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Post by ghost on Mar 18, 2019 0:43:07 GMT
Oh God, that doesn’t even bare thinking about!!! Sometimes I hate living in 2019...... I hear ya and I'm so sorry to bring it up. I just have to be honest and say it's been a fear of mine for a while. Back when I heard about this stuff (I think it was when the Jordan Peele / Obama video was made) my first thought was "Oh my God, someone could manufacture 'evidence' against Michael with this!" I realize there are much bigger world issues that could come about because of this but Michael was the first thing I thought of. Is there no way of determining that these videos are faked? |
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Post by respect77 on Mar 18, 2019 5:39:39 GMT
An MJ impersonator said recently that he was offered money to pose for a video that would have made MJ look guilty. Nor sure if it's true or not, but yeah, fake videos are a possibility.
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Post by Liberian Girl on Mar 18, 2019 6:05:30 GMT
An MJ impersonator said recently that he was offered money to pose for a video that would have made MJ look guilty. Nor sure if it's true or not, but yeah, fake videos are a possibility. Oh God. I wish this thought never entered my head. |
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Post by SmoothGangsta on Mar 18, 2019 22:43:28 GMT
I know a few people who have watched the documentary and honestly their reaction to it was just "I don't know if it was true". And one of them also asked me if it was actually true because they know I'm a big fan. I don't think anyone in my life has actually said it convinced them one way or the other. I honestly think they went over the top in trying to shock people and it back fired into being not entirely believable. Just proves to me that anyone who watches it and thinks he is guilty probably was leaning that way anyway.
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Post by Liberian Girl on Mar 19, 2019 13:34:34 GMT
How are people dealing with nasty comments? Honestly, I've had a few now. I never thought in my life I'd ever be called a "paedophile apologist."
It gets me down at times.
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Post by HIStoric on Mar 20, 2019 6:37:40 GMT
At work today had some pretty good discussions around MJ.
Smooth Criminal was playing on shuffle in my workspace (from a playlist of mine that was a general one, not MJ related) and a coworker mentioned how Smooth Criminal, the video, was like 10 minutes of some of his most favourite media ever - just the combination of music and movement.
Then later on, I was in the office of a supervisor and she asked me what I thought about Leaving Neverland. Ended up spending the next 10-20 minutes discussing the film in detail, pulling Robson and Safechuck's argument apart quite a bit - even using some stuff I learnt on here recently (especially with Safechuck's constant changing revelation of sexual abuse), the fact that at first Robson kept his lawsuit secret so the public wouldn't know (don't know the legal term for it sorry), which proved he was only in it for money. Also the fact one of Michael Jackson's lawyers is furious that one of his statements was edited to make it look like he was threatening other potential victims ("we will come down on you like a ton of bricks!") when really it was referring to another case (the wiretapping). Also some other arguments I faced from others about his 'grooming' behaviour, how all that behaviour was actually common by him towards everyone of all ages, gender, race etc so you couldn't claim it as grooming.
It was quite good as she listened to a lot of what I had to say and it sounds like was siding with me, I brought up the "Happy birthday" tape at one point and she agreed that it was weird, but didn't actually prove anything. I argued it just hurt them more because evidently they're trying to turn something innocent and even unrelated into something sinister. I remember she also said it was really weird he kept those rings, and I agreed especially as it wasn’t actually evidence of anything. Actual evidence (eg a photo or video), I would understand.
We ended up talking and deviating to other cases, and just talked in general about sexual assault allegations. I'm really glad that she said (and agreed with me) that it's so extremely important that we listen to people when they speak up, but that we also give those accused the chance to defend themselves, how we live in a society that is built on the concept of innocent until proven guilty. We talked about a more local case where someone she knew got accused, and how, regardless of his guilt or not, people were besmirching his name before he had the chance to be heard in court.
It was a really great talk actually, and she hasn't finished the documentary yet but I like to think I really changed her perspective on it. Put me in a good mood actually, just because she clearly hadn't fallen for any media bullshit that's been the focus these past couple weeks  |
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Post by dancingmjsdream on Mar 20, 2019 7:54:49 GMT
How are people dealing with nasty comments? Honestly, I've had a few now. I never thought in my life I'd ever be called a "paedophile apologist." It gets me down at times. I get that a lot as well. Seriously, it usually comes up once the person doesn't have convincing arguments anymore and they then tend to rely on personal insults. Don't let them bother you with that bullshit. You cannot be an apologist if you don't believe the claims |
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Post by Liberian Girl on Mar 20, 2019 9:07:03 GMT
How are people dealing with nasty comments? Honestly, I've had a few now. I never thought in my life I'd ever be called a "paedophile apologist." It gets me down at times. I get that a lot as well. Seriously, it usually comes up once the person doesn't have convincing arguments anymore and they then tend to rely on personal insults. Don't let them bother you with that bullshit. You cannot be an apologist if you don't believe the claims So true Thank you. |
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Post by kaeleah on Mar 24, 2019 22:28:05 GMT
I got a message on FB about how much it hurt the person I unfriended due to accusing me of being a victim-blamer over not believing MJ's accusers, and while I'm sorry if I hurt her, she's a very opinionated person whose friendship caused me more emotional/mental harm than good over the years. I'm a very opinionated and passionate person too, so it was very hard for us to agree to disagree over things.
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Post by MattyJam on Mar 26, 2019 11:18:26 GMT
I had a horrible dream about this whole situation last night. An old friend who was an MJ fan who I haven't seen or heard from in years got in touch and was crying because she believed the allegations. I was trying to talk her round and then went online and saw that two other people had come forward with allegations.
It was a horrible nightmare, and I think it just speaks to the despair I feel at times about this situation. I still don't think the estate have done enough to counter this or deter other opportunists from coming forward. I've given them the benefit of the doubt until now, holding out that they were biding their time etc, but I'm starting to worry they have no game plan at all.
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Post by HIStoric on Mar 26, 2019 11:31:20 GMT
I would not get concerned about fake videos just yet. A big use for them is pornography atm (aka getting your favourite celebrity face over a random porn actresses' face), but even then they're hard to do properly and extremely resource intensive. Takes a good while to do them.
I would not worry about them for a while for a few good reasons: 1. By the time these become common place, it will (naturally) become more common place for people to question the validity of those videos. People naturally do it for photos now, especially since Photoshop has become mainstream and widely available to consumers. 2. If such a video exists, realistically it would've been found by now. Law enforcement searched MJ's belongings with a fine tooth comb, if there was a video that still existed, they would've found it absolutely. Where would it be kept if it existed that the FBI couldn't find? Why on earth would that person hide it from law enforcement, given the definitive proof it is?
3. You still need an actual video of a child being abused in the first place, which is obviously illegal in many ways for many reasons. The adult in the video would also need to be of similar body shape and hairstyle to MJ as deepfaking is just replacing the face.
It's going to get easier as times goes on, but as it gets easier, people will question the validity more.
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Post by HIStoric on Mar 26, 2019 11:33:16 GMT
I still don't think the estate have done enough to counter this or deter other opportunists from coming forward. I've given them the benefit of the doubt until now, holding out that they were biding their time etc, but I'm starting to worry they have no game plan at all. They have a Facebook page with over 70,000,000 followers and some how don't even utilise it? One post back in January about MJ getting HBO big figures in the early 90s barely counts anymore. I have to remain hopeful too. There's nothing I really can do. I'm also fearful of any more accusers coming forward. It's already seriously bad for MJ as it is... |
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Post by MattyJam on Mar 26, 2019 11:33:26 GMT
I also want to add that I feel MJs estate need to start publicly exposing and undermining the credibility of these false accusers. This is the only way to deter other opportunists from coming forward. The whole "accusers are too scared to come forward" line is a joke. It's open season out there and anybody wishing to make a claim against MJ now would be welcomed with open arms by the media and many of the public. What's stopping them?
The estate are playing with fire by taking such a relaxed approach to this whole thing.
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Post by HIStoric on Mar 26, 2019 11:40:11 GMT
I also want to add that I feel MJs estate need to start publicly exposing and undermining the credibility of these false accusers. This is the only way to deter other opportunists from coming forward. The whole "accusers are too scared to come forward" line is a joke. It's open season out there and anybody wishing to make a claim against MJ now would be welcomed with open arms by the media and many of the public. What's stopping them? The estate are playing with fire by taking such a relaxed approach to this whole thing. It's funny, this lady at work was like to me "The Jackson Estate is actively silencing the victims!!!11!" and I'm like "The fuck? What exactly are the Estate doing to do that? This is getting all the attention in the media right now! They haven't released a press release in a good 3 weeks [accurate at the time] and they haven't even been posting responses to their social media! There is no massive 'Jackson machine'!, they're refusing to pay them off, they're barely doing anything publicly and in fact that's even getting criticizing from those who believe in Jackson's innocence!". |
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Post by SmoothGangsta on Mar 26, 2019 12:35:10 GMT
I also want to add that I feel MJs estate need to start publicly exposing and undermining the credibility of these false accusers. This is the only way to deter other opportunists from coming forward. The whole "accusers are too scared to come forward" line is a joke. It's open season out there and anybody wishing to make a claim against MJ now would be welcomed with open arms by the media and many of the public. What's stopping them? The estate are playing with fire by taking such a relaxed approach to this whole thing. I keep trying to have faith that they actually care about mj but they're not really showing it. It's looking like as long as he keeps making then money they are not bothered. I understand they're suing hbo but that is for money as well. As you said they are not going far enough. |
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