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Post by respect77 on Apr 16, 2019 2:54:40 GMT
People who are shown clear evidence of Robson and Safechuck not being credible and jsut dismiss it with "they are credible" or "you don't know anything about abuse victims or how they act" properly melt my brain. I wish these kind of people will taste their own medicine one day. Be falsely accused of something and then see if they will think their accuser telling blatant lies is something they would excuse. I feel like society can't be on a common sense track about anything. It has to be some sort of extremists view all the time. For a long time sexual abuse victims walking into the police weren't taken seriously or were blamed themselves, but now society tries to compensate that by being on the other exteme: uncritically believeling everything and excuse even the most blatant lies as if sex abuse accusers are some sort of holy cows. I'm sorry but trauma doesn't explain everything. Not to mention these two don't even claim they have been traumatized. They claim they were in love and enjoyed the sex. They want to have it both ways. |
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Post by pg13 on Apr 16, 2019 12:22:29 GMT
Yeah I see it on twitter but on other forums I'm on as well. I just don't understand how people can't see how non credible these guys are. They will make any excuse to believe them. Simply because they want to be ignorant. It's called Deliberate Ignorance Fallacy. |
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Post by SmoothGangsta on Apr 18, 2019 16:44:38 GMT
Anyone else noticed that people who have watched the documentary and just believed them always ask you to provide links for what you're saying as if they are incapable of looking the information up.
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Post by respect77 on Apr 18, 2019 16:51:32 GMT
Anyone else noticed that people who have watched the documentary and just believed them always ask you to provide links for what you're saying as if they are incapable of looking the information up. And then they aren't reading anything, just keep parroting "believe the ViCtimZ!" |
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Post by russtcb on Apr 18, 2019 17:34:47 GMT
This might be a "burying my head in the sand" way to go about things but I've found it best to just not look at places that I know will irritate me. I follow very few people on social media and I don't go looking where I know people will be saying bad things about Michael.
I help run a huge forum that's dedicated to another band and I don't even look in the LN thread on that board. The owner of the forum (who I am friends with IRL) is absolutely certain that Michael is guilty and nothing is going to change his mind. So I just plain stopped looking at the thread because I know I'll get roped in.
Again, might not be the best strategy but it works for me. It literally hurts my heart when I say people say these awful things about him, so it helps me to just not look.
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Post by SmoothGangsta on Apr 18, 2019 17:54:08 GMT
This might be a "burying my head in the sand" way to go about things but I've found it best to just not look at places that I know will irritate me. I follow very few people on social media and I don't go looking where I know people will be saying bad things about Michael. I help run a huge forum that's dedicated to another band and I don't even look in the LN thread on that board. The owner of the forum (who I am friends with IRL) is absolutely certain that Michael is guilty and nothing is going to change his mind. So I just plain stopped looking at the thread because I know I'll get roped in. Again, might not be the best strategy but it works for me. It literally hurts my heart when I say people say these awful things about him, so it helps me to just not look. I have been posting in that thread but I've realised that it's a pretty ignorant place mostly when it comes to MJ so I am no longer in that particular thread hahaha. I'm mostly on twitter and I only usually see positive mj stuff on there which could easily just be because of who and what I follow but still. Usually when I see negative stuff it is just people replying with facts so I see it as result of that. |
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Post by SmoothGangsta on Jun 15, 2019 13:30:55 GMT
Getting really annoyed at the media's total inability to research anything at all. People are payed to do this shit and they just put no effort into it at all.
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Post by Vega on Jun 15, 2019 13:49:42 GMT
Getting really annoyed at the media's total inability to research anything at all. People are payed to do this shit and they just put no effort into it at all. Did something new happen? Or just general annoyance? |
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Post by respect77 on Jun 15, 2019 15:50:21 GMT
I think there's very little quality journalism left. And it's not just the MJ case, but it's a good case study. Everything is about getting those clicks and for that you don't need quality articles (most people don't read anything that's more than a paragraph anyway), you only need a sensationalist headline.
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Post by amaya on Jun 16, 2019 8:00:22 GMT
Getting really annoyed at the media's total inability to research anything at all. People are payed to do this shit and they just put no effort into it at all. Did something new happen? Or just general annoyance? Some new article from Vanity Fair about documentaries inspiring change came out. LN was mentioned, but of course they made no mention of all the evidence against it. They even reported that Liam McEwen's rebuttal video was done by the estate which is completely 100% untrue. |
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Post by respect77 on Jun 16, 2019 9:39:36 GMT
Did something new happen? Or just general annoyance? Some new article from Vanity Fair about documentaries inspiring change came out. LN was mentioned, but of course they made no mention of all the evidence against it. They even reported that Liam McEwen's rebuttal video was done by the estate which is completely 100% untrue.
You mean this Vanity Fair, that i mentioned here?
How surprising.
I wonder what "change" LN exactly inspires? People will not let their children from now on hang out with wealthy celebrities, because otherwise that happens so often? Or will look at everyone with suspicion who is kind to their children?
IMO the whole narrative that it is an important piece in fighting child sexual abuse is just ridiculous. The media need to be honest to themselves that the hype is all about the accused being MJ, nothing else. If these men were sitting down talking about having been abused by their uncle they wouldn't have made it past YouTube videos, let alone getting a 4 hours film on HBO. Anyone saying otherwise is lying to themselves. It is not about important social issues, it is about the media's and the public's obsession with tearing down celebrities, but especially MJ.
And I didn't even yet get to the part that the story is false. And as such it eventually harms the fight against CSA, not helps it.
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Post by HIStoric on Jun 16, 2019 10:05:18 GMT
I wonder what "change" LN exactly inspires? People will not let their children from now on hang out with wealthy celebrities, because otherwise that happens so often? Or will look at everyone with suspicion who is kind to their children? I haven't read the Vanity Fair article (and I don't want to) but I think what they mean is that LN is going to inspire other victims to speak out against their abusers, even if they are in powerful positions, instead of possibly keeping silent - which was the biggest change #MeToo brought about. |
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Post by respect77 on Jun 16, 2019 11:30:49 GMT
I wonder what "change" LN exactly inspires? People will not let their children from now on hang out with wealthy celebrities, because otherwise that happens so often? Or will look at everyone with suspicion who is kind to their children? I haven't read the Vanity Fair article (and I don't want to) but I think what they mean is that LN is going to inspire other victims to speak out against their abusers, even if they are in powerful positions, instead of possibly keeping silent - which was the biggest change #MeToo brought about. You just said it in this post: #Metoo already brought that about. Not LN. I would also dispute MJ was really powerful. And epecially not as a dead man unable to defend himself. Nothing brave about accusing him under the circumstances of this case. If anything LN leaves an extremely bad taste behind and brings out everything that is wrong with #metoo. |
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Post by HIStoric on Jun 16, 2019 12:36:12 GMT
I haven't read the Vanity Fair article (and I don't want to) but I think what they mean is that LN is going to inspire other victims to speak out against their abusers, even if they are in powerful positions, instead of possibly keeping silent - which was the biggest change #MeToo brought about. You just said it in this post: #Metoo already brought that about. Not LN. I would also dispute MJ was really powerful. And epecially not as a dead man unable to defend himself. Nothing brave about accusing him under the circumstances of this case. If anything LN leaves an extremely bad taste behind and brings out everything that is wrong with #metoo. Sure, but #MeToo is not the be-all end-all. There are still people who struggle. Another way it inspires change is that it's focusing on male-on-male sexual assault, which I think I've read before there's an additional stigma to that or something? All of these need to be looked at from the perception of someone who believes in the documentary. You and I both know the whole backstory and know that what Robson or Safechuck are doing is anything but brave... but to those who don't know any better and believe them? Yeah they are very much seen as brave.
And as for the power thing, he was if he wanted to be. We've all seen the crazy martyr-like effects he has on people by simply being remotely in their presence, the millions of fans who would go to the end of the earth to defend him, his extraordinary wealth and the fact that his music has had an astronomical impact on pop culture that you simply cannot 'cancel' him. All of this does give him power. Yes, he absolutely had powerful forces against him that I know you're thinking of (racism, heavy media bias, him now being dead, probably some others that I can't think of right now) which complicates the matter and make it less straight forward, but I think if he really did want to molest children, he could've done it and possibly get away with it. 'Played the game', engaged in many shady techniques to keep it under wraps too and intimidate his victims into keeping their mouths shut. Only thing with MJ is that he never had to engage in any of these techniques because he was innocent and had nothing to hide. Michael was very open and transparent about clearing his name.
Going back to seeing it from the perspective of someone who believes in the documentary, even if you personally want to dispute how powerful Michael really is, the people who believe in the accusations are absolutely going to see Michael Jackson as a powerful figure. A lot of people interpret the Chandler settlement as an example of his power because he gave the Chandlers tens of millions of dollars to make them drop the case and effectively get himself off scot-free, something most people could not do if accused of the same crimes. We might know this isn't the case, but they don't.
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Post by HIStoric on Jun 16, 2019 13:25:01 GMT
This might be a "burying my head in the sand" way to go about things but I've found it best to just not look at places that I know will irritate me. I follow very few people on social media and I don't go looking where I know people will be saying bad things about Michael. Yeah. I got sick of the whole drama a month or two back, I found it actually having a detrimental effect on me because I kept thinking about it every time MJ's music came on, and therefore it would annoy me and ruin the experience. At some point I just went "fuck this, I'm over it", unfollowed almost every MJ-related account I follow (the few I still follow have either never mentioned it, or almost never do). I simultaneously took a small break from this board and once I came back some weeks later, I stopped going into the allegation-related threads as much as I used to. This thread here tonight is the first time in months I've posted in one of them. I also don't look up MJ on social media as much. I figure if something big does happen (positive or negative), I'll hear about it anyway. |
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