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Post by WildStyle on Jun 11, 2022 9:02:06 GMT
Disclaimer: I'm not saying MJ was a pedophile. I repeat, I'm not saying MJ was a pedophile. I don't believe any of the accusations are credible. Period.
Ok, so I admit to being a bit triggered by the constant bullshit about Elvis I keep seeing posted on twitter by MJ fans.
Can we agree that cases A and B are not comparable?
A - Man who has a history of travelling with, spending time with and constantly being seen in the company of an array of child friends is accused by 5 people he spent time alone with (4 of whom he spent nights with) of sexual molestation. One case is settled for millions of dollars and another goes to trial. The man is never really known to have had any serious relationships with women other than 1 he married following the first accusation.
B - Man meets his future wife when she is 14 and he is 24 circa 1959. Said woman comes to live with man's father and stepmother at the age of 16 and eventually moves in with the man with the blessing of her parents. Man marries woman when she turns 21 and they have intercourse for the first time. 9 months later to the day a daughter is born. Man is never rumoured to have had any romances with underage girls in his lifetime and is never accused of such by anybody. His many relationships with adult women are well publicised.
Can we maybe see why these two situations are not treated EXACTLY the same way by the media? Can we see that it might be a BIT more nuanced than just one man is white and the other is black?
That's not to say Elvis and Priscilla's relationship hasn't been scandalised by the media. I remember seeing many stories about it when I was old enough to read my mum's tabloid magazines in the 90's (when the generation gap wasn't as large and Elvis' name was still capable of selling magazines). There was even a well publicised trashy book released about it called Child Bride (despite her not being a child when they married).
Why can't MJ fans combat the media without constantly dragging other artists without comparable situations into it? Why can't they understand that there is a lot more to it than just MJ being black?
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respect77
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Post by respect77 on Jun 11, 2022 10:20:11 GMT
I read Priscilla's autobiography and if what she says is true I don't think their relationship when she was still underage was completely appropriate. And I don't mean the sex part, because her story is that they first had sex when she was a legal adult. But she does tell about some other weird stuff in her autobiography when she was still a minor, ie. I remember an occasion described in the book when Elvis drugged her up and she was knocked out for days. I still don't know WTF that was about and I don't think it's appropriate behavior and might potentially have even criminal. I remember reading that book and thinking Elvis didn't come across very well in it. Again, that's if you believe Priscilla. Although in her case I think her interest is more a clean Elvis image than slandering him, so I don't know why she would make that up.
Having said that, I don't like what MJ fans are doing now with Elvis and I refuse to participate in it. I suspect most of it comes from some sort of jealousy that he's getting a biopic and getting celebrated without all the negative undertones that any MJ celebration usually has to face. But that's not Elvis's fault and I think it's petty from MJ fans to go to articles about the Elvis movie and rage about all this stuff. I have seen an MJ fan who's doing that more or less admit that they are scared of the Elvis biopic pushing the Elvis hype so that he would overshadow MJ. Which is ridiculous in so many ways. Are fans really that insecure in MJ's legacy? Let Elvis have his shine, I don't feel MJ fans have any business with that, let alone having to feel threatened by it. It's ridiculous. But I think this is the actual root of this behavior.
I think there are certain situations when it's proper to bring up media hypocrisy and point out they are treating different people differently. When it comes to MJ they constantly want people to be reminded of the allegations. You can't have an MJ project without them wanting to center the allegations. (See, for example, media articles about the MJ Musical.) And that's unfair. MJ's biggest legacy aren't the allegations which have never been proven, anyway. You can find his relationship with children weird all you want, but that's not evidence. I haven't seen the Elvis biopic but I doubt the Priscilla drugging scene is going to be in it and that's okay. It's probably meant to celebrate his legacy.
But MJ fans are stupid to demand that the media demands that such episodes would be featured in the movie. Our fight shouldn't be that because MJ is treated unfairly, other celebrities are trashed as well. Our fight should be that MJ should be allowed to be celebrated without getting trashed, like other celebrities are allowed to be celebrated in positive ways and without centering their controversies.
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Post by SmoothGangsta on Jun 11, 2022 11:10:34 GMT
Not really sure about the whole Elvis thing, I personally do not think their relationship was entirely appropriate.
When it comes to MJ fans on sites like twitter though I generally try to stay away, I don't know why but they are either all 14 and like to spread false info or just act like children.
Not saying this is exclusive to MJ fans online, but still.
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Post by WildStyle on Jun 11, 2022 12:08:57 GMT
I read Priscilla's autobiography and if what she says is true I don't think their relationship when she was still underage was completely appropriate. And I don't mean the sex part, because her story is that they first had sex when she was a legal adult. But she does tell about some other weird stuff in her autobiography when she was still a minor, ie. I remember an occasion described in the book when Elvis drugged her up and she was knocked out for days. I still don't know WTF that was about and I don't think it's appropriate behavior and might potentially have even criminal. I remember reading that book and thinking Elvis didn't come across very well in it. Again, that's if you believe Priscilla. Although in her case I think her interest is more a clean Elvis image than slandering him, so I don't know why she would make that up. Having said that, I don't like what MJ fans are doing now with Elvis and I refuse to participate in it. I suspect most of it comes from some sort of jealousy that he's getting a biopic and getting celebrated without all the negative undertones that any MJ celebration usually has to face. But that's not Elvis's fault and I think it's petty from MJ fans to go to articles about the Elvis movie and rage about all this stuff. I have seen an MJ fan who's doing that more or less admit that they are scared of the Elvis biopic pushing the Elvis hype so that he would overshadow MJ. Which is ridiculous in so many ways. Are fans really that insecure in MJ's legacy? Let Elvis have his shine, I don't feel MJ fans have any business with that, let alone having to feel threatened by it. It's ridiculous. But I think this is the actual root of this behavior. I think there are certain situations when it's proper to bring up media hypocrisy and point out they are treating different people differently. When it comes to MJ they constantly want people to be reminded of the allegations. You can't have an MJ project without them wanting to center the allegations. (See, for example, media articles about the MJ Musical.) And that's unfair. MJ's biggest legacy aren't the allegations which have never been proven, anyway. You can find his relationship with children weird all you want, but that's not evidence. I haven't seen the Elvis biopic but I doubt the Priscilla drugging scene is going to be in it and that's okay. It's probably meant to celebrate his legacy. But MJ fans are stupid to demand that the media demands that such episodes would be featured in the movie. Our fight shouldn't be that because MJ is treated unfairly, other celebrities are trashed as well. Our fight should be that MJ should be allowed to be celebrated without getting trashed, like other celebrities are allowed to be celebrated in positive ways and without centering their controversies. I think you're right about some of the underlying cause. I don't remember so much backlash against Freddie Mercury when Bohemian Rahpsody came out but maybe I wasn't paying as much attention. I think a lot of it is the general misconception out there amongst some that "Elvis = bad untalented white man that stole from black artists." There's so much that needs to be done to rehabilitate MJ's image so he's allowed to shine like he deserves. Fans alone can't do it, but nobody else is doing anything. There's so many contributing factors to the way MJ is treated though and a lot of it is as superficial as his looks and "weirdo" tabloid persona that was allowed to run rampant from the mid 80's in conjunction with his unconventional lifestyle. It's just so easy to "otherise" him. As for the Elvis drugging thing. I don't think it was so much that he "drugged" her. You have to realise Elvis was very heavy into pills at this time and considered it normal because it was "doctor prescribed." Everybody in his entourage were doing the same drugs. He'd have pills to wake up and pills to go to bed. He wouldn't have thought twice about giving her pills because it was a part of his every day life. If you were with him, you did what he did, which meant taking pills. He wouldn't even stop to think that she didn't have the tolerance like him and his gang did. Dangerous, irresponsible and childish, but not sinister. I read that book too. She certainly got a lot of publicity out of it and it was even turned into a movie. I think it was mostly honest and the way she viewed things at the time but certainly leaned on the sensational... as these books tend to do.
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Post by NatureCriminal7896 on Jun 11, 2022 12:38:05 GMT
even though i find Elvis's relationship with Priscilla weird. i will say this doesn't got anything to do with MJ. i do feel when you do make a biopic about anyone you should put everything that happen in their life. that's also including lies and rumors.
i will say racism exist i will say the media is racist. BUT this got nothing to do with MJ.
Michael is innocent.
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Post by NatureCriminal7896 on Jun 11, 2022 13:01:57 GMT
some mj fans on twitter are toxic. that's why i don't do it period. but some mj fans these days are younger. the older fans can be this way too but i see more younger fans then i do older. some older fans tend to not engage stuff like this. others do.
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Post by NatureCriminal7896 on Jun 11, 2022 13:29:58 GMT
no hate to the younger fans nor the older fans but we need to stop doing things like this and focus on Michael then what some other artist etc did and compare them to Michael.
i should point out the fandom was doing the samething with Johnny Depp.
please stop. every case is different. Michael deserves his innocence too BUT stop comparing him to everybody else.
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respect77
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Post by respect77 on Jun 11, 2022 14:30:07 GMT
I read Priscilla's autobiography and if what she says is true I don't think their relationship when she was still underage was completely appropriate. And I don't mean the sex part, because her story is that they first had sex when she was a legal adult. But she does tell about some other weird stuff in her autobiography when she was still a minor, ie. I remember an occasion described in the book when Elvis drugged her up and she was knocked out for days. I still don't know WTF that was about and I don't think it's appropriate behavior and might potentially have even criminal. I remember reading that book and thinking Elvis didn't come across very well in it. Again, that's if you believe Priscilla. Although in her case I think her interest is more a clean Elvis image than slandering him, so I don't know why she would make that up. Having said that, I don't like what MJ fans are doing now with Elvis and I refuse to participate in it. I suspect most of it comes from some sort of jealousy that he's getting a biopic and getting celebrated without all the negative undertones that any MJ celebration usually has to face. But that's not Elvis's fault and I think it's petty from MJ fans to go to articles about the Elvis movie and rage about all this stuff. I have seen an MJ fan who's doing that more or less admit that they are scared of the Elvis biopic pushing the Elvis hype so that he would overshadow MJ. Which is ridiculous in so many ways. Are fans really that insecure in MJ's legacy? Let Elvis have his shine, I don't feel MJ fans have any business with that, let alone having to feel threatened by it. It's ridiculous. But I think this is the actual root of this behavior. I think there are certain situations when it's proper to bring up media hypocrisy and point out they are treating different people differently. When it comes to MJ they constantly want people to be reminded of the allegations. You can't have an MJ project without them wanting to center the allegations. (See, for example, media articles about the MJ Musical.) And that's unfair. MJ's biggest legacy aren't the allegations which have never been proven, anyway. You can find his relationship with children weird all you want, but that's not evidence. I haven't seen the Elvis biopic but I doubt the Priscilla drugging scene is going to be in it and that's okay. It's probably meant to celebrate his legacy. But MJ fans are stupid to demand that the media demands that such episodes would be featured in the movie. Our fight shouldn't be that because MJ is treated unfairly, other celebrities are trashed as well. Our fight should be that MJ should be allowed to be celebrated without getting trashed, like other celebrities are allowed to be celebrated in positive ways and without centering their controversies. I think you're right about some of the underlying cause. I don't remember so much backlash against Freddie Mercury when Bohemian Rahpsody came out but maybe I wasn't paying as much attention. I think a lot of it is the general misconception out there amongst some that "Elvis = bad untalented white man that stole from black artists."ย I don't remember any backlash from MJ fans against Bohemian Rhapsody, so yeah, maybe there's more to it than that. Maybe some fans feel more threatened by Elvis because he's a solo artist like MJ, and also because he's more often put in the Top 3 of all time (Elvis, Beatles, MJ), so they feel more competitive with him. There's also definitely a race factor in it for some. But it's stupid. So what if Elvis gets a bit of hype from this? I really don't think it affects MJ in any way and we should be petty about it. And also on the human side, I'm not sure why MJ fans should be jerks to Elvis, his family or fans? I know some MJ fans hate LMP and I felt sometimes that (even considering the things she said around the early 2000s when she was angry with MJ) that hate was disproportionate. I think that disproportionate hate too has something to do with sentiments around Elvis and race in the MJ fandom. And whatever one may think of her comments back then, she obviously has regrets and I really don't think she's an enemy for us. Her daughter Riley said nothing but nice things about MJ and Elvis himself was very nice to the Jacksons that one time they met in Vegas. So I really don't get why we should make ourselves enemies with the Presleys or the Elvis fandom. MJ needs more allies, not more enemies.
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Post by WildStyle on Jun 11, 2022 15:13:53 GMT
I think you're right about some of the underlying cause. I don't remember so much backlash against Freddie Mercury when Bohemian Rahpsody came out but maybe I wasn't paying as much attention. I think a lot of it is the general misconception out there amongst some that "Elvis = bad untalented white man that stole from black artists." I don't remember any backlash from MJ fans against Bohemian Rhapsody, so yeah, maybe there's more to it than that. Maybe some fans feel more threatened by Elvis because he's a solo artist like MJ, and also because he's more often put in the Top 3 of all time (Elvis, Beatles, MJ), so they feel more competitive with him. There's also definitely a race factor in it for some. But it's stupid. So what if Elvis gets a bit of hype from this? I really don't think it affects MJ in any way and we should be petty about it. And also on the human side, I'm not sure why MJ fans should be jerks to Elvis, his family or fans? I know some MJ fans hate LMP and I felt sometimes that (even considering the things she said around the early 2000s when she was angry with MJ) that hate was disproportionate. I think that disproportionate hate too has something to do with sentiments around Elvis and race in the MJ fandom. And whatever one may think of her comments back then, she obviously has regrets and I really don't think she's an enemy for us. Her daughter Riley said nothing but nice things about MJ and Elvis himself was very nice to the Jacksons that one time they met in Vegas. So I really don't get why we should make ourselves enemies with the Presleys or the Elvis fandom. MJ needs more allies, not more enemies. Even weirder are those that are positive when it comes to LMP but then turn around and say horrible things about her father. MJ fans get so upset about people talking crap about MJ without doing their due diligence, while they themselves do the same thing when it comes to other artists. I don't think they even realise that they're doing it, but it's so hypocritical. There's no need to disrespect other artists to lift up MJ.
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Post by NatureCriminal7896 on Jun 11, 2022 15:41:59 GMT
hahaha i'm not threatened by Elvis or the Beatles etc. each fan is different though. i mean MJ still on the charts after almost 13 years since his death.
why should i worry? and why should i care if another artist up on the charts? i don't get it. let other artists shine.
i wouldn't say i hate Lisa Marie. but i do hate her comments and the fact she didn't want to have kids with MJ.
some fans wish they stay together. i see fans post pictures of them all the time and never say anything bad.
i personally felt she wasn't the type for Michael from the start. but at the end of the day i wouldn't care if they stayed together.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2022 16:21:59 GMT
Not really sure about the whole Elvis thing, I personally do not think their relationship was entirely appropriate. When it comes to MJ fans on sites like twitter though I generally try to stay away, I don't know why but they are either all 14 and like to spread false info or just act like children.Not saying this is exclusive to MJ fans online, but still. Surely not exclusive to MJ but the amount of absolute utter nonsense that was appearing on my TL is why MJ is almost non-existent on Twitter for me now.
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Post by WildStyle on Jun 11, 2022 17:42:08 GMT
Not really sure about the whole Elvis thing, I personally do not think their relationship was entirely appropriate. When it comes to MJ fans on sites like twitter though I generally try to stay away, I don't know why but they are either all 14 and like to spread false info or just act like children.Not saying this is exclusive to MJ fans online, but still. Surely not exclusive to MJ but the amount of absolute utter nonsense that was appearing on my TL is why MJ is almost non-existent on Twitter for me now. The amount of people I have to mute is crazy.
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TonyR
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Post by TonyR on Jun 11, 2022 22:39:27 GMT
Surely not exclusive to MJ but the amount of absolute utter nonsense that was appearing on my TL is why MJ is almost non-existent on Twitter for me now.ย The amount of people I have to mute is crazy.ย I just came off it. Why hang around in a room where 99% of the people there are filled with hatred and rage?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2022 13:57:10 GMT
The amount of people I have to mute is crazy.ย I just came off it. Why hang around in a room where 99% of the people there are filled with hatred and rage? I stay for the memes and funny videos and stuff if I'm honest.
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TonyR
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Post by TonyR on Jun 17, 2022 17:45:48 GMT
I just came off it. Why hang around in a room where 99% of the people there are filled with hatred and rage? I stay for the memes and funny videos and stuff if I'm honest. You're part of the problem.
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