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Post by mjjfan810 on Feb 15, 2019 13:22:54 GMT
Never heard of this leif person. But it will certainly be twisted. I highly doubt mj,growing up around his bros didnt know what it was Yeah, Janet said MJ taught her about the birds and the bees. So how would he not know? Lol. Leif Garrett is a 70s teen idol. Since then he's been in and out of rehab all his life. I don't think anyone would care about a book by him in 2019 if he didn't drop some hooks like this about more relevant celebrities like MJ. If they are dead, it's even better as they can't say anything. Even if it was true, there was only three years between them agewise, and I'm sure plenty of men in their late teens/early 20s have discussed this subject together. But every aspect of MJs private life and every private conversation he ever had seems to be used later down the line for an angle and a headline.
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Post by pg13 on Feb 15, 2019 13:25:47 GMT
Something else we have to consider here - these are not new abuse claims. They were made public 6 years ago. So why is it only causing such a splash now? Because with the help of Dan Reed, they’ve made a graphic documentary that is designed to shock and horrify people. Yet these disgusting claims have been in the public domain for many years, however didn’t get that much attention in the media. So why didn’t this get much attention before now? Largely, in my opinion, because Wade and Safechuck’s claims were so unbelievable and because they’d changed their stories whilst at the same time suing his Estate for money. Most people watching LN won’t realise that fact, but it should continually be spelt out to them - they had always denied abuse, with Wade in particular effusively praising and lauding Jackson before and after his death. He wanted to work on MJ projects until a year before his supposed realisation. He then changed his story and filed a creditors claim and lawsuit seeking significant monetary damages. To most rational people, all of the above would cast serious doubt on their allegations. Which is why the facts DO matter. No one here and no one connected with the Jackson family or the Estate can prove a negative, that it didn’t happen. Yes, we can highlight MJ’s acts of generosity, his kind hearted nature etc etc and have the likes of Brett Barnes and Mac defend him, but ultimately that won’t do too much. People could easily say, “it doesn’t matter, because he could still have abused Wade and Jimmy”. That’s why their own credibilities have to be destroyed. That can only be done through facts. That's why I'm saying do BOTH. Neither is as powerful in itself as the two parts (facts, heartstrings) are together. Amen! Telling most fans that actually falls on deaf ears, pun intended! There's a reason why special forces such as the SAS actually do both things. It's also the central message of Sun Tzu's Art of War which is over 2,500 years old. Highlight facts of the case and highlight things that have emotional resonance such as the fear of the accusation which can destroy anyone. Perhaps even undermine such messages as "Empowerment through empathy" which leads us right back to the power of the accusation and real life false allegations being destructive. There's many avenues. "Be like water" - it will find the weakness in any substance in order to crack it, for example. Everything in life has its own strengths and weaknesses. If only the fans could all be strategic....
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Post by pg13 on Feb 15, 2019 13:29:16 GMT
Apparently the bus thing will happen because Chinese fans donated much of the amount. It will accomplish nothing positive, TBH but giving publicity to this abomination. As for Leif Garrett, I don't think he's reliable either. He left a friend paraplegic because he was DUI of drugs. Yes, the bus ride around London will only backfire. Gung ho attitudes like that are usually a bad idea. You know there's a similar bus ride thing planned for Los Angeles? No doubt the Chinese will fund that too. And they're doing the "MJ is innocent" photos online as we speak too. Talk about the fans coming across as simplistic, childish people.
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Post by respect77 on Feb 15, 2019 13:31:52 GMT
The other side is going for the heartstrings with this crap and it, unfortunately, works.
Maybe it could be trumped by something on the other side that goes for that, but does more by also going for the reason.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 13:33:59 GMT
Apparently the bus thing will happen because Chinese fans donated much of the amount. It will accomplish nothing positive, TBH but giving publicity to this abomination. As for Leif Garrett, I don't think he's reliable either. He left a friend paraplegic because he was DUI of drugs. Yes, the bus ride around London will only backfire. Gung ho attitudes like that are usually a bad idea. You know there's a similar bus ride thing planned for Los Angeles? No doubt the Chinese will fund that too. And they're doing the "MJ is innocent" photos online as we speak too. Talk about the fans coming across as simplistic, childish people. I find it mad that I could raise 12 grand and put your face on a bus in London. I mean, surely there will be obstructions aside from the fee!?
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Post by Snow White on Feb 15, 2019 13:35:01 GMT
In case you don't remember seeing LG. Him and the true King of Rock 'N' Roll gave Michael and award at the AMAs in 1980 for Favorite Soul Album. His cuteness and how adorable he warms my heart! 😍
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Post by Snow White on Feb 15, 2019 13:46:34 GMT
Apparently the bus thing will happen because Chinese fans donated much of the amount. It will accomplish nothing positive, TBH but giving publicity to this abomination. As for Leif Garrett, I don't think he's reliable either. He left a friend paraplegic because he was DUI of drugs. Yes, the bus ride around London will only backfire. Gung ho attitudes like that are usually a bad idea. You know there's a similar bus ride thing planned for Los Angeles? No doubt the Chinese will fund that too. And they're doing the "MJ is innocent" photos online as we speak too. Talk about the fans coming across as simplistic, childish people. No idea if they plan to do that for Los Angeles, I left the group on Wednesday after 1,000+ undead whatsapp messages and it's not nice being in a place/group where they make you feel you're not wanted, if you know what I mean. Chinese fans would fund it too, no doubt. They're donating a good amount to Fan's gofundme docu too.
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Post by pg13 on Feb 15, 2019 14:04:37 GMT
Yes, the bus ride around London will only backfire. Gung ho attitudes like that are usually a bad idea. You know there's a similar bus ride thing planned for Los Angeles? No doubt the Chinese will fund that too. And they're doing the "MJ is innocent" photos online as we speak too. Talk about the fans coming across as simplistic, childish people. No idea if they plan to do that for Los Angeles, I left the group on Wednesday after 1,000+ undead whatsapp messages and it's not nice being in a place/group where they make you feel you're not wanted, if you know what I mean. Chinese fans would fund it too, no doubt. They're donating a good amount to Fan's gofundme docu too. They're doing it in the Netherlands too. www.gofundme.com/f/michael-jackson-innocent-campaign-nl
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Post by respect77 on Feb 15, 2019 14:25:16 GMT
They should rather donate all that money to Taj's documentary.
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Post by respect77 on Feb 15, 2019 14:38:31 GMT
Oh great. Not only airing it, but building a whole talk show around it. I have never seen such a concentrated global media effort to destroy a celebrity. I can't believe these evil, psychopathic bastards, Wade and James can destroy a 40 year career just like this.
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Post by pg13 on Feb 15, 2019 14:42:47 GMT
Then, the French will need to get organised. Protests won't work, so they'll need someone on the talk show to put forward the counter argument.
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Post by SoCav on Feb 15, 2019 15:41:59 GMT
The other side is going for the heartstrings with this crap and it, unfortunately, works. Maybe it could be trumped by something on the other side that goes for that, but does more by also going for the reason. I totally agree. I think a documentary series like the one Taj is planning would never work if all it does is factually discredit Robson, Safechuck, and the previous accusers. Of course that would be an essential part, and it may be enough on its own to get some people to change their minds (just because the facts make it so clear the accusers are not credible at all). But for many people that will not be enough. And it's not only because people are swayed more easily by feelings than facts. Many people also simply know nothing about MJ except his music and the twisted image the media have created of him over the years. Setting the facts straight about the accusations will not change that distorted perception of who he was, and therefore may not change their opinion of him. One of the things that makes this current media onslaught extra unfair is that Michael no longer has a voice. But they can give him one in a documentary series. In part by letting people like Brett and Macaulay share their experience with Michael, but also by using footage of Michael himself. There is so much footage that's even already publically available that can create a much more nuanced picture of who he really was. Remember how that recording that Murray illegally made of Michael even got people like Jane Velez-Mitchell, who had always been convinced of his guilt, to doubt herself? This is someone who was in the courtroom during the entire '05 trial. Even hearing how ridiculous the prosecution's case was firsthand did not make her doubt her beliefs, but one (very sad) recording of Michael sounding sincere did. That's why archive footage of MJ himself is so powerful and important.
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Post by danm on Feb 15, 2019 15:58:08 GMT
Something else we have to consider here - these are not new abuse claims. They were made public 6 years ago. So why is it only causing such a splash now? Because with the help of Dan Reed, they’ve made a graphic documentary that is designed to shock and horrify people. Yet these disgusting claims have been in the public domain for many years, however didn’t get that much attention in the media. So why didn’t this get much attention before now? Largely, in my opinion, because Wade and Safechuck’s claims were so unbelievable and because they’d changed their stories whilst at the same time suing his Estate for money. Most people watching LN won’t realise that fact, but it should continually be spelt out to them - they had always denied abuse, with Wade in particular effusively praising and lauding Jackson before and after his death. He wanted to work on MJ projects until a year before his supposed realisation. He then changed his story and filed a creditors claim and lawsuit seeking significant monetary damages. To most rational people, all of the above would cast serious doubt on their allegations. Which is why the facts DO matter. No one here and no one connected with the Jackson family or the Estate can prove a negative, that it didn’t happen. Yes, we can highlight MJ’s acts of generosity, his kind hearted nature etc etc and have the likes of Brett Barnes and Mac defend him, but ultimately that won’t do too much. People could easily say, “it doesn’t matter, because he could still have abused Wade and Jimmy”. That’s why their own credibilities have to be destroyed. That can only be done through facts. That's why I'm saying do BOTH. Neither is as powerful in itself as the two parts (facts, heartstrings) are together. I agree, my post was actually more directed at the one above yours that you had quoted. I do also think that changing the public's perception of MJ is more difficult. He has been in the public eye for 50 years. People have entrenched views on his as a person and as an artist. So I do agree that any rebuttal needs to focus on the man as well as the facts, however it needs to focus more on the facts. Discrediting Wade and James is easy, and easier than changing the public's perception of MJ. Many people have a very positive view of him, others think he was wacky but gifted, and others think he was a criminal. My concern with focussing too much on the man, is that people can rightly argue that he could have been a lovely person 90% of the time, but could have concealed a darker, more sinister side. It is true that not all pedophile's are violent rapists or depraved in every area of their lives. Some are perfectly normal (or nice) on the surface. So, counteracting these allegations with stories about how great MJ was as a person won't wash with a lot of people. If Wade and James are discredited by a concerted effort to reveal their lies, their history, their motives - that is what will start to cause significant doubt about their allegations in the minds of the general public.
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Post by kremlinshadow on Feb 15, 2019 16:04:11 GMT
They should rather donate all that money to Taj's documentary. Don't you think the rich millionaires within the family should be doing that? At least they are doing something, I don't think they should be slagged off the way they are here for actually getting their finger out. There is a lot of head-in-the-sand mentality on this board, as if this documentary is going to come and go un-noticed if we don't talk about it. The promo hasn't even started yet. Weinstein pre-trial is 7th March the day the 2nd half is aired, so be sure there will be lots and lots of adverts before this, everyone will 'have' to be talking about this from the night before!!!. Besides, Taj's documentary could just be all left in the dust after this airing. It'll take so long to put together it will be totally irrelevant by that time.
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Post by SoCav on Feb 15, 2019 16:10:35 GMT
My concern with focussing too much on the man, is that people can rightly argue that he could have been a lovely person 90% of the time, but could have concealed a darker, more sinister side. It is true that not all pedophile's are violent rapists or depraved in every area of their lives. Some are perfectly normal (or nice) on the surface. So, counteracting these allegations with stories about how great MJ was as a person won't wash with a lot of people. Yeah, they should make sure that the positive stories about MJ are not framed as hard evidence against the allegations, for the reason you said. However, if they present them as stories that help in painting a genuine picture of who he was, and do this alongside a complete, factual rebuttal of all the allegations, then I think they can only help.
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