TonyR
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Post by TonyR on Feb 14, 2019 11:18:32 GMT
All this just because a psychopath didn't get the job he wanted. You know what amazes me, and maybe it shouldn't, but I always like to see the good in people and I can't get my head around how someone can be this evil. Yes I know people murder, rape etc. all the time and horrific things happen, but this seems on a whole new level. How can someone tell these lies about a former friend consistently, especially as that person's kids are around to hear it? With this level of detail and do it over & over again. Just for money, fame, notoriety? Surely he's not sleeping at night.
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respect77
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Post by respect77 on Feb 14, 2019 11:27:31 GMT
I think he's a sociopath, so he's sleeping pretty well at night. He probably has other mental issues as well.
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Post by Liberian Girl on Feb 14, 2019 11:41:30 GMT
What's surprising me about these MJ allegations & other famous people's cases I've read about, is the amount of people who seem to want to rest their perceived failures onto these people they call abusers. Really?? Notice they are all B list celebs (Or Z list)? And what happened to taking responsibly for their own careers and disappointments? They desperately cling to others to blame for them not getting what they want. Very sad and pathetic.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 11:54:01 GMT
I think he's a sociopath, so he's sleeping pretty well at night. He probably has other mental issues as well. 100% what I think. I know people who have lied (albeit about much less matters) who have absolutely believed their own bullshit. I also think he is both a sociopath and has mental issues. But hey, you never know his performance may sway me yet ha!
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Post by Cloudbuster on Feb 14, 2019 11:54:23 GMT
All this just because a psychopath didn't get the job he wanted. You know what amazes me, and maybe it shouldn't, but I always like to see the good in people and I can't get my head around how someone can be this evil. Yes I know people murder, rape etc. all the time and horrific things happen, but this seems on a whole new level. How can someone tell these lies about a former friend consistently, especially as that person's kids are around to hear it? With this level of detail and do it over & over again. Just for money, fame, notoriety? Surely he's not sleeping at night. Nah man, he's sleeping soundly. People as twisted as him always do. Just look at how easily and blatantly he lies, and how he's screwed numerous people over. He clearly lacks a conscience. He's doing fine.
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Post by russtcb on Feb 14, 2019 12:15:24 GMT
On the psychopath / sociopath thing; I was just thinking along those lines yesterday. By all accounts from people who spent time with him, Michael was one of the nicest, most gentle souls. I cannot even imagine turning on him in the way Wade has, all in the name of money & fame.
Psycho or socio....I'd HAVE to lean towards socio just because I couldn't imagine living with the real memories he has of Michael after having turned on him and said such vile things.
Either way, it's just so sad on so many levels. My wife and I were talking about it at dinner last night and she said "I really haven't heard too much about it, so maybe the worst is over". I told her that it hasn't aired on HBO yet and I told her some of the other shady things going on currently, leading up to the "documentary EVERYONE MUST WATCH!".
I told her I really think it's going to get much worse before it gets better. I actually told her that I think I'm going to have to force myself to be really limited in my social media intake during March and possibly April over this. I just can't bring myself to engage with what will certainly be a massively uninformed public passing judgement on something / someone they essentially know NOTHING about because a bunch of "celebrities" and online articles told them what to think.
There's been so much to be mad about since MJ passed. Well, since well before that really. I've tried so hard to turn the other cheek and just spread the positive things about him, but this current issue feels like it's just going to be too much for me to take on.
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Post by danm on Feb 14, 2019 19:58:12 GMT
Matt Lucas?! Of Little Britain? Is he meant to somehow be an influencer or something? What has he done of note in the last 6 or 7 years?
End of the day, your average Joe (like Matt Lucas) have no knowledge of the background to this or the facts. They will believe what they see at face value. That is what is so damaging about this sort of documentary.
Nothing we can do except spread the facts where we can and counter peoples comments with the truth.
As long as the Estate use their platform to get the truth out there to a wider audience.....
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Post by danm on Feb 14, 2019 21:24:49 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 21:30:31 GMT
Yes, decent. That last paragraph really called them out, and funny enough neither the HBO or C4 comments after receiving these letters say "we firmly believe the two victims" only saying "it is powerful, people can judge themselves".
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Post by danm on Feb 14, 2019 21:39:30 GMT
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Post by danm on Feb 14, 2019 21:42:46 GMT
Already pitching his services a day after MJ died...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 21:50:46 GMT
Already pitching his services a day after MJ died... Are more things being leaked? I wasn't paying much attention in 13. I kinda pretended it wasn't happening because it seemed so far fetchd
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Post by ShadowDeeps on Feb 15, 2019 4:53:02 GMT
My sentiments are somewhat similar to that of Russg’s. It’s not that the documentary or its rave reviews have me feeling precarious, but “convincing” the public at large, or rather non-fans, of the misinformation conveyed in the movie, will take more than a deluge of facts that were conveniently omitted from the film. Note that those who have spoken in favor of Leaving Neverland do so not because it is “accurate” or “informative”, but because it’s “powerful” and “well crafted”. It maximizes the emotional response of the audience so as to ensure those who watch the film (especially those uninformed) will process it emotionally rather than logically. This is why the movie is so shockingly graphic and descriptive after the first 30-45 minutes, and this is also why (IIRC) violinists were used during the screenings to accompany the movie’s already dejecting atmosphere. It’s to hold sway over the emotions of the audience. It’s to leave the viewer so indelibly grief stricken that there’s no way someone could emerge from the theater without sympathizing with Wade and James and condemning MJ to be a criminal of heinous proportions. In short, LN goes for the heartstrings and that’s why the movie needs to be rebutted with more than just facts. Something drastic would have to happen to shake people out of the belief seemingly confirmed or enforced by LN. As stated before me, it’s often underestimated just how potent belief can be. People will still believe all sorts of illogical and incoherent stories, regardless of how factual they are. This is because such stories speak to something more profound and base than cognitive functions and that’s human emotion. I honestly worry that whatever the Estate and Taj have in the works, will overaccentuate facts and as a result will end up underwhelming and unsuccessful.
Of course false allegations can permanently destroy one’s career or even the will for those accused to live. But sadly, with MJ being gone nearly a decade, the worst LN can do is lay ruin to his legacy, indefinitely.
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respect77
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Post by respect77 on Feb 15, 2019 5:13:56 GMT
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respect77
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Post by respect77 on Feb 15, 2019 5:22:39 GMT
My sentiments are somewhat similar to that of Russg’s. It’s not that the documentary or its rave reviews have me feeling precarious, but “convincing” the public at large, or rather non-fans, of the misinformation conveyed in the movie, will take more than a deluge of facts that were conveniently omitted from the film. Note that those who have spoken in favor of Leaving Neverland do so not because it is “accurate” or “informative”, but because it’s “powerful” and “well crafted”. It maximizes the emotional response of the audience so as to ensure those who watch the film (especially those uninformed) will process it emotionally rather than logically. This is why the movie is so shockingly graphic and descriptive after the first 30-45 minutes, and this is also why (IIRC) violinists were used during the screenings to accompany the movie’s already dejecting atmosphere. It’s to hold sway over the emotions of the audience. It’s to leave the viewer so indelibly grief stricken that there’s no way someone could emerge from the theater without sympathizing with Wade and James and condemning MJ to be a criminal of heinous proportions. In short, LN goes for the heartstrings and that’s why the movie needs to be rebutted with more than just facts. Something drastic would have to happen to shake people out of the belief seemingly confirmed or enforced by LN. As stated before me, it’s often underestimated just how potent belief can be. People will still believe all sorts of illogical and incoherent stories, regardless of how factual they are. This is because such stories speak to something more profound and base than cognitive functions and that’s human emotion. I honestly worry that whatever the Estate and Taj have in the works, will overaccentuate facts and as a result will end up underwhelming and unsuccessful. Of course false allegations can permanently destroy one’s career or even the will for those accused to live. But sadly, with MJ being gone nearly a decade, the worst LN can do is lay ruin to his legacy, indefinitely.
I think it has to be BOTH showing the lies and inconsistencies in their claims and going for the heartstrings. The latter is done by showing MJ's true personality through the accounts of people who knew him - preferably by people who knew him as kids, like Brett and Mac etc. To show that what MJ was not grooming but he was generous like that with everyone. To show that those kind, inspirational words on those faxes were just how kind and inspirational he was with everyone etc. With that you refute the narrative in the film, but also go for the heartstrings by representing MJ as the kind, considerate, generous human being that he really was. It is not irrelevant in this context, as this "documentary" uses exactly MJ's generosity and twists it into something else.
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