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Post by Russg on Oct 31, 2020 8:39:51 GMT
  VS  I've always seen these two albums as very similar. Both released around the turn of the century, both failed attempts at recapturing a pop audience, both projects abandoned after the first single, both largely unpopular with many fans. Which one do you prefer? VS VS |
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Post by mjjfan810 on Oct 31, 2020 8:50:59 GMT
Rave is one of Prince's worst albums. I hate everything about the plastic production and the pandering to trends. Garbage like Undisputed and his God-awful disco rendition of Everyday Is A Winding Road marked an all time low for Prince's creative well, which had already run pretty dry by 1999. Fortunately, better things were on the horizon with the failure of Rave leading to his creative resurgence of 01-03, with The Rainbow Children and One Nite Alone eras.
Invincible is a fine album, if a little desperate to catch on in places. I could leave the first three tracks, but after that, he delivered a fine pop/R&B/soul record. I listen to stuff like Butterflies, Heaven Can Wait, Rock My World, Speechless and Break of Dawn way more than anything on Rave. So I vote for Invincible.
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Post by MattyJam on Oct 31, 2020 9:07:21 GMT
Okay, as always, I have a very unpopular opinion in that I genuinely love the bones of both of these albums. This is like choosing between my kids (even though I only have one).
Rave was the Prince album that tipped me from casual fan to hardcore obsessive, and Invincible, well, you all know how much I love that record.
They both deserved a lot better in terms of commercial success imho. In terms of pitting them against eachother, I certainly see the similarities in terms of what each record meant to the artists career. They were both designed to be radio-friendly blockbusters, brimming with well-crafted potential hits and in the end, missed opportunities.
Rave feels a bit more personal, stuff like I Love U But I Don't Trust U Anymore and Man O War is just stunning and heartwrenching. Some of his most autobiographical and honest songs to date. You also have gorgeous, gentle moments like the delicate Tangerine and the beautiful Wherever U Go Whatever U Do. Plus, I think he came up with a great lead single in The Greatest Romance Ever Sold, which I maintain could've been a huge hit if they hadn't botched the release. I will never understand why Rave gets ragged on so much by so many Prince fans.
As for Invincible, again, many missed opportunities in terms of potential hits. Whatever Happens, Speechless, Butterflies, Unbreakable all could've been massive with the right promotion. There is some fine balladry on the album with Speechless and The Lost Children being the pick of the bunch. Plus his vocals on the record really do shine. I remember hearing it for the first time and being bowled over by the power and passion in his voice on Heaven Can Wait and Whatever Happens. And YRMW was a fantastic single as well.
I find it really hard to compare MJ and Prince, as their styles are so different. If I had a gun to my head, I would probably pick MJ though, but both albums have brought me countless hours of escapism and joy over the years.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2020 9:24:29 GMT
I'm a bigger fan of Rave than most Prince fans, I'd imagine, but Invincible is a way better listen. I appreciate what both were going for soundwise, and where they were in their lives, but overall the sound and production falls flat in both albums for me and are both the "least" sounding MJ/Prince albums there is.
Rave and YRMW are both great vintage tracks/singles. Both personal and emotional albums but... Invincible could have been so much better, and we know this because of the outtakes. Also, the 1989 Rave album was way better too.
Both albums are too long. But I think that about several of Princes from the 90's, where as it's the only MJ album I'd say that about.
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Post by MattyJam on Oct 31, 2020 9:32:54 GMT
I'm a bigger fan of Rave than most Prince fans, I'd imagine, but Invincible is a way better listen. I appreciate what both were going for soundwise, and where they were in their lives, but overall the sound and production falls flat in both albums for me and are both the "least" sounding MJ/Prince albums there is. Rave and YRMW are both great vintage tracks/singles. Both personal and emotional albums but... Invincible could have been so much better, and we know this because of the outtakes. Also, the 1989 Rave album was way better too. Both albums are too long. But I think that about several of Princes from the 90's, where as it's the only MJ album I'd say that about. Interesting analysis. I actually think Rave 99 trounces Rave 89. I don't get why fans say Rave doesn't sound like Prince. How can you say that when there's shit like the title track, ILYBIDTYA or Man O War on the record? That stuff is pure Prince. I will never understand why so many fans fawned over 3121 and Musicology and shit all over Rave. Name one song on 3121 as beautiful as ILYBIDTYA, or as passionate as Man O War or as weirdly funky as Rave (title track) or as insidiously catchy as TGRES? Rave kicks ass. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2020 9:38:00 GMT
I'm a bigger fan of Rave than most Prince fans, I'd imagine, but Invincible is a way better listen. I appreciate what both were going for soundwise, and where they were in their lives, but overall the sound and production falls flat in both albums for me and are both the "least" sounding MJ/Prince albums there is. Rave and YRMW are both great vintage tracks/singles. Both personal and emotional albums but... Invincible could have been so much better, and we know this because of the outtakes. Also, the 1989 Rave album was way better too. Both albums are too long. But I think that about several of Princes from the 90's, where as it's the only MJ album I'd say that about. Interesting analysis. I actually think Rave 99 trounces Rave 89. I don't get why fans say Rave doesn't sound like Prince. How can you say that when there's shit like the title track, ILYBIDTYA or Man O War on the record? That stuff is pure Prince. I will never understand why so many fans fawned over 3121 and Musicology and shit all over Rave. Name one song on 3121 as beautiful as ILYBIDTYA, or as passionate as Man O War or as weirdly funky as Rave (title track) or as insidiously catchy as TGRES? Rave kicks ass. 2 songs dont erase the other ones Matty. The albums are saturated in plastic shit sounding 2000s RnB production. It's still great but I hate how both albums are produced. 3121 and Musicology sound more organic, and just better to me. I'd place both albums above Rave. |
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Post by MattyJam on Oct 31, 2020 9:40:51 GMT
Interesting analysis. I actually think Rave 99 trounces Rave 89. I don't get why fans say Rave doesn't sound like Prince. How can you say that when there's shit like the title track, ILYBIDTYA or Man O War on the record? That stuff is pure Prince. I will never understand why so many fans fawned over 3121 and Musicology and shit all over Rave. Name one song on 3121 as beautiful as ILYBIDTYA, or as passionate as Man O War or as weirdly funky as Rave (title track) or as insidiously catchy as TGRES? Rave kicks ass. 2 songs dont erase the other ones Matty. The albums are saturated in plastic shit sounding 2000s RnB production. It's still great but I hate how both albums are produced. 3121 and Musicology sound more organic, and just better to me. I'd place both albums above Rave. No. No no no no no no. No. Better production means shit if the songs are uninspired. Most of 3121 and Musicology sounds weak asf in terms of the songwriting, at least to my ears. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2020 9:44:57 GMT
2 songs dont erase the other ones Matty. The albums are saturated in plastic shit sounding 2000s RnB production. It's still great but I hate how both albums are produced. 3121 and Musicology sound more organic, and just better to me. I'd place both albums above Rave. No. No no no no no no. No. Better production means shit if the songs are uninspired. Most of 3121 and Musicology sounds weak asf in terms of the songwriting, at least to my ears. I'd put probably as many standouts on each album if I'm honest. Albums presented and listened to as a whole I'd give it to 3121 and Musicology any day of the week though. Fury. That's it. That's the tweet.* * whoever invented this phrase should be kicked to death. Twice. |
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Post by MattyJam on Oct 31, 2020 9:51:22 GMT
No. No no no no no no. No. Better production means shit if the songs are uninspired. Most of 3121 and Musicology sounds weak asf in terms of the songwriting, at least to my ears. I'd put probably as many standouts on each album if I'm honest. Albums presented and listened to as a whole I'd give it to 3121 and Musicology any day of the week though. Fury. That's it. That's the tweet.* * whoever invented this phrase should be kicked to death. Twice. I hate all the pretty female backing vocals over most of the 3121 tracks (thanks Tamar). It makes it all sound so insipid and like Topshop music. And Musicology was just a bit ordinary, save for a few keepers. I love Rave, always will, and will accept no criticisms to the contrary. When you are ready to apologise for blaspheming, I will accept. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2020 11:32:28 GMT
I'd put probably as many standouts on each album if I'm honest. Albums presented and listened to as a whole I'd give it to 3121 and Musicology any day of the week though. Fury. That's it. That's the tweet.* * whoever invented this phrase should be kicked to death. Twice. I hate all the pretty female backing vocals over most of the 3121 tracks (thanks Tamar). It makes it all sound so insipid and like Topshop music. And Musicology was just a bit ordinary, save for a few keepers. I love Rave, always will, and will accept no criticisms to the contrary. When you are ready to apologise for blaspheming, I will accept. 1988 for the win! |
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Post by mjjfan810 on Oct 31, 2020 11:36:29 GMT
MattyJam Sometimes I wonder if you're trolling us with your taste. It is very questionable at times. No offense, lol.
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Post by MattyJam on Oct 31, 2020 11:46:14 GMT
MattyJam Sometimes I wonder if you're trolling us with your taste. It is very questionable at times. No offense, lol. I'm pretty sure TonyR and @innuendo141 have wondered the same thing for years. But alas, my taste is nothing if not unique. Ha. It's just a cut above everyone elses and I'm ahead of the curve. In 20 years from now, you'll all come to the realisation that I was bang on about everything. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2020 11:50:32 GMT
Michael Jackson didn't even agree with you about Invincible  |
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Post by MattyJam on Oct 31, 2020 11:51:26 GMT
Michael Jackson didn't even agree with you about Invincible Why? What did he say? Traitor. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2020 11:52:44 GMT
Michael Jackson didn't even agree with you about Invincible Why? What did he say? Traitor. "Tonight Matthew, I'm going to be... Performing, from my 1991 album Dangerous, Dangerous!" Michael Jackson, circa 2001/2002. |
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