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Post by SoCav on Sept 7, 2017 0:08:29 GMT
^ Bad25 already taught them not to focus on hard core fans, to be honest. Bad 25 was badly promoted and they tried to cater both to hardcore fans (VHS-quality concert, unreleased songs) and casuals (remixes, godawful Pepsi summer beats event) at the same time, as a result not fully satisfying either . Personally, I did enjoy that release a lot despite its flaws. This latest release is of no interest to me but I don't have a problem with it (though admittedly the inclusion of the Xscape remix over the original is a tad annoying). If it gets some people into MJ than great and if some fans enjoy it as a collectors' item, cool. A number of fans seem to be pissed off about it. I think this is down to frustration about the fact that the Estate simply does next to nothing to cater to hardcore fans - if they did, I doubt anyone would care about the umpteenth compilation album. I know many fans who have simply drifted away from the MJ world after being consistently disappointed by the posthumous releases. Alienating the hardcore fanbase is never a good idea...
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Post by aazzaabb on Sept 7, 2017 2:49:24 GMT
I'm just going to repost my thoughts on this release here which I posted on MJJC.
Fans and people are free to feel however they want of course, but it's not like we were all expecting any type of audio release a few days ago and it turned out to be this. So why are fans so up in arms about something that wasn't even expected? If they release another posthumous album by 2019 that's 3 collections of new material within a decade -4 if you factor in Bad25- which is pretty much the same as MJ released during his career. Go back to the 7 originals on Michael, revist Bad25, revisit Xscape, revisit Immortal! All of those came within the first 5 or 6 years of his posthumous career!!! This is a stop-gap album and gives some attention to some great tracks like Threatened. I really, really don't see how this release is so offensive. This is part of a campaign which includes Thriller 3D and the animated special, that is all.
We're getting more MJ product now than ever before.
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Post by HIStoric on Sept 7, 2017 3:29:38 GMT
A number of fans seem to be pissed off about it. I think this is down to frustration about the fact that the Estate simply does next to nothing to cater to hardcore fans - if they did, I doubt anyone would care about the umpteenth compilation album. I know many fans who have simply drifted away from the MJ world after being consistently disappointed by the posthumous releases. Alienating the hardcore fanbase is never a good idea... I disagree that they do nothing to cater to hardcore fans. In fact almost every posthumous project has had material that is appealing to hardcore fans. Copy and pasting off my MJJC post... -This Is It: 2 hours of Michael Jackson rehearsals + hours of great special features on the home release -This Is It CD: Unreleased song (2 mixes of it!) + a handful of unreleased demos + spoken poem by Michael -Vision: All of his short films in one place + 1 unreleased/unfinished short film -Michael: 6 new Michael Jackson songs -Immortal: A new way to experience his music, some of these tracks offer unreleased material (i.e. TDCAU choir) -Bad 25: 6 completely new songs, unreleased version of IJCSLY, god knows how much new footage on the Bad 25 doco, an unreleased concert on DVD... -Xscape: 8 brand new songs. Sure a number of these were already leaked, but not every hardcore fan has heard them. We gained 9 new remixes through this, which essentially made the songs 'new' for me at least... -OTW: A new doco which featured a some new footage. As you can see just about every project has offered something worthwhile to hardcore fans of Michael. No way have they been neglecting the older fan base.
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Post by respect77 on Sept 7, 2017 4:25:35 GMT
^ Bad25 already taught them not to focus on hard core fans, to be honest. Bad 25 was badly promoted and they tried to cater both to hardcore fans (VHS-quality concert, unreleased songs) and casuals (remixes, godawful Pepsi summer beats event) at the same time, as a result not fully satisfying either . Personally, I did enjoy that release a lot despite its flaws. This latest release is of no interest to me but I don't have a problem with it (though admittedly the inclusion of the Xscape remix over the original is a tad annoying). If it gets some people into MJ than great and if some fans enjoy it as a collectors' item, cool. A number of fans seem to be pissed off about it. I think this is down to frustration about the fact that the Estate simply does next to nothing to cater to hardcore fans - if they did, I doubt anyone would care about the umpteenth compilation album. I know many fans who have simply drifted away from the MJ world after being consistently disappointed by the posthumous releases. Alienating the hardcore fanbase is never a good idea... A week ago we didn't even know something was even coming, but some act like they have been promised something and stabbed in the back or heavily insulted. To me that's what's alienating and makes me wanna quit being active on Internet forums. I'm starting to be tired of the constant whining and negativity in the MJ fandom. Fandom should be fun but listening to people constantly moaning, bitching and being entitled over things that they haven't even been promised is no fun. The MJ fandom became very negative and I know fans who quit for that reason rather than anything the Estate has done. I know the complainers feel it is them who are being restricted in their free speech when people tell them to cut the drama, but it is a two-way street. It is not really the complaints (I haven't had any problem with anyone's opinion here), it is the extremist, overdramatic complaints. I'm not saying negative opinions about a project shouldn't be expressed, I'm talking about the extreme negativity, throwing around words like "pathetic" or how this supposedly "kills MJs legacy". How? At worst it just won't generate any interest, but how is releasing MJs own music killing his legacy? Or "the Estate/Sony just wants to make money" - as if it is a bad and unheard of thing if a business entity wants to make money. Maybe in communist North Korea. LOL. Those are the drama queens I'm tired of reading. I think they are doing more damage to MJs legacy than the people they accuse of it as they suck the fun out of visiting MJ communities. This project at worst just won't interest you or anyone, but I can't see how it's so insulting that it would warrant these type of responses. Frankly, IMO it just became very fashionable to bash any release in the MJ fandom in extreme terms and IMO this is actually a stance by MJ fans which is very harmful to MJ's legacy. Someone who is a casual fan visiting MJs FB will see comments how this is so bad that fans call it "pathetic" and accuse it of "killing MJs legacy" and they may believe this release is really SO bad. It isn't. In fact, for years fans have been complaining about how the focus is always only on Billie Jean, Beat It etc. - now we will have a compliation with lesser known songs and if it will bring some attention on hidden gems like Threatened or Heartbreak Hotel I won't complain. Whether it is worth for me to buy it as a hard core fan, remains to be seen (though I am tempted because that vinyl looks cool LOL), but I certainly won't trash it. Also, I feel complainers always jump the gun. This album seems like a part of a bigger campain with a focus on MJ's horror themed releases. There will be the animated movie, Thriller 3D and Branca talked about two more upcoming announcments (perhaps Ghosts?) - so let's see the whole context unfold before trashing it.
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Post by MattyJam on Sept 7, 2017 7:05:05 GMT
Bad 25 was badly promoted and they tried to cater both to hardcore fans (VHS-quality concert, unreleased songs) and casuals (remixes, godawful Pepsi summer beats event) at the same time, as a result not fully satisfying either . Personally, I did enjoy that release a lot despite its flaws. This latest release is of no interest to me but I don't have a problem with it (though admittedly the inclusion of the Xscape remix over the original is a tad annoying). If it gets some people into MJ than great and if some fans enjoy it as a collectors' item, cool. A number of fans seem to be pissed off about it. I think this is down to frustration about the fact that the Estate simply does next to nothing to cater to hardcore fans - if they did, I doubt anyone would care about the umpteenth compilation album. I know many fans who have simply drifted away from the MJ world after being consistently disappointed by the posthumous releases. Alienating the hardcore fanbase is never a good idea... A week ago we didn't even know something was even coming, but some act like they have been promised something and stabbed in the back or heavily insulted. To me that's what's alienating and makes me wanna quit being active on Internet forums. I'm starting to be tired of the constant whining and negativity in the MJ fandom. Fandom should be fun but listening to people constantly moaning, bitching and being entitled over things that they haven't even been promised is no fun. The MJ fandom became very negative and I know fans who quit for that reason rather than anything the Estate has done. I know the complainers feel it is them who are being restricted in their free speech when people tell them to cut the drama, but it is a two-way street. It is not really the complaints (I haven't had any problem with anyone's opinion here), it is the extremist, overdramatic complaints. I'm not saying negative opinions about a project shouldn't be expressed, I'm talking about the extreme negativity, throwing around words like "pathetic" or how this supposedly "kills MJs legacy". How? At worst it just won't generate any interest, but how is releasing MJs own music killing his legacy? Or "the Estate/Sony just wants to make money" - as if it is a bad and unheard of thing if a business entity wants to make money. Maybe in communist North Korea. LOL. Those are the drama queens I'm tired of reading. I think they are doing more damage to MJs legacy than the people they accuse of it as they suck the fun out of visiting MJ communities. This project at worst just won't interest you or anyone, but I can't see how it's so insulting that it would warrant these type of responses. Frankly, IMO it just became very fashionable to bash any release in the MJ fandom in extreme terms and IMO this is actually a stance by MJ fans which is very harmful to MJ's legacy. Someone who is a casual fan visiting MJs FB will see comments how this is so bad that fans call it "pathetic" and accuse it of "killing MJs legacy" and they may believe this release is really SO bad. It isn't. In fact, for years fans have been complaining about how the focus is always only on Billie Jean, Beat It etc. - now we will have a compliation with lesser known songs and if it will bring some attention on hidden gems like Threatened or Heartbreak Hotel I won't complain. Whether it is worth for me to buy it as a hard core fan, remains to be seen (though I am tempted because that vinyl looks cool LOL), but I certainly won't trash it. Also, I feel complainers always jump the gun. This album seems like a part of a bigger campain with a focus on MJ's horror themed releases. There will be the animated movie, Thriller 3D and Branca talked about two more upcoming announcments (perhaps Ghosts?) - so let's see the whole context unfold before trashing it. I think part of the issue I have with this release is that it just feels a bit pointless and like a lazily thrown together cash-in. The overriding concept and theme feels a bit loose and not very well thought out. The tracklisting doesn't look particularly inspired either. I don't think for one second that this release or any posthumous release for that matter could be harmful to MJ's legacy (God, if they can get away with the whole Cascio debacle and still have fans wanting to buy new MJ products, then I don't think MJ's legacy has much to worry about). But these endless compilations are tiresome. They were getting tiresome even when MJ was still alive. And it stops the main releases, like Number Ones for example, from reaching their full potential. After MJ passed, there were three different MJ hit compilations in the UK top 40 album chart. Thinking of long-term sales, MJ deserves to have one definitive collection, like Madonna's Immaculate Collection, Bob Marley's Legend or Queen's Greatest Hits... these are amongst the biggest selling albums of all time and it's because these artists haven't milked their catalogues with endless re-releases, packaging the same old songs in a new format.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 9:17:04 GMT
The whole thing screams Spotify Playlist to me. The vinyl looks cool (completely gimmicky, but I'll take it, I like collecting). I like how some deeper cuts are used (not too gone on Somebodys Watching Me being on there, he sings 1 line and does a few adlibby Hee's) but in a way, it's cool to see them release something, but when I see what Bowie's estate have done since he died (which was January 2016 let's not forget):
1 box set from 69-73, including all studio albums remastered, beautifully packaged, old versions of live albums with new mixed versions, a new mix of the Ziggy Stardust album, and a double CD of single edits, rare tracks and mono versions
His final recordings as a short EP, again beautifully and tastefully packaged on CD and vinyl
A greatest hits that spans his entire career (wasnt too gone on this, but still, everyone needs a greatest hits I suppose)
Re-releases of some rare albums, for example the Labyrinth soundtrack
Several rare releases for Record Store Day, namely an early version of Hunky Dory, and a brand new release of a show from 1974
Another box set documenting 1974-1976, with all the albums remastered, new mix of Station to Station (awful, but whatever), an unreleased early version of what turned out to be the Young Americans album, old mix and new mix of the David Live album, and another album of rare tracks/b sides/single or rare edits
Fair enough, you could say Bowie knew he was going to die and more than likely had a hand in a lot, if not all of the above. But why cant the estate come at it from this perspective? Michael Jackson was innovative, and in death they made him gimmicky. There's a vast amount of material that could be released that would satisfy everyone equally, but it's very very apparent that their main goal is money and new listeners. How come the Beatles never needed released like this to remain the biggest ever band on the planet? It's all so disappointing how everything has been handled. You can say, yes, we are moaning, but jesus christ I think people are well within their rights to.
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Post by HIStoric on Sept 7, 2017 10:25:56 GMT
How come the Beatles never needed released like this to remain the biggest ever band on the planet? It's all so disappointing how everything has been handled. You can say, yes, we are moaning, but jesus christ I think people are well within their rights to. The Beatles actually have released themed compilations. I literally have a record somewhere called 'Love Songs', a now out-of-print 1970s compilation released by EMI that focused on love songs. Mind you, the band didn't do this, instead it was their record label (which explains why it's been out of print ever since). There's also a slightly earlier compilation that focused on rock'n'roll songs they did, both Lennon and Starr complained publicly about the ugly album artwork as once again, this was a label project without their involvement. Another 1980s themed compilation was focused on ballads they did. Unsurprisingly, this was done by the label again. The Beatles got more control on the rights over their music later in the decade following the Nike commercial lawsuit, which explains why you haven't seen any of these compilations since. You also have the 1999 songtrack Yellow Submarine, which repackaged the songs from the film's original 1969 soundtrack, along with all the other songs from the film that never made the original soundtrack, due to being already available on earlier albums. I believe they offered a new mix of the songs, which is something valuable, but it's still comparable to this release as Scream is looking to compliment the upcoming Halloween film. I find it interesting too how we've got so much in the decade since Michael Jackson died. Nearly 30 pieces of unreleased material. Fans of The Beatles had to wait 24 years to hear new, original unreleased material by the world's biggest band. If the same happened with MJ, we wouldn't hear any material until 2033 - crazy!! Just a comparison I've always found interesting (and I think just another reason as to why we should be grateful for what we've got so far). As for Bowie, I think he's in a slightly different situation. The box sets you mention are a project line started by Bowie himself, in fact the first boxset you mention was released months before Bowie died. They sometimes offer new mixes, but ultimately it hasn't been a great deal of unreleased new material... more so just collecting b-sides and extended mixes that have been released and collating them into one place. That unreleased early version of Young Americans, Bowie had released most of those tracks as b-sides on singles over the years too. It's not a bad thing to collate them all into one place, especially given some of their rarity, but I do think the boxsets are overpriced. As for re-releasing rarer albums, this isn't something you can really apply to Michael Jackson either as he had a smaller discography and they were still in print. Bowie's Legacy compilation was just terrible though. They literally took the 2014 2-disc compilation Nothing Has Changed, kept the exact same tracklisting (minus swapping 2-3 songs on the end), put it in new packaging and sold it off. This surely had to be contractual or something. Aside from that, Bowie's Estate have done a good job and we are still in early days too! I'm confident in his estate and look forward to seeing what they put out.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 11:53:13 GMT
Still its new material and it is Michael, so we will probably end up buying up. Even if it turns out to be rubbish. Sep 29, this board will fill up with threads about it, every track and people doing lists of the best songs.
All I can say is bring it on - shmon!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 11:56:27 GMT
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Post by MattyJam on Sept 7, 2017 12:21:47 GMT
Michael Jackson was innovative, and in death they made him gimmicky. ^^^ This right here, THIS is exactly how I feel. Don't you love it when someone else sums up in one sentence exactly how you feel? This release is tacky and gimmicky, in a way MJ never was in life. There are ways to re-release and repackage old material that isn't gimmicky. How about a collection of underrated MJ tracks? I bet fans would be a lot more supportive of a release that was designed to shine a light on his lesser known hidden gems. They could've put together a regular disc version, and then a 2 disc addition with early demo versions, to give the hardcores something to chew on. Songs like Who Is It, Morphine, Get On The Floor, We've Had Enough, Speechless, Stranger In Moscow, Is It Scary, Little Susie, Keep The Faith, Whatever Happens, I Can't Help It, History, Unbreakable, Heartbreak Hotel. This would've been something I would've gladly supported. A nice little write-up about each song in the booklet, from the producers/co-writers/engineers who were present when they were recorded, and a critical appraisal of why these songs were selected. If they insist on trying to sell the same songs over and over, they could at least do so in a fashion that didn't cheapen MJ's body of work.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 12:26:26 GMT
Still its new material and it is Michael, so we will probably end up buying up. Even if it turns out to be rubbish. Sep 29, this board will fill up with threads about it, every track and people doing lists of the best songs. All I can say is bring it on - shmon! I think you've got the wrong board expecting that...
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Post by MattyJam on Sept 7, 2017 12:28:08 GMT
Still its new material and it is Michael, so we will probably end up buying up. Even if it turns out to be rubbish. Sep 29, this board will fill up with threads about it, every track and people doing lists of the best songs. All I can say is bring it on - shmon! In what parallel universe is this new material?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 12:36:07 GMT
Sorry my first post was before I realised the new material was a fiev song mash up, probably by some stupid "Producer" some mama jamma with wrap around shades, who stops the song to insert the "Yeah, yeh yeh, platinum hitz rollin with MJ yo yo yoh!" etc.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 12:44:25 GMT
Sorry my first post was before I realised the new material was a fiev song mash up, probably by some stupid "Producer" some mama jamma with wrap around shades, who stops the song to insert the "Yeah, yeh yeh, platinum hitz rollin with MJ yo yo yoh!" etc. Is that the 12" mix?
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Post by Snow White on Sept 7, 2017 13:13:31 GMT
Not every release has to be aimed at the hardcore fans, the Estate is targetting new younger ones to keep the interest in Michael going. I can see why many of us hardcore MJ fans wouldn't be excited with a compilation album but if you don't like the project and you already have the songs, you're free of not supporting it. The Michael Jackson fandom is the worst though, spreading negativity all over and not thinking of potential new comers or newer fans who were too young or hadn't even born when Michael was here with us and didn't have the chance to enjoy him and being part of anything,
I must say the artwork for the album cover is the most beautiful and the coolest one the estate has chosen. I want a t shirt and the vinyl for the artwork alone even if it's gimmicky.
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