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Post by pg13 on Oct 10, 2020 14:34:49 GMT
Expert witness, Dr Shafer had this to say about Michael's use of ephedrine:
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Post by aazzaabb on Oct 10, 2020 15:59:27 GMT
Its his inability to sleep is what I kept seeing and reading about, but don't remember much about his eating but it's clear he was very frail and skinny looking. I don't ever remember seeing anorexia come up though. He looked as skinny as he did for those MJ and Friends shows in '99. I know sleep deprivation can affect your appetite too. It was reported in the press at the time of his passing, but I think it was more speculation than anything else. I think there's a huge difference between the photos Russ posted and his build during the 1999 MJ & Friends shows. Yes he looked thin in 99, but he still looked healthy. He had been underweight periodically throughout his life, but he did look worryingly thin from 2007-2009.Weren't there stories about Kenny Ortega trying to push food on him to get him to eat? Yes, he really did didn’t he?! Didn’t someone say he looked like a cancer patient bless him. |
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Post by mjjfan810 on Oct 10, 2020 21:22:20 GMT
I find these cute attempts at playing dumb by Russg a bit tedious tbh. You know damn well MJ didn't have anorexia.
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Post by ggbbggbb4455445544 on Oct 10, 2020 21:32:11 GMT
No, Michael[/COLOR] was not “Anorexic” at ANY point in his life....EVER. Don’t believe the media, nor anything it attempts to “feed” you about him, so to speak. He was ALWAYS very small and skinny, naturally, and he made it clear that, while he appreciated the purpose of eating food —— as he very publicly stated, at least twice that we already know of (to both Geraldo Rivera and Jesse Jackson, sometime around the period just before he was to go on trial in 2005, I’m guessing) —— he said, point-blank, that he wasn’t “a great eater.” His eating habits were a whole lot more geared towards “eating to live,” rather than towards deliberate over-indulgence, greediness, an overly large appetite, and “living to eat.”
Also, he was very physically active as a dancer —— having been one throughout his whole entire lifetime —— who had a high metabolism, and was known to have lost a good amount of weight during his LIVE performances. And, too, during times of extreme emotional stress, he would lose what little bit of an appetite for food he had (as we saw what happened to him during the course of the trial’s proceedings, from the beginning of them to the announcement of the jury’s verdict at the end).
But, I feel the media’s and the tabloids’ so-called “news reports” greatly over-exaggerate the extent and degree of Michael’s weight loss and fluctuations, by their saying that, for a man who was about 5'9" or 5'10" tall, he weighed no more than about 100 pounds, or so —— and, some stories have him (supposedly, allegedly) weighing even less than that —— which is absolutely ridiculous.
I don’t believe these so-called “tapes” of what allegedly were “private” conversations between a man claiming to have been “Michael” —— who tries his very best to imitate the sound of his voice, and to convince the public to believe that the man talking on these “private” recordings actually was him —— and, a woman named “Glenda,” that have since been uploaded and posted all over “YouTube,” to be taken as if the contents of these recordings were “facts,” when they are not.
DO NOT[/u] believe anything you’ve been told, what you’ve seen, heard, or have read about, either in print or online. You’re all being LIED to, when you see, hear, read, etc.,[/COLOR] ANY suspect “information” about him that really can’t be proven, because, there is no evidence of any alleged “eating disorders,” “Anorexia Nervosa,” “mental illness,” “addiction”* (*which, I strongly believe, may have been more like a dependency, which was the overuse/misuse of a particular drug that was for the purpose of relieving the genuine physical pain he experienced, rather than for “recreational” use simply to get “high” off of it), nor of anything that would cause people to wrongly assume anything about him, other than gossip, hearsay, rumor and speculation.[/b][/font]
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,486 
Member is Online
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Post by TonyR on Oct 10, 2020 22:22:18 GMT
My problem with some of the reactions here and any MJ health thread is that by making out it would be impossible for Michael to be struggling with these issues you're helping stigmatise them.
If you think that between 2001 - 2009 MJ wss any way near healthy then you're wrong. It was sad and desperately upsetting to see but he was suffering from mental health issues. Very understandably, especially from 2005. Amd these were also affecting his physical health. I mean for christ's sake, I know he died at the hands of an unscrupulous Doctor, but it wasn't a random incident, it was because the only way he could cope with his physical and mental pain at that time was to be doped up on the highest of painkilers and sleep aids.
I wish his final few years hadn't been that way, but they were.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2020 22:26:43 GMT
My problem with some of the reactions here and any MJ health thread is that by making out it would be impossible for Michael to be struggling with these issues you're helping stigmatise them. If you think that between 2001 - 2009 MJ wss any way near healthy then you're wrong. It was sad and desperately upsetting to see but he was suffering from mental health issues. Very understandably, especially from 2005. Amd these were also affecting his physical health. I mean for christ's sake, I know he died at the hands of an unscrupulous Doctor, but it wasn't a random incident, it was because the only way he could cope with his physical and mental pain at that time was to be doped up on the highest of painkilers and sleep aids. I wish his final few years hadn't been that way, but they were. I mean, he did die because he was in a way trying to deal with a bigger underlying health issue. He wasn't dependent on propofol for the fun of it. The guy obviously needed an anesthetic to get by. That is far far far from healthy. So far, in fact, that it wound up killing him. Like you, I hate it, but this is what happened. He had issues that were not treated correctly and because of it he never had the chance to get better. |
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Post by SmoothGangsta on Oct 10, 2020 22:27:12 GMT
My problem with some of the reactions here and any MJ health thread is that by making out it would be impossible for Michael to be struggling with these issues you're helping stigmatise them. If you think that between 2001 - 2009 MJ wss any way near healthy then you're wrong. It was sad and desperately upsetting to see but he was suffering from mental health issues. Very understandably, especially from 2005. Amd these were also affecting his physical health. I mean for christ's sake, I know he died at the hands of an unscrupulous Doctor, but it wasn't a random incident, it was because the only way he could cope with his physical and mental pain at that time was to be doped up on the highest of painkilers and sleep aids. I wish his final few years hadn't been that way, but they were. Don't think anyone here has said it's impossible for MJ to have had mental health issues. I think it's pretty clear MJ struggled mentally for very obvious reasons. |
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Post by suzie on Oct 11, 2020 2:04:58 GMT
I've never read about him regurgitating his food That's bulimia. I think MJ was pretty straight up about when he did or didn't want to eat. He was on dieting pills at the time of his death, which is insane when you think about it. He badly needed to put ON weight and he still wanted to lose it. He also mentioned anexoria in those Glenda tapes. I think he was due to that and having those pills. We saw how healthy he got in the early 00s. I don’t think he was trying to gain that weight again. |
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Post by suzie on Oct 11, 2020 2:06:42 GMT
That wasn't diet pills. Those have ephedrine as a supplement in them. Michael had ephedrine in a stack, essentially. It can give you more energy, but can also be used to treat nasal problems. Considering the state of Michael's respiratory system, it's more likely it was prescribed for this reason as well as to give him more energy. That's why there was a noted change in his energy levels in the rehearsals after a certain point. But there's literally zero evidence Michael Jackson actually had an eating disorder. He wasn't ever a big eater anyway and once said if he could live without eating, he would. But that's not an eating disorder. You don't know what you're talking about. Ephedrine is widely known to be a highly potent appetite suppressor. Exactly! Look up any weight loss clinic in the us and see what they prescribe |
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Post by Michaels Lover on Oct 11, 2020 2:45:57 GMT
My problem with some of the reactions here and any MJ health thread is that by making out it would be impossible for Michael to be struggling with these issues you're helping stigmatise them. If you think that between 2001 - 2009 MJ wss any way near healthy then you're wrong. It was sad and desperately upsetting to see but he was suffering from mental health issues. Very understandably, especially from 2005. Amd these were also affecting his physical health. I mean for christ's sake, I know he died at the hands of an unscrupulous Doctor, but it wasn't a random incident, it was because the only way he could cope with his physical and mental pain at that time was to be doped up on the highest of painkilers and sleep aids. I wish his final few years hadn't been that way, but they were. I don't think anyone has said that he was healthy, but there's no reason to assume that there were things wrong with him that there WASN'T wrong with him. Like I don't believe for one second that he had anorexia, but that doesn't mean I think he was healthy |
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Post by respect77 on Oct 11, 2020 4:28:10 GMT
My problem with some of the reactions here and any MJ health thread is that by making out it would be impossible for Michael to be struggling with these issues you're helping stigmatise them. I don't disagree with the specific armchair diagnosis of anorexia because I want to stigmatise anorexia. I wouldn't care if he had anorexia, but I'm just not convinced. Again: anorexia isn't just being thin or having a bad appetite. It has the specific requirement that someone doesn't eat because they have a fear of gaining weight. Any evidence of that specifically being MJ's issue at the time of his death? If anything, he was probably depressed and traumatized from the trial and that was the reason for his lack of appetite, not anorexia. That doesn't mean he was healthy. Depression/trauma/insomnia is not healthy. But it's just not anorexia. That has nothing to do with stigmatising anorexia, it just doesn't seem to me that was MJ's issue. As simple as that. |
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Post by respect77 on Oct 11, 2020 4:37:58 GMT
You don't know what you're talking about. Ephedrine is widely known to be a highly potent appetite suppressor. Exactly! Look up any weight loss clinic in the us and see what they prescribe Pg13 just cited expert testimony from the Murray trial about other uses of ephedrine relating to Propofol, which would be relevant in MJ's case. Of course, with MJ already having a bad appetite, a doctor shouldn't have prescribed it to him for any reason, but it's not like Murray is famous for being a good doctor. I haven't heard of any testimony that MJ was taking ephedrine because he didn't want to gain weight. Did anyone ever say something like that? |
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Post by Russg on Oct 11, 2020 6:33:43 GMT
I don’t believe these so-called “tapes” of what allegedly were “private” conversations between a man claiming to have been “ Michael” —— who tries his very best to imitate the sound of his voice, and to convince the public to believe that the man talking on these “private” recordings actually was him —— and, a woman named “ Glenda,” that have since been uploaded and posted all over “ YouTube,” to be taken as if the contents of these recordings were “facts,” when they are not. I really don't know what to say to you if you don't believe it is MJ talking on the Glenda tapes. Not everything is a conspiracy. What evidence do you have that it is NOT MJ on those tapes? That's bulimia. He was on dieting pills at the time of his death, which is insane when you think about it. He badly needed to put ON weight and he still wanted to lose it. He also mentioned anexoria in those Glenda tapes. I think he was due to that and having those pills. We saw how healthy he got in the early 00s. I don’t think he was trying to gain that weight again. What does he say specifically about anorexia in the Glenda tapes? I haven't listened to them in years and I don't recall. You have fans denying the legitimacy of those tapes simply because they can't handle the thought that MJ was a normal human being with gripes and the capacity to bitch about people in private. These fans would rather believe MJ was an angel descending from on high, gracing mankind with his divine, heavenly presence and healing the sick with just a touch of his hand. There's no helping these fans. I find these cute attempts at playing dumb by Russg a bit tedious tbh. You know damn well MJ didn't have anorexia. No I don't know damn well he didn't have anorexia. To me, and a lot of other fans mature enough to view Michael as a mere human being with flaws, we genuinely care about MJs wellbeing and found his appearance towards the end of his life very alarming. I was genuinely shocked the first time pictures of TII rehearsals were made public following his passing. That famous pic of him in the Smooth Criminal jacket is a perfect example. He looks skeletal. The jacket is wearing him and there's not a trace of meat to him. And this was a shot officially released by AEG to the press. He did not look well, at all. As for the evidence supporting the theory that he could've struggled with anorexia, I would argue there is an abundance. Let's see: 1. Kenny Ortega saying he had to physically attempt to feed him to get him to eat 2. The use of Ephedrine in his system, a drug notoriously used to aid weight loss. Why would he be taking this when one of the main side effects can be insomnia? He was obviously invested in taking that particular drug and trying to combat the side effects with propafol. 3. A lifelong obsession with not eating 4. Paramedics called to the scene of his death mistaking the most famous man on the planet for a cancer patient |
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Post by respect77 on Oct 11, 2020 7:03:43 GMT
I believe the Glenda tapes are real, but I don't think MJ is using anorexia there in its precise medical definition, which is:
"Anorexia nervosa, often referred to simply as anorexia,[11] is an eating disorder, characterized by low weight, food restriction, fear of gaining weight and a strong desire to be thin.[1] Many people with anorexia see themselves as overweight even though they are, in fact, underweight.[1][2] They often deny that they have a problem with low weight.[3] They weigh themselves frequently, eat small amounts and only eat certain foods.[1] Some exercise excessively, force themselves to vomit, or use laxatives to lose weight.[1] Complications may include osteoporosis, infertility and heart damage, among others.[1]"
Do we have any evidence of any of these in MJ's case?
On the Glenda tapes MJ says something along the lines of that he only had control of his eating when he's talking about when he was younger. It seems to point to a psychological element of it, but again, nothing about problems with seeing himself as fat or any of that stuff which are the characteristics of anorexia.
I think MJ had some psychological issues like depression and trauma from his childhood, and later added to it by the allegations, but anorexia has a specific medical definition and I don't think that's what MJ had. Periodically he actually gained weight and he didn't seem to have a problem with seeing himself as fat for that. He looked rather happy during his marriage with LMP when he gained some weight, perhaps due to Lisa making him eat more regularly. Or compared to Thriller during Bad and Dangerous era he put on some weight and he looked happy with that.
So I don't think his weight issues were a body image problem like in anorexia.
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Post by respect77 on Oct 11, 2020 7:06:31 GMT
2. The use of Ephedrine in his system, a drug notoriously used to aid weight loss. Why would he be taking this when one of the main side effects can be insomnia? He was obviously invested in taking that particular drug and trying to combat the side effects with propafol. Pg13 quoted Dr Shafer above, which says just the opposite, that it's ephedrine that's used to treat the side effects of Propofol. Any testimony regarding who prescribed it to him and why? The rest aren't any more evidence of anorexia than a bad appetite/being thin. Which is not the same as anorexia. Evidence of anorexia would be if we had something that proved he didn't eat specifically because he saw himself as fat if he had more weight than a skeleton. That's what anorexia is, not just bad appetite/being thin. |
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