|
Post by pg13 on Mar 3, 2022 19:07:25 GMT
|
|
|
Post by elusivemoonwalker on Mar 3, 2022 20:43:38 GMT
Maybe they hired the same P.R team who did L.N🤫😉🙄
|
|
|
Post by HIStoric on Mar 3, 2022 20:47:51 GMT
The funny thing is, I've seen celebrities or people with lots of followers pointing out that they've noticed the number of Russian bots have decreased a fair bit since the war broke out (or, at least diverted their attention elsewhere).
Most recently, Simu Liu who was the main star of Marvel's Shang Chi.
Basically seems they've gone from stirring shit elsewhere and now focusing on their homeland lol.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2022 23:39:40 GMT
Might be an idea to make a separate sticky thread with these links MattyJam ? Just a suggestion!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2022 6:20:37 GMT
|
|
|
Post by HIStoric on Mar 4, 2022 6:50:23 GMT
I was watching it on livestream earlier today briefly and it blew my mind that I was literally watching a war take place on fucking YouTube.
Honestly, once Putin fucking karks it a lot of the world is going to openly celebrate his demise.
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Mar 4, 2022 9:43:29 GMT
How the war is presented in Russian media. Sorry, they don't call it war, but a "special military operation".
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2022 18:18:12 GMT
I was watching it on livestream earlier today briefly and it blew my mind that I was literally watching a war take place on fucking YouTube.
Honestly, once Putin fucking karks it a lot of the world is going to openly celebrate his demise.
My physio turned to me and said "Did you ever think we'd be watching a war on Tik-Tok?" and we kind of sniggered at the thought of it, and then went completely silent at the fact of it. This is all so surreal.
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Mar 5, 2022 4:04:15 GMT
|
|
|
Post by pg13 on Mar 5, 2022 4:09:29 GMT
NATO didn't have the backing of the UN Security Council when they bombed Serbia. And NATO also didn't claim a state was being attacked by another state.
All NATO members are bound by the UN charter which legitimises military action for two reasons:
1) authorisation by UN Security Council 2) Self-defence against another state
Neither of these was present when NATO decided to bomb Serbia.
True, NATO claimed it was a humanitarian intervention, but surely Ukraine is as well?
Clinton said of the NATO bombing of Serbia:
"NATO stopped deliberate, systematic efforts at ethnic cleansing and genocide....they're going to have to come to grips with what Mr. Milošević ordered in Kosovo....They're going to have to decide whether they support his leadership or not; whether they think it's OK that all those tens of thousands of people were killed...."
This pretty much applies to Putin's Russian invasion of Ukraine.
The above example is one that shows NATO isn't always defensive minded and CAN be offensive minded.
Indeed, some NATO members have acted militarily independently of NATO and the UN Security Council. The United States of America, the United Kingdom and France are three examples.
NATO already set the precedent in 1999 with Serbia.
So, why doesn't NATO apply the same logic with respect to Ukraine?
Simple - NATO fears Russia. It's not because NATO is meant to be a defensive alliance, really.
To make it worse, the Budapest Memorandum was meant to guarantee the security of Ukraine in addition to Belarus and Kazakhstan which was signed by the United States of America, United Kingdom and the Russian Federation amongst others.
It contained SIX obligations on the signatories:
1) Respect Belarusian, Kazakh and Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.
2) Refrain from the threat or the use of force against Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine.
3) Refrain from using economic pressure on Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine to influence their politics.
4) Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".
5) Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine.
6) Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments.
Russia has broken the terms of the Budapest Memorandum and yet the West hasn't responded militarily.
Russia's annexation of Crimea in 2014 was a breach of this as well.
NATO and the West have been involved for a long time.....
|
|
|
Post by pg13 on Mar 5, 2022 4:24:34 GMT
"All the people who die from this day forward will also die because of you, because of your weakness, because of your lack of unity.
The alliance has given the green light to the bombing of Ukrainian cities and villages by refusing to create a no-fly zone.
We believe that NATO countries have created a narrative that closing the skies over Ukraine would provoke Russia's direct aggression against NATO. This is the self-hypnosis of those who are weak, insecure inside, despite the fact they possess weapons many times stronger than what we have.
We are warriors of light. The history Europe will remember this forever!"
- Ukrainian President Zelensky on NATO's refusal to act
Zelensky is NOT wrong there!
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Mar 5, 2022 4:50:37 GMT
I guess NATO is afraid of further escalating the situation into a World War.
|
|
|
Post by pg13 on Mar 5, 2022 4:52:20 GMT
I guess NATO is afraid of further escalating the situation into a World War. Putin knows the West and NATO will be thinking he'll press the nuclear button in order to do what he's doing in Ukraine. There's method in his madness. He looked West and saw weakness. UK sanctions after Salisbury poisonings was more like a slap on the wrist with no serious action for Russian aggression on UK territory which also violated the UK's borders as well as sovereignty. Putin's annexation of Crimea in 2014 and the West's response to it further highlighted the weakness of the West to Putin. Then, we have the awful sight of the US pulling out of Afghanistan in the way they did which underscored the weakness of US foreign military operations to Putin. Logically, if the West and NATO fear a nuclear war....by definition they fear Putin's Russia because they believe he'll press the button. Putin made an educated guess he wouldn't be opposed militarily in Ukraine. By the time sanctions properly take effect, far too many people will have lost their loves and cities will have been razed to the ground. Although brave, the Ukrainian Army has a lot less of many military things - personnel, aircraft, tanks, ammunition, etc. They've even got old Soviet era equipment. Russia, on the other hand, has a lot more of everything. Remember, the West assured Ukraine of their security in return for giving up their nuclear weapons. If I was Ukrainian today, I'd be feeling betrayed by the West for this. Would Russia have invaded if Ukraine had retained their nuclear weapons? Unlikely. Still, the argument that NATO is purely defensive doesn't stand up.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2022 6:47:20 GMT
I guess NATO is afraid of further escalating the situation into a World War. Putin knows the West and NATO will be thinking he'll press the nuclear button in order to do what he's doing in Ukraine. There's method in his madness. He looked West and saw weakness. UK sanctions after Salisbury poisonings was more like a slap on the wrist with no serious action for Russian aggression on UK territory which also violated the UK's borders as well as sovereignty. Putin's annexation of Crimea in 2014 and the West's response to it further highlighted the weakness of the West to Putin. Then, we have the awful sight of the US pulling out of Afghanistan in the way they did which underscored the weakness of US foreign military operations to Putin. Logically, if the West and NATO fear a nuclear war....by definition they fear Putin's Russia because they believe he'll press the button. Putin made an educated guess he wouldn't be opposed militarily in Ukraine. By the time sanctions properly take effect, far too many people will have lost their loves and cities will have been razed to the ground. Although brave, the Ukrainian Army has a lot less of many military things - personnel, aircraft, tanks, ammunition, etc. They've even got old Soviet era equipment. Russia, on the other hand, has a lot more of everything. Remember, the West assured Ukraine of their security in return for giving up their nuclear weapons. If I was Ukrainian today, I'd be feeling betrayed by the West for this. Would Russia have invaded if Ukraine had retained their nuclear weapons? Unlikely. Still, the argument that NATO is purely defensive doesn't stand up. Surely, but there's also just plain madness also. We can't assume that he's playing up to how he's currently perceived by the west. I think the attack on Zaporizhzhia has sped up any possibility of NATO acting because it was beyond lunacy. The introduction of a possible 15 year jail term for "false reporting" of news, along with the banning of Facebook and Twitter all on the same day will also increase the possibility of social and civil unrest in Russia. I'm not disagreeing with you though. Honestly, it's all too much to take in in real time. I'm pretty sure 99% of us here on a Michael Jackson forum loathe any war, but how could you not in theory want NATO to jump in right away. But given Putin's front (at least) in the longterm it seems that the Ukranian people are the collateral in an effort to avoid an all out nuclear war in 2022. The rope around the neck of the Russian people economically should be felt way more next week, but I'm still struggling to see why the larger corporations are not stalling everything yesterday. Cut Russia off in every single way and let the Russian people and economy be the collateral thanks to the actions of the Federation is currently the best way to ensure that we are not sitting waiting for a nuclear breeze to blow our early deaths to us!
|
|
|
Post by pg13 on Mar 5, 2022 7:57:05 GMT
Putin knows the West and NATO will be thinking he'll press the nuclear button in order to do what he's doing in Ukraine. There's method in his madness. He looked West and saw weakness. UK sanctions after Salisbury poisonings was more like a slap on the wrist with no serious action for Russian aggression on UK territory which also violated the UK's borders as well as sovereignty. Putin's annexation of Crimea in 2014 and the West's response to it further highlighted the weakness of the West to Putin. Then, we have the awful sight of the US pulling out of Afghanistan in the way they did which underscored the weakness of US foreign military operations to Putin. Logically, if the West and NATO fear a nuclear war....by definition they fear Putin's Russia because they believe he'll press the button. Putin made an educated guess he wouldn't be opposed militarily in Ukraine. By the time sanctions properly take effect, far too many people will have lost their loves and cities will have been razed to the ground. Although brave, the Ukrainian Army has a lot less of many military things - personnel, aircraft, tanks, ammunition, etc. They've even got old Soviet era equipment. Russia, on the other hand, has a lot more of everything. Remember, the West assured Ukraine of their security in return for giving up their nuclear weapons. If I was Ukrainian today, I'd be feeling betrayed by the West for this. Would Russia have invaded if Ukraine had retained their nuclear weapons? Unlikely. Still, the argument that NATO is purely defensive doesn't stand up. Surely, but there's also just plain madness also. We can't assume that he's playing up to how he's currently perceived by the west. I think the attack on Zaporizhzhia has sped up any possibility of NATO acting because it was beyond lunacy. The introduction of a possible 15 year jail term for "false reporting" of news, along with the banning of Facebook and Twitter all on the same day will also increase the possibility of social and civil unrest in Russia. I'm not disagreeing with you though. Honestly, it's all too much to take in in real time. I'm pretty sure 99% of us here on a Michael Jackson forum loathe any war, but how could you not in theory want NATO to jump in right away. But given Putin's front (at least) in the longterm it seems that the Ukranian people are the collateral in an effort to avoid an all out nuclear war in 2022. The rope around the neck of the Russian people economically should be felt way more next week, but I'm still struggling to see why the larger corporations are not stalling everything yesterday. Cut Russia off in every single way and let the Russian people and economy be the collateral thanks to the actions of the Federation is currently the best way to ensure that we are not sitting waiting for a nuclear breeze to blow our early deaths to us! Yeah, I think more people in the West have to understand that sometimes war is necessary in order to have peace. But modern life makes everything so easy and instantaneous that I think most Westerners really don't want that inconvenienced for anyone. Too many look at Ukraine as a far off country at war with Russia and think its none of our business. Yet how many of them are spouting warm words online and at protests whilst wringing their hands of a moral obligation to help militarily? Our leaders especially. And the people follow. The Western spirit of WW2 is not really present today, is it? Christ know knows how far Putin is willing to go and what he'll do next. But I do agree the Russian people must be made to feel economic pain due to Putin's Russian invasion. Even on this point,I've seen too many say that's unfair on the Russian people. Whilst Ukrainian cities are shelled, like. Nothing about this war is fair and the Ukrainian people shouldn't be viewed as collateral or left at the mercy of Putin The Despot. Come on, NATO....war may well come to you yet whether you want it or not! "How many people have to cry The song of pain and grief across the land? And how many children have to die Before we stand to lend a healing hand?"- MJ
|
|