. Hell, Mike Huckabee, a conservative Republican, could made a more classy statement! There are a thousand ways one can word a statement and they don't have to come off the fence for that, but that doesn't mean they cannot avoid throwing shade.
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Post by Vega on Apr 1, 2018 11:36:47 GMT
I don't know whose fan Obama personally was and whose wasn't (the Spotify playlist of Michelle Obama did contain an MJ song, and a surprising one at that, Unbreakable), but when he makes a comment as a president I don't think that should play a part. Also I don't think the tabloidish treatment MJ received in the last 15 years of his life should influence a presidential comment. There have been plenty of people who could make a more classy statement than Omaba did and I am sure those people were aware of the tabloid crap too. I think you're ignoring the general climate in the U.S. after MJ's death. It was only 4 years removed from his trial for felony child molestation, a trial that as we all know was covered by a press with a lust for sensationalism and an intense loathing for the concept of innocent before proven guilty. No sane career politician, let alone Obama, one of the most successful and tactful pols out there, is going to out and out praise someone in Michael's position without touching on the elephant in the room. It's just considered "bad optics". I honestly doubt if Hillary Clinton or John McCain were in office in 2009 that any statement would have been made regarding MJ's death. It wasn't ideal, buy neither was Michael Jackson, who yes, had tragic elements in his life. We can't deny that.
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Post by respect77 on Apr 1, 2018 11:44:19 GMT
I don't know whose fan Obama personally was and whose wasn't (the Spotify playlist of Michelle Obama did contain an MJ song, and a surprising one at that, Unbreakable), but when he makes a comment as a president I don't think that should play a part. Also I don't think the tabloidish treatment MJ received in the last 15 years of his life should influence a presidential comment. There have been plenty of people who could make a more classy statement than Omaba did and I am sure those people were aware of the tabloid crap too. I think you're ignoring the general climate in the U.S. after MJ's death. It was only 4 years removed from his trial for felony child molestation, a trial that as we all know was covered by a press with a lust for sensationalism and an intense loathing for the concept of innocent before proven guilty. No sane career politician, let alone Obama, one of the most successful and tactful pols out there, is going to praise someone in Michael's position. It's just considered "bad optics". I honestly doubt if Hillary Clinton or John McCain were in office in 2009 that any statement would have been made regarding MJ's death. It wasn't ideal, buy neither was Michael Jackson, who yes, had tragic elements in his life. We can't deny that. I don't ignore anything. I did say that Obama wouldn't risk anything of his popularity for Michael Jackson. I understand that. It was a "politically correct" statement. A safe statement. Something you would expect from a professional politician. I am just not impressed by it one bit and it left a bitter taste in my mouth. Like I said, you can word something in a million ways without throwing shade and that doesn't mean you have to come off the fence. Just look at the article Mike Huckabee wrote on June 29, 2009. I find this a lot more classy than Obama's comment. I am saying it as someone who is politically a lot closer to Obama than to Huckabee. www.foxnews.com/story/2009/06/29/when-dehumanize-celebrities-dehumanize-ourselves.html
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Post by stillborn on Apr 1, 2018 11:50:11 GMT
People reacted to Obamas comment at the time, and he was asked to make a comment to clear up.
Did this clear things up or just make it worse? Comments? Respect77? HIStoric? Vega?
Question: A lot of folks in the black community are concerned about how you reacted to Michael Jackson’s death. That it wasn’t respectful enough. How do you react to that? Obama: Well, I don’t know, I know a lot of people in the black community and I haven’t heard that. Question: I’ve been getting a lot of e-mails about it, and a lot of folks felt it wasn’t an official statement or something from you. Its not the typical way The White House responds when someone of stature dies. Obama: Well, you’re the first person who’s actually who’s actually asked me about it. So, you know, I think Michael Jackson will go down in history as one of the greatest entertainers. I grew up on his music. Still have all his stuff on my iPod. You know, I think that his brilliance as a performer also was paired with a tragic and in many ways sad personal life. But I’m glad to see that the he is being remembered primarily for the great joy that he brought to a lot of people through his extraordinary gift as an entertainer.
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Post by HIStoric on Apr 1, 2018 12:28:55 GMT
I don't know whose fan Obama personally was and whose wasn't (the Spotify playlist of Michelle Obama did contain an MJ song, and a surprising one at that, Unbreakable), but when he makes a comment as a president I don't think that should play a part. Also I don't think the tabloidish treatment MJ received in the last 15 years of his life should influence a presidential comment. There have been plenty of people who could make a more classy statement than Omaba did and I am sure those people were all aware of the tabloid crap too. Hell, Mike Huckabee, a conservative Republican, could made a more classy statement! There are a thousand ways one can word a statement and they don't have to come off the fence for that, but that doesn't mean they cannot avoid throwing shade. Ooh that's cool she included Unbreakable. Good to know they're (or at least she is) aware of some of his minor stuff ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) I mean I just have to be honest and say I don't find what he said to be offensive, to the point where I would complain anyway. I totally agree that it was safe and that he could've done better. I don't have an issue with him bringing up the whole tragedy thing like he did. If I had to give him a mark out 10, it'd be like a 5-6/10. Just passable, but room for improvement. Re: stillborn , while I appreciate his later comments about how he has all his stuff on his iPod, how he's glad he's remembered for the entertainer side, it would've been better had he included it in his original statements. BTW great post from Huckabee (coming as well from someone who disagrees with him a lot politically).
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Post by funksoldier on Apr 2, 2018 1:25:19 GMT
Whoopi Goldberg <3 She defended him and said "I would absolutely leave my children alone with Michael" And Britney is such a sweetheart. So is Lady Gaga. I wanna see the Amy Winehouse video too. I remember her saying something like "I was not sure if I wanted to be with him or be him". To quote Gaga, I think Amy also died of a broken heart. I adored her. I really miss Amy
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Post by mistermaxxx08 on Apr 2, 2018 3:08:00 GMT
I was disappointed in Obama, but that's a politician being a politician for you. yeah i feel Obama could have told the world that without an MJ I wouldn't have been elected because MJ's reach was well beyond music and his pressence and the doors and walls he broke down represent a whole lot more than some people like to acknowledge
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Post by mistermaxxx08 on Apr 2, 2018 3:12:42 GMT
to me what Rick James said was the most direct and he pulled no Punches.
Barry Gibb the same as well.
there were others however Rick James, Barry Gibb,Stevie Wonder were the more matter of fact.
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Post by Vega on Apr 2, 2018 20:48:57 GMT
to me what Rick James said was the most direct and he pulled no Punches. Barry Gibb the same as well. there were others however Rick James, Barry Gibb,Stevie Wonder were the more matter of fact. The brothers always come through. (including the brothers Gibb)
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Post by stillborn on Apr 2, 2018 20:58:34 GMT
Whoopi Goldberg 2009 Whoopi: Let me talk about my friend for a moment. My friend was Michael Jackson. He was at the very first audition I did for Color Purple. So for me every big event that has happened in my life has included always Michael Jackson. So to answer Mr King's question: "Would you leave you children in bed with Michael Jackson?" Yes, I would! Yes I did. I left my child with Michael Jackson. [Audience clapping] You know, I am going to air on the side of him not really knowing not sorting the music not caring. Just wanting to be out there, or having something to say, cause everybody has the right to say something. But unless you KNOW for sure. Especially if someone has been acquitted. Probably a way to avoid a slander suit from someone's family by saying "I think that this person. -- I -- think this person. Not, thats what they did, thats what they did" because clearly in court it was not PROVED thats they did, so just to say to Mr. King be careful. Say how you feel, but don't make it an edict because its already been proved to not be the case. Other host: But Michael in one interview does say it was totally appopriate to sleep in bed [with children]. He was a forty year something man with a child. Which I think is odd frankly. Frankly, to leave him with my children I would have a nanny cam on him. Whoopi: Well, here is the deal. Let me tell you about Michael. Michael Jackson from time he was that big he did nothing but perform. No life. No kid life, no nothing. This guy.. Sex is not part of his world. This is my opinon. I never believed sex was part of Michael's world, so him hurting a child! He's rather hurt an adult if he were to hurt somebody. He would NEVER hurt a child. This is the last person in the world, because to him they were the only people that understood him. So, I just wanted to put that out there, because wherever he is, I hope he stands there with Frank Sinatra and everybody else. Other host: I think there's another point to be made. Not about him, but just about pedophilia in general and that is that a lot of pedophiles say they are not hurting the child. That they're being "kind" to the child. Whoopi: That is not the case. I do not believe with Michael Jackson. I do not believe he was a pedophile, or any of those things. Madonna
Journalist: Still friends? Madonna: I haven't talked with him in ages. Journalist: Did you see the documentary? Madonna: I didn't. I heard about it. Everybody was talking about it at one point. Describes scenes to me, it just sounds horrifying. I don't wanna watch it. Journalist: Horrifying in what way? Madonna: It just sounds so exploitive. So -- I don't know, I don't like it. I don't like people humiliating other people like that. It doesn't seem right or fair. Journalist: (Reading up what Madonna has said prior to interview) You said this: "Humiliating someone for you own gain --" which is what I think you feel Martin Bashir may have done? Madonna: Yes. (Nods) Journalist: "-- will only come back to haunt you. I can assure you all these people will be sorry. God's going to have his revenge." Some of the more negative ones.... ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/sad.png) Elton John (in 1993, right after the allegations)Diane Walters: What do think about the whole business with Michael Jackson? Elton John: (Pause) God. Diane Walters: You think he should have settled? Elton John: I wouldn't have settled. And I wouldn't have cared if I had to sell out my last thing in life just to clear my name. I don't know anything about Michael Jackson's case what so ever. I don't know any of the facts. All I know is that if I had been innocent of those things I would have said I'm going for it. (Was wondering if I should post Gene Simmons quotes because they're quite offensive, but just to list the celebs who have commented! Don't read if you're easily offended!)Gene Simmons from KISS ...no matter what my fond memories and fond images of Michael were, with one allegation of paedophilia after another and another and another… Oh dear. I knew some of the musicians he toured with, and specifically one who quit because of seeing boys coming out of the hotel rooms. ... Well, you know, where there’s smoke there’s fire. There’s no question in my mind he molested those kids. Not a doubt. Michael’s on tape going, ‘Give the kids Jesus juice.’ Which is wine. I mean, it’s just endless.
+ “ And then you factor in that his travel agent was put on the stand and in court said that she was authorized to fly to Brazil and bring boys back to America for him… Well, you know, where there’s smoke there’s fire. There’s no question in my mind he molested those kids. Not a doubt.”
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“And incidentally, there’s never been a single female of any age that I’ve ever known about who has ever made a claim that she has had a physical relationship with Michael, ever. In fact, while he was alive, I never heard about mature men ever making that claim either – and believe me, you can’t keep it a secret. If you’re a celebrity, somebody somewhere will say, “Oh yeah, I shagged him.”
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" In 80s, i went out w/Diana Ross, we visited Michael Jackson. You don’t know me. Don’t make up things about me. FACT, He paid a family $22million to settle one case. FACT, He paid $3.5 mil to another family.I stand by my words. Millions of people around the world believe he was. Difficult to believe. That does not mean It's untrue." George MichaelI mean, I think, Jesus, you think about it, you think how much benefit of the doubt people have given Michael Jackson over the years, right? And he's accused of something really terrible. But when people really, Michael Jackson is regardless of whatever else he is or not, people appreciate someone's talent to that degree they don't wanna believe anything bad about them, and they're incredibly forgiving of some things. Obviously what Michael Jackson is accused of is not forgivable, and it would not be overcomable.
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Post by Thriller on Apr 3, 2018 2:18:26 GMT
You're posting comments by Gene Simmons... why exactly? Especially given they're nonsense. Jennifer Batten refuted a musician quitting due to boys coming out of MJ's hotel room. No travel agent testified that she flew to Brazil to bring boys back to the US for MJ. There is no tape of MJ saying to give children alcohol. Add to that the settlement figures are also false.
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Post by respect77 on Apr 3, 2018 2:20:06 GMT
The thread took an interesting turn. Not that I'm surprised...
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Post by respect77 on Apr 3, 2018 2:29:58 GMT
You're posting comments by Gene Simmons... why exactly? Especially given they're nonsense. Jennifer Batten refuted a musician quitting due to boys coming out of MJ's hotel room. No travel agent testified that she flew to Brazil to bring boys back to the US for MJ. There is no tape of MJ saying to give children alcohol. Add to that the settlement figures are also false. And Jennifer Batten also refuted the first comment back when Simmons made it. charlesthomsonjournalist.blogspot.hu/2010/02/jackson-guitarist-no-truth-to-simmons.html?m=1Simmons sure likes to pull things out of his ass when it comes to MJ.
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Post by Snow White on Apr 3, 2018 2:43:43 GMT
Isn't this thread called "famous people support Jackson"? How that asshole Gene Simmons fits into this discussion if he has always trashed Michael?
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