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Post by Russg on Aug 1, 2017 9:58:58 GMT
One thing that always bothered me about MJ's solo concerts was how he pretty much recycled the same show over and over since the Triumph tour. His shows always seem to follow the same pattern:
- Come out on stage and stare for 5 minutes - J5 medley, let's play-fight about singing old songs etc - recreate the music videos onstage, aping everything from the dance routines to the outfits - At times even using the same choreography from past tours. The MSG performance of Shake Your Body for example, looked pretty cringeful, using that same old routine from 20 years previous. I also remember being quite disappointed to see MJ on TII using the exact same routines for Jam and TDCAU.
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Post by HIStoric on Aug 1, 2017 10:40:27 GMT
Yeah, especially by HIStory/This Is It. I'm sure it was always a joy to see him in person, and he did help a bit by updating the special effects/visual aids or altering small things here and there, but ya know.
Some performances like Billie Jean should always remain the same, and for REALLY iconic dances like Thriller or Beat It, I'm fine if he kept the actual main dance the same, but I was always keen to see him brighten things up and differ them show to show or at least tour to tour. Sometimes it was good as he'd introduce new songs like Blood on the Dance Floor, but it was a shame because he then lipsynced it. There's a performance of Earth Song below where he differs from the routine and starts ad-libbing to the crowd, it's one of my favourite moments from the whole HIStory tour.
I always preferred his smaller, award show performances. He'd always freshen up things quite a bit during those. A perfect example is the 1995 MTV Performance. I think that's my favourite performance of his, certainly Top 3.
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Post by SoCav on Aug 1, 2017 11:35:40 GMT
^That was at the Royal Brunei concert, prior to the start of the HIStory Tour. The show's a bit of a hybrid between the Dangerous and HIStory tour (more the former).
For my personal taste MJ was too formulaic. His approach to live performing was in some ways more akin to a theater play than a live concert. He'd work to create what he thought was the perfect show for that tour and would then set out to recreate that image of perfection to the best of his abilities every night. Of course, the more special effects/theatrical elements he started using, the less spontaneous the show became. But, as you state, even before special effects became a big part of his shows, he tended to stick to a fixed pattern. His dancing was more spontaneous than what it would later become, though.
For me live performing is all about being in the moment, an artist and the fans experiencing something unique together. I've often thought about what could have been, had MJ been more like a Prince or Springsteen in that he would just change the setlist on the fly and play whatever he felt like doing on the night. But that just wasn't who he was and it did not fit the scope (in terms of huge numbers/special effects) that he wanted his shows to have.
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Post by HIStoric on Aug 1, 2017 12:12:36 GMT
^That was at the Royal Brunei concert, prior to the start of the HIStory Tour. The show's a bit of a hybrid between the Dangerous and HIStory tour (more the former). Ooohhh okay! Thanks.
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Post by dancingmjsdream on Aug 1, 2017 15:25:52 GMT
using the exact same routines for Jam and TDCAU. Didn't he update TDCAU (the drill) though?
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Post by MattyJam on Aug 1, 2017 21:51:14 GMT
I've said this before on a similar thread, I think MJ was different to a lot of other popstars, in the sense that he didn't just do random performances, they were more like song-and-dance installations or performance pieces, that were perfected, polished and constantly being tweaked over the years.
Some routines are just iconic, like Dangerous, Billie Jean, Beat It, Smooth Criminal... they are perfect as they are and don't need to be changed. But I can see why to someone watching MJ live footage on YouTube how it might seem like he's just copying the music videos in a lot of these songs, but I honestly don't think watching a MJ concert on YouTube gives you the full picture, of exactly how powerful and charismatic his stage presence was and how he could command 80,000 peoples undivided attention with just a single spotlight.
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Post by Hazelnut on Aug 2, 2017 2:35:48 GMT
I agree that iconic performances like BJ and Thriller should have remained the same, but I also didn't like the fact that most of his performances were rehashed through the years. I wish at some point he would have put more emphasis on singing the song and connecting with the audience instead of dancing it in a calculated way, like Stranger in Moscow for example, I wish he would have done that live and not mime it. Dont get me wrong, I still think MJ is the best out there, but I do wish he should have just let go of the perfected performances on stage and be more himself and have more fun. I was watching clips of the triumph tour or previous tours and he seems to have so much fun and improvise certain segments going along, but I feel he lost that as the years went on.
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Post by danileevanbuskirk on Aug 6, 2017 9:57:15 GMT
Yes absolutely over rehearsed right down to the millisecond..He let nothing be free form, even his fake crying etc.
If you watch say bad tour from one date to the next he did EVERY single move/talk/cry at the same exact time, night after night after night.
Sadly with MJ while I LOOOVE me some bad tour, once you have seen one you have seen them all..
Now Yokohama vs London of course is different (set list) But overall MJ never broke out and changed a set list, never was free with his dance never really adlibed off the cuff. Never just chatted with the crowd freely, every part was highly scripted as he said the same thing nightly.
I have NO idea how someone could remain sane with NO change of nightly shows for over a year.. I know the band mates did not really care for it, they did know though that is what they were hired to do so they did it..
So to sum up, YEP way to formulaic for his whole solo life..Started back in the Triumph era TBH.
Dani
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Post by mjjfan810 on Aug 6, 2017 12:30:38 GMT
Yes absolutely over rehearsed right down to the millisecond..He let nothing be free form, even his fake crying etc. If you watch say bad tour from one date to the next he did EVERY single move/talk/cry at the same exact time, night after night after night. Sadly with MJ while I LOOOVE me some bad tour, once you have seen one you have seen them all.. Now Yokohama vs London of course is different (set list) But overall MJ never broke out and changed a set list, never was free with his dance never really adlibed off the cuff. Never just chatted with the crowd freely, every part was highly scripted as he said the same thing nightly. I have NO idea how someone could remain sane with NO change of nightly shows for over a year.. I know the band mates did not really care for it, they did know though that is what they were hired to do so they did it.. So to sum up, YEP way to formulaic for his whole solo life..Started back in the Triumph era TBH. Dani I think that's why Billie Jean was always my favourite live song in his shows, because it's the one song where he improvises a bit at the end during the breakdown. Especially on the HIStory tour, some of the performances of Billie Jean could last anywhere from 10-15 minutes. That shit is golden, and is the kind of thing I would've liked to have seen more of from MJ.
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Post by Liberian Girl on Aug 6, 2017 13:34:18 GMT
Just read this in Corey Feldman's biography, made me think of this thread:
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Post by dancingmjsdream on Aug 6, 2017 14:46:59 GMT
Sometimes I'm glad that he doesn't change things up though. When I saw the new routines for Thriller or Bad in the rehearsals of the 1995 HBO special I cringed. Some things should remain the same. That's something I don't like about Madonna's shows. She changed some of her songs and made them sound more modern, never liked it.
I think MJ should have performed more new songs.He wouldn't really have needed to change things that are already iconic (Thriller,Billie Jean,TDCAU,...) if there had been always enough new material. I think there should have been more new routines for songs like CLHGA, Heartbreaker etc. And he should have performed 2Bad and Remember the Time.
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Post by danileevanbuskirk on Aug 6, 2017 20:56:11 GMT
MJ said himself he wished he could change his classics up, but claimed he could not because fans would not like it and possibly be upset..Now he claimed this and put the blame on "fans" where if you ask me MJ was afraid to put new things out there, afraid to take risk and afraid not to be accepted..
He honestly was a guy who boxed himself in, and often said it was because of "fans" that he did or did not do things..Just an easy blame shift.
I have read all over the net, even just casual fans said they loved seeing him live, yet the exp was one where you could tell every breath he took, every move he made every crotch grab ,toe stand even his facial expressions (pouts and snarls) etc were planned to an inch of its life.
A few folks say, yeah his live concerts especially during Bad tour and before were top notch, very slick yet over produced.
With someone like Prince, you got a new set list at every show(prince often changed the set list on a dime a few moments before taking the stage) a very natural vibe of energy with nothing really planned so many have said Prince with his free flow style they preferred..Even though they though MJ was world class it was to controlled..
Dani
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Post by mjjfan810 on Aug 6, 2017 22:20:26 GMT
Where did you see these rehearsals? Is there footage of MJ's HBO rehearsals online?
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Post by dancingmjsdream on Aug 7, 2017 8:45:21 GMT
These are only snippets, sadly there is no footage of full rehearsals yet youtu.be/WRHucNrj7JMMJ isn't in the footage, I think it was shortly after he got in the hospital and they thought the show was still happening
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Post by Russg on Aug 8, 2017 6:57:04 GMT
These are only snippets, sadly there is no footage of full rehearsals yet youtu.be/WRHucNrj7JMMJ isn't in the footage, I think it was shortly after he got in the hospital and they thought the show was still happening Oh God, Bad with those canes looks really corny! And backflips during Thriller??? I think MJ had a lucky escape with that one....
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