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Post by mjjfan810 on Apr 10, 2018 18:27:55 GMT
For me, it is this one:
The Red Hot Chili Peppers album One Hot Minute is an awesome mid-90s funk-rock record, which was unfairly maligned by the critics and underperformed commercially for the band. They followed this up with an inferior album (Californication) which went on to become a massive success for the band. Go figure.
Which flop albums do you think deserve to be reevaluated and were unfairly under-appreciated at the time of their release? |
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Post by MattyJam on Apr 10, 2018 18:49:47 GMT
Nice choice mjjfan.
I don't know if I would agree that OHM is superior to Californication, but it definitely is an underrated album for sure.
There are tonnes of albums that I love that weren't massive hits. But what is a flop and how is one measured? Some would call Invincible a flop, but it was number one in dozens of countries and was in the top 10 selling worldwide albums of the year it was released, so again, what makes it a flop? I guess it's all relative to the artist/band and the success they've enjoyed previously.
To me, an album is a hit if I enjoy it. I don't pay much attention to whether something is critically acclaimed or not and I'm only interested in albums I love being commercially successful so that the artist can go on to make more.
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Post by ghost on Apr 10, 2018 19:03:34 GMT
American Life by Madonna. I think everyone assumed the album was this "anti-American" statement or something and "bashes Bush". Hardly! It's very personal and more about fame and family love. It is a bit of mess considering how her album tend to be kind of tight. But that isn't what turned people off. The first single did and unfortunately they didn't stick around for the second. It's a shame the album flopped for Madonna, as I think the laid back, acoustic, personal vibe really suited her and I think she has suffered creatively ever since.
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Post by mjjfan810 on Apr 11, 2018 7:14:04 GMT
American Life by Madonna. I think everyone assumed the album was this "anti-American" statement or something and "bashes Bush". Hardly! It's very personal and more about fame and family love. It is a bit of mess considering how her album tend to be kind of tight. But that isn't what turned people off. The first single did and unfortunately they didn't stick around for the second. It's a shame the album flopped for Madonna, as I think the laid back, acoustic, personal vibe really suited her and I think she has suffered creatively ever since. I agree.
I would argue that American Life is a better album than anything she has done since, and better than Music too - which was a massive hit. There are so many variables at play which determine whether a record is a hit or not, commercially and critically. Weirdly enough, very seldom is an albums success dependent on the actual quality of the music.
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TonyR
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Post by TonyR on Apr 11, 2018 14:22:53 GMT
American Life by Madonna. I think everyone assumed the album was this "anti-American" statement or something and "bashes Bush". Hardly! It's very personal and more about fame and family love. It is a bit of mess considering how her album tend to be kind of tight. But that isn't what turned people off. The first single did and unfortunately they didn't stick around for the second. It's a shame the album flopped for Madonna, as I think the laid back, acoustic, personal vibe really suited her and I think she has suffered creatively ever since. I agree.
I would argue that American Life is a better album than anything she has done since, and better than Music too - which was a massive hit. There are so many variables at play which determine whether a record is a hit or not, commercially and critically. Weirdly enough, very seldom is an albums success dependent on the actual quality of the music.
American Life is quite simply her best album. Simple as that. Ironically, it was seen as unpatriotic at the time, but now, no famous person has any qualms criticizing their country or government (for obvious reasons). Mother & Father is a masterpiece. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 0:37:26 GMT
I strongly disagree with both choices. I can't even listento American life, it is the biggest pile of shit she ever put out. Not one catchy dance song or upbeat moment. Just left wing whinging and neo Marxist psycobabble.
One Hot minute sucks ass, songs like Pea and others are just jokes, that album wa stheir biggest ever fuck you to their fans, all their albums to it, were flawless, RHCP, Freakey Styley, Uplift Mofo Party Plan, Abbey Road ep, Mothers Milk (Their best) and BSSM. One hot minute has 2 good songs - My friends and Aeroplane and thank God they were there as they saved that train wreck. Thank God Californication was a million times better and By the Way was the best they had put out since BSSM. Stadium Arcadium was overkill though, I guess I outgrew the Chilis by the time I was 27.
A flop album that needs re evaluation is Invincible, this album even gets shit from MJ fans and most of the non fans have never heard it and or rain scorn on it. Also the Kinks put out several albums between 1967 and 1975 which are really good, but completely
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Post by ghost on Apr 12, 2018 5:59:02 GMT
I can't even listento American life, it is the biggest pile of shit she ever put out. Not one catchy dance song or upbeat moment. Die Another Day, Mother & Father, Nobody Knows Me, Hollywood and the title track are all upbeat. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 6:34:23 GMT
How about all the TTD albums after his first. They were flops, Neither ish nor flesh was a huge come down commecially - but i really like it, he shows a sensitive side. Symphony or Damn is probably not a flop, but its mid teens chart placing is not that successful either considering the multi platinum success of his first album, the gold album is a let down commercially, even though 2 singles were hits (Delicate - one of my absoulte favourite songs by anyone and the brilliant Let her down easy). Then is Vibrator one of his finest records with the incredible "Holding on to you" which barely troubled the charts although Holding I think was in the 20s. Then Wildcard, songs like Oh Davina and Designated Fool were streets ahead of any of the crap clogging the charts in 01 except songs by a certain Mr Jackson.
Seriously guys, Terence Trent Darby is such an overlooked artist, who has had more flops than he ever deserved.
And even most of Prince's outputs after 1995. He had flop after flop, most of the albums were good and the fans lapped them up, but he had no real chart action after Emancipation (Apart froma WB re release of 1999), okay Musicologya nd 3121 were big album hits, but Musicology climbed thanks to Prince giving it away at his concerts and 3121 on hype, when it flopped down quickly and barely sold Gold. Great singles like Fury and Black Sweat made it into the lowest reaches of the Hot 100, commercially his post 1994 work was all flops, his last major hit being 1994's Most Beautiful Girl in the world, which was a huge hit reaching #1 in many places and #3 in the USA.
As for Madonna, I want end to this debate over that debacle. I own it, have listened to it but can not get into it, and this is someone who likes both Music and Confessions. Seriously listen to Confessions on a Dancefloor it sounds nothing like American life and is an improvement in every way.
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Post by Russg on Apr 12, 2018 8:31:15 GMT
I didn't think Robbie's Rudebox album was half bad. The lead single was awful, but there were some great songs on the album. Sometimes artists kill their own albums dead in the water with bad single choices which give people a false impression of the rest of the album.
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TonyR
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Post by TonyR on Apr 12, 2018 9:55:28 GMT
I didn't think Robbie's Rudebox album was half bad. The lead single was awful, but there were some great songs on the album. Sometimes artists kill their own albums dead in the water with bad single choices which give people a false impression of the rest of the album. Yeah, especially in the last ten years, you only seem to get one chance to impress with the lead single being crucial. Gone are the times when for example Mike's lead choices on Thriller & Bad were by far the least best singles on their albums. |
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Post by HIStoric on Apr 12, 2018 10:44:09 GMT
I didn't think Robbie's Rudebox album was half bad. The lead single was awful, but there were some great songs on the album. Sometimes artists kill their own albums dead in the water with bad single choices which give people a false impression of the rest of the album. Yeah, especially in the last ten years, you only seem to get one chance to impress with the lead single being crucial. Gone are the times when for example Mike's lead choices on Thriller & Bad were by far the least best singles on their albums. I can imagine the internet full of dissapointment if Thriller was released in 2012, and Bad in 2017. The first single from Michael Jackson in 5 years? The relaxed ballad, IJCSLY. I'd be disappointed. Not because I dislike the song (I quite enjoy it), it's just that I'd just be expecting something huge and big for the first single off his follow-up to Thriller y'know? |
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TonyR
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Post by TonyR on Apr 12, 2018 11:23:04 GMT
Yeah, especially in the last ten years, you only seem to get one chance to impress with the lead single being crucial. Gone are the times when for example Mike's lead choices on Thriller & Bad were by far the least best singles on their albums. I can imagine the internet full of dissapointment if Thriller was released in 2012, and Bad in 2017. The first single from Michael Jackson in 5 years? The relaxed ballad, IJCSLY. I'd be disappointed. Not because I dislike the song (I quite enjoy it), it's just that I'd just be expecting something huge and big for the first single off his follow-up to Thriller y'know? Yes but at the time it was so clever. Bad started the complete opposite of how Thriller ended. Thriller ended with the longest, most expensive short film ever made alongside a funky, horror themed dance track. Bad started with a sweet love ballad with no video. Completely contrasting everyone's expectations. Once that had whetted everyone's appetite then he started the Bad campaign in earnest with the 15 minute Bad extravaganza. A very brave move that maybe would not work today. |
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Post by MattyJam on Apr 12, 2018 11:35:04 GMT
Yeah, especially in the last ten years, you only seem to get one chance to impress with the lead single being crucial. Gone are the times when for example Mike's lead choices on Thriller & Bad were by far the least best singles on their albums. I can imagine the internet full of dissapointment if Thriller was released in 2012, and Bad in 2017. The first single from Michael Jackson in 5 years? The relaxed ballad, IJCSLY. I'd be disappointed. Not because I dislike the song (I quite enjoy it), it's just that I'd just be expecting something huge and big for the first single off his follow-up to Thriller y'know? I think that by the time MJ released YRMW, the idea of a slow-burner/teaser single had already worn thin. Now don't get me wrong, I love YRMW and think it's a terrific song, but a bolder statement was needed to announce his return to music back in 2001 and YRMW wasn't enough to match those expectations. Unbreakable or Whatever Happens would've been a much stronger statement. And you're right, MJ would've been hung, drawn and slaughtered in 2018, if he had followed up the biggest selling album of all time with a MOR sappy ballad like IJCSLY. It would've been career suicide and they would've had to have done some serious damage control to reignite public interest in the Bad album. Just shows how different it was in 1987 compared to 2018. Nowadays, people want to be bowled over straight away and if you don't capture their imagination in four minutes, you're rarely allowed a second chance to impress. |
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TonyR
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Post by TonyR on Apr 12, 2018 11:38:15 GMT
I can imagine the internet full of dissapointment if Thriller was released in 2012, and Bad in 2017. The first single from Michael Jackson in 5 years? The relaxed ballad, IJCSLY. I'd be disappointed. Not because I dislike the song (I quite enjoy it), it's just that I'd just be expecting something huge and big for the first single off his follow-up to Thriller y'know? I think that by the time MJ released YRMW, the idea of a slow-burner/teaser single had already worn thin. Now don't get me wrong, I love YRMW and think it's a terrific song, but a bolder statement was needed to announce his return to music back in 2001 and YRMW wasn't enough to match those expectations. Unbreakable or Whatever Happens would've been a much stronger statement. And you're right, MJ would've been hung, drawn and slaughtered in 2018, if he had followed up the biggest selling album of all time with a MOR sappy ballad like IJCSLY. It would've been career suicide and they would've had to have done some serious damage control to reignite public interest in the Bad album. Just shows how different it was in 1987 compared to 2018. People want to be bowled over straight away and if you don't capture their imagination in four minutes, your rarely allowed a second chance to impress. Yeah I was gonna mention YRMW, but thought I'd get slaughtered for it! In 2001 the landscape was different and you needed a killer first track. Or something different that would surprise people, that's why I always wish it would have been Whatever Happens as the first single. It annoys me that artists & bands are still making the same mistake though. I know I've mentioned it before but Madonna's last 2 lead singles have been ridiculous choices. |
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Post by MattyJam on Apr 12, 2018 11:43:32 GMT
I think that by the time MJ released YRMW, the idea of a slow-burner/teaser single had already worn thin. Now don't get me wrong, I love YRMW and think it's a terrific song, but a bolder statement was needed to announce his return to music back in 2001 and YRMW wasn't enough to match those expectations. Unbreakable or Whatever Happens would've been a much stronger statement. And you're right, MJ would've been hung, drawn and slaughtered in 2018, if he had followed up the biggest selling album of all time with a MOR sappy ballad like IJCSLY. It would've been career suicide and they would've had to have done some serious damage control to reignite public interest in the Bad album. Just shows how different it was in 1987 compared to 2018. People want to be bowled over straight away and if you don't capture their imagination in four minutes, your rarely allowed a second chance to impress. Yeah I was gonna mention YRMW, but thought I'd get slaughtered for it! In 2001 the landscape was different and you needed a killer first track. Or something different that would surprise people, that's why I always wish it would have been Whatever Happens as the first single. It annoys me that artists & bands are still making the same mistake though. I know I've mentioned it before but Madonna's last 2 lead singles have been ridiculous choices. You have to ask yourself what's created that change though. I think it's the internet age - people are more critical now. Back in the 80s/90s, an artist or a band put out a new song and you either liked it or you didn't, but you were very much alone in how you felt, there was no group think, there was no way of gauging the general consensus of a fanbase, message boards didn't exist, social media didn't exist. That started to change around the late 90s and early 00s. I kind of miss the innocent days when you would turn on Top Of The Pops and out of nowhere you would see that MJ had a new song/video out. Whilst fanbases are more connected these days, sometimes it takes the magic out of it a bit. |
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