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Post by MattyJam on Aug 8, 2023 5:55:28 GMT
Heartbreaker is a ballad.
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Post by butterflies2 on Aug 8, 2023 6:00:12 GMT
Heartbreaker is a ballad. Sweet child of mine is a ballad
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Post by butterflies2 on Aug 8, 2023 22:34:19 GMT
Also, I’ve been playing madonna ballads on repeat since reading this thread
I have a newfound love for This Used to Be My Playground. She did Childhood before mj did…and arguably better!
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Post by respect77 on Aug 9, 2023 13:33:43 GMT
Also, I’ve been playing madonna ballads on repeat since reading this thread I have a newfound love for This Used to Be My Playground. She did Childhood before mj did…and arguably better! This Used to Be My Playground is a song I like by Madonna and possibly her most underrated song. Although I see it was #1 but somehow I feel it's not talked about a lot these day when it comes to the best Madonna songs, so maybe that's why it feels underrated to me. I'm not her biggest fan, but I always liked this song. Having said that, I don't understand the Childhood comparison. It never would have occurred to me to compare the two. Why is it "Madonna's Childhood" in your opinion? I took a look at the song's Wikipedia page and it doesn't seem to me an autobiographical song or anything like that. It was written as a theme for a movie by Shep Pettibone and Madonna. And musically they are completely different too. So I don't really understand this "Madonna's Childhood" or "Childhood before MJ" thing. I don't see any similarities between the two songs. Can you explain?
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Post by pg13 on Aug 9, 2023 15:42:14 GMT
Also, I’ve been playing madonna ballads on repeat since reading this thread I have a newfound love for This Used to Be My Playground. She did Childhood before mj did…and arguably better! This Used to Be My Playground is a song I like by Madonna and possibly her most underrated song. Although I see it was #1 but somehow I feel it's not talked about a lot these day when it comes to the best Madonna songs, so maybe that's why it feels underrated to me. I'm not her biggest fan, but I always liked this song. Having said that, I don't understand the Childhood comparison. It never would have occurred to me to compare the two. Why is it "Madonna's Childhood" in your opinion? I took a look at the song's Wikipedia page and it doesn't seem to me an autobiographical song or anything like that. It was written as a theme for a movie by Shep Pettibone and Madonna. And musically they are completely different too. So I don't really understand this "Madonna's Childhood" or "Childhood before MJ" thing. I don't see any similarities between the two songs. Can you explain? I'm wondering the same thing myself, especially as the song isn't personal for Madonna as she herself said: The song was written for A League Of Their Own which Madonna had a supporting role in. Good film as I remember it. "Dick Tracy" in 1990 was really my introduction to Madonna - loved the film at the time but not Madonna. But there is no obvious comparison between that and "Childhood" which wasn't an assignment song for MJ! 🤦♂️
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Post by MattyJam on Aug 9, 2023 17:10:06 GMT
It's a disgrace, is what it is.
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Post by aazzaabb on Aug 9, 2023 17:27:39 GMT
Strictly looking at the ballads from MJs solo albums OTW-Invincible, MJ never really matched his contemporaries when it came to breathtaking ballads. Name me one song MJ ballad that's better than this: Or this: Or this: Or this: I'm as big a fan as anybody of songs like Human Nature, Speechless, Why, YANA, hell, I even love The Lost Children if that counts, but none of these songs are as stunning as the best Madonna/Prince ballads imho. Agree/disagree? I think you have a point where Madonna is concerned. She certainly gives MJ a run for his money. Her ballads are absolutely wonderful IMO.
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,416
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Post by TonyR on Aug 9, 2023 17:31:04 GMT
This Used to Be My Playground is a song I like by Madonna and possibly her most underrated song. Although I see it was #1 but somehow I feel it's not talked about a lot these day when it comes to the best Madonna songs, so maybe that's why it feels underrated to me. I'm not her biggest fan, but I always liked this song. Having said that, I don't understand the Childhood comparison. It never would have occurred to me to compare the two. Why is it "Madonna's Childhood" in your opinion? I took a look at the song's Wikipedia page and it doesn't seem to me an autobiographical song or anything like that. It was written as a theme for a movie by Shep Pettibone and Madonna. And musically they are completely different too. So I don't really understand this "Madonna's Childhood" or "Childhood before MJ" thing. I don't see any similarities between the two songs. Can you explain? I'm wondering the same thing myself, especially as the song isn't personal for Madonna as she herself said: The song was written for A League Of Their Own which Madonna had a supporting role in. Good film as I remember it. "Dick Tracy" in 1990 was really my introduction to Madonna - loved the film at the time but not Madonna. But there is no obvious comparison between that and "Childhood" which wasn't an assignment song for MJ! 🤦♂️ It's a bit strange that you've researched the song to try and disprove butterflies2 wrong. Music is subjective and based on gut feel, so I'd TUTBMP resonates with her and feels like Childhood then she's right. Plus there is a correlation on the subject matter.
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Post by aazzaabb on Aug 9, 2023 17:43:02 GMT
I'm wondering the same thing myself, especially as the song isn't personal for Madonna as she herself said: The song was written for A League Of Their Own which Madonna had a supporting role in. Good film as I remember it. "Dick Tracy" in 1990 was really my introduction to Madonna - loved the film at the time but not Madonna. But there is no obvious comparison between that and "Childhood" which wasn't an assignment song for MJ! 🤦♂️ It's a bit strange that you've researched the song to try and disprove butterflies2 wrong. Music is subjective and based on gut feel, so I'd TUTBMP resonates with her and feels like Childhood then she's right. Plus there is a correlation on the subject matter. Yeah agree. Music is about what it makes you feel. It’s art! Doesn’t need to make sense in an analytical way. Butterflies clearly listened to the song and it made her feel a certain way. Are we needing to research, fact check and Wikipedia everything we listen to now in order to have an opinion? Defeats the purpose. And comes across as cold, clinical and disengaged. Knowing the song I completely got what Butterflies was getting at. Merely from listening to it.
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Post by pg13 on Aug 9, 2023 19:09:58 GMT
I'm wondering the same thing myself, especially as the song isn't personal for Madonna as she herself said: The song was written for A League Of Their Own which Madonna had a supporting role in. Good film as I remember it. "Dick Tracy" in 1990 was really my introduction to Madonna - loved the film at the time but not Madonna. But there is no obvious comparison between that and "Childhood" which wasn't an assignment song for MJ! 🤦♂️ It's a bit strange that you've researched the song to try and disprove butterflies2 wrong. Music is subjective and based on gut feel, so I'd TUTBMP resonates with her and feels like Childhood then she's right. Plus there is a correlation on the subject matter. Not all about discrediting anyone. Rather I'm interested in Butterflies' view on it and how they came to that conclusion because the comparison between the two isn't obvious. Madonna's song isn't about childhood, but about an adult being unable or unwilling to let go of the past. Not even her own childhood. For her, it was a "writing assignment" for a film. Michael's Childhood is about explaining how his lost childhood made him the person he is. Its about explaining his own humanity and hoping other people understand it. And these points are entirely relevant here. I disagree that music is solely about the emotions! Music is about much more than that and I find the hyperfocus on the emotions very limiting for music. For me, to use a military originated phrase, music is ultimately about the hearts and minds. Music is as much about communicating thoughts, opinions, viewpoints and other things associated with the thinking brain as it is with listening or composing for pure enjoyment. In the long history of music, it's never been about pure enjoyment above or at the expense of the intellectual. Indeed, Michael's sing Childhood is not really strictly about enjoyment - it's about thinking and reflecting. TDCAU, HIStory, IIS, Scream, Earth Song, MITM, etc, are also not solely about enjoyment. They're also about the intellectual side of things. Even the discussion about ballads is needlessly put into enjoyment or else frame! Listening to ballads for enjoyment is one thing, but discussing the classification of ballads is a completely different ball game! I think people can get MORE out of music by using their hearts and minds. It really limits the experience to have a hyperfocus on emotional enjoyment. What about intellectual enjoyment of music in addition?! 🤷♂️
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Post by butterflies2 on Aug 9, 2023 22:11:14 GMT
It's a bit strange that you've researched the song to try and disprove butterflies2 wrong. Music is subjective and based on gut feel, so I'd TUTBMP resonates with her and feels like Childhood then she's right. Plus there is a correlation on the subject matter. Yeah agree. Music is about what it makes you feel. It’s art! Doesn’t need to make sense in an analytical way. Butterflies clearly listened to the song and it made her feel a certain way. Are we needing to research, fact check and Wikipedia everything we listen to now in order to have an opinion? Defeats the purpose. And comes across as cold, clinical and disengaged. Knowing the song I completely got what Butterflies was getting at. Merely from listening to it. Glad you get it, thanks! I definitely felt emotions similar to what childhood made me feel at one point years ago, and I guess from woman to woman I empathized with the feelings in playground. I already know the backstory behind the process of the song and how it differs from childhoods process, but I am allowed to feel what I do towards the songs
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Post by respect77 on Aug 10, 2023 3:18:22 GMT
I'm wondering the same thing myself, especially as the song isn't personal for Madonna as she herself said: The song was written for A League Of Their Own which Madonna had a supporting role in. Good film as I remember it. "Dick Tracy" in 1990 was really my introduction to Madonna - loved the film at the time but not Madonna. But there is no obvious comparison between that and "Childhood" which wasn't an assignment song for MJ! 🤦♂️ It's a bit strange that you've researched the song to try and disprove butterflies2 wrong. Music is subjective and based on gut feel, so I'd TUTBMP resonates with her and feels like Childhood then she's right. Plus there is a correlation on the subject matter. Yes, music is subjective, but that doesn't mean you are not allowed to have questions when someone makes a parallel between two songs those aren't obviously parallel to each other. If I'd say Material Girl is Madonna's Purple Rain, only she did it better, I'm sure y'all would have questions as to what connection I see between the two songs and "well, music is just a subjective thing" probably wouldn't satisfy that curiosity. And I'm not sure why we can't look up songs while we are discussing them. I, for one looked up This Used to Be because I was genuinely curious if it was autobiographical or what is the common thing that's between the two songs, because musically I can't see it. So I thought maybe it's also autobiographical, also a reflection on her childhood? I'm not really familiar with the background of Madonna songs so I had to look it up to try to figure it out. Since Butterflies said Madonna did "Childhood" before MJ, only better. So I was wondering what she meant. I still don't know and I still don't understand. Of course, she is allowed to have whatever subjective feelings she has about a song, I was just curious what she meant. Looking it up on Wikipedia wasn't meant as an offense.
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Post by aazzaabb on Aug 10, 2023 7:34:42 GMT
It's a bit strange that you've researched the song to try and disprove butterflies2 wrong. Music is subjective and based on gut feel, so I'd TUTBMP resonates with her and feels like Childhood then she's right. Plus there is a correlation on the subject matter. Yes, music is subjective, but that doesn't mean you are not allowed to have questions when someone makes a parallel between two songs those aren't obviously parallel to each other. If I'd say Material Girl is Madonna's Purple Rain, only she did it better, I'm sure y'all would have questions as to what connection I see between the two songs and "well, music is just a subjective thing" probably wouldn't satisfy that curiosity. And I'm not sure why we can't look up songs while we are discussing them. I, for one looked up This Used to Be because I was genuinely curious if it was autobiographical or what is the common thing that's between the two songs, because musically I can't see it. So I thought maybe it's also autobiographical, also a reflection on her childhood? I'm not really familiar with the background of Madonna songs so I had to look it up to try to figure it out. Since Butterflies said Madonna did "Childhood" before MJ, only better. So I was wondering what she meant. I still don't know and I still don't understand. Of course, she is allowed to have whatever subjective feelings she has about a song, I was just curious what she meant. Looking it up on Wikipedia wasn't meant as an offense. She simply meant that the song touched her in a similar way as Childhood did. And using such a song -Childhood- to compare it to demonstrates how high a regard she holds TYTBMP in. When someone says “It’s her/his Childhood/Purple Rain etc, it positions that song as a benchmark of sorts and using it as way of comparison is a way of letting others know ‘this is how good I think this song is!’ In this instance it can also be about alluding to the song emoting similar feelings in the person. You can make such remarks in an almost throwaway fashion also. A rock fan might say something like “It’s their Stairway to Heaven/Comfortably Numb” Now, it quite obviously may not be anywhere near that type of grandeur but alluding to such a song let’s us know that the person really loves that song or something about it was profound for them. Or, of course it can be used in a tongue in check fashion. Totally get that yourself and PG13 meant no offence by the way. Obviously Butterflies was touched by TUTBMP and perhaps some of us felt that by questioning it in a more analytical type of way diminished her experience.
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Post by MattyJam on Aug 10, 2023 8:40:42 GMT
Stupid thread.
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Post by Russg on Aug 10, 2023 9:30:20 GMT
How about Janet ballads versus MJ ones?
She's had some great ones:
Again Lets Wait A While Anytime Anyplace Come Back To Me Twenty Foreplay I Want You After You Fall
And some not so good: The Body That Loves You Every Time (poor mans Again) Greatest X
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