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Post by respect77 on Aug 10, 2023 13:52:16 GMT
Yes, music is subjective, but that doesn't mean you are not allowed to have questions when someone makes a parallel between two songs those aren't obviously parallel to each other. If I'd say Material Girl is Madonna's Purple Rain, only she did it better, I'm sure y'all would have questions as to what connection I see between the two songs and "well, music is just a subjective thing" probably wouldn't satisfy that curiosity. And I'm not sure why we can't look up songs while we are discussing them. I, for one looked up This Used to Be because I was genuinely curious if it was autobiographical or what is the common thing that's between the two songs, because musically I can't see it. So I thought maybe it's also autobiographical, also a reflection on her childhood? I'm not really familiar with the background of Madonna songs so I had to look it up to try to figure it out. Since Butterflies said Madonna did "Childhood" before MJ, only better. So I was wondering what she meant. I still don't know and I still don't understand. Of course, she is allowed to have whatever subjective feelings she has about a song, I was just curious what she meant. Looking it up on Wikipedia wasn't meant as an offense. She simply meant that the song touched her in a similar way as Childhood did. And using such a song -Childhood- to compare it to demonstrates how high a regard she holds TYTBMP in. When someone says “It’s her/his Childhood/Purple Rain etc, it positions that song as a benchmark of sorts and using it as way of comparison is a way of letting others know ‘this is how good I think this song is!’ In this instance it can also be about alluding to the song emoting similar feelings in the person. You can make such remarks in an almost throwaway fashion also. A rock fan might say something like “It’s their Stairway to Heaven/Comfortably Numb” Now, it quite obviously may not be anywhere near that type of grandeur but alluding to such a song let’s us know that the person really loves that song or something about it was profound for them. Or, of course it can be used in a tongue in check fashion. Totally get that yourself and PG13 meant no offence by the way. Obviously Butterflies was touched by TUTBMP and perhaps some of us felt that by questioning it in a more analytical type of way diminished her experience. Well, Childhood isn't the kind of MJ song that's often used as a benchmark for greatness so I didn't really get that feeling of it being used as such. "It's her Billie Jean", it's her "MITM" would have made more sense to me in that regard then.
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Post by aazzaabb on Aug 10, 2023 14:24:11 GMT
She simply meant that the song touched her in a similar way as Childhood did. And using such a song -Childhood- to compare it to demonstrates how high a regard she holds TYTBMP in. When someone says “It’s her/his Childhood/Purple Rain etc, it positions that song as a benchmark of sorts and using it as way of comparison is a way of letting others know ‘this is how good I think this song is!’ In this instance it can also be about alluding to the song emoting similar feelings in the person. You can make such remarks in an almost throwaway fashion also. A rock fan might say something like “It’s their Stairway to Heaven/Comfortably Numb” Now, it quite obviously may not be anywhere near that type of grandeur but alluding to such a song let’s us know that the person really loves that song or something about it was profound for them. Or, of course it can be used in a tongue in check fashion. Totally get that yourself and PG13 meant no offence by the way. Obviously Butterflies was touched by TUTBMP and perhaps some of us felt that by questioning it in a more analytical type of way diminished her experience. Well, Childhood isn't the kind of MJ song that's often used as a benchmark for greatness so I didn't really get that feeling of it being used as such. "It's her Billie Jean", it's her "MITM" would have made more sense to me in that regard then. Generally speaking, no, but within the fan community it is hailed among fans as a great/important MJ song. Perhaps not a benchmark, but it has a certain weight to it. Interpretations can be abstract I guess and looking for receipts for one’s feelings regarding such can be a bit of an impossibility. Anyways, it doesn’t really matter. 😎👍🏻
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Post by ghost on Aug 12, 2023 6:15:14 GMT
Moving away a second from the insanity of calling Dirty Diana and Billie Jean a ballad...
I can't speak for Prince, as I am not a fan at all, but comparing Madonna and MJ is like comparing apples and oranges. They're such different artists, she could never do what he did with all that natural born talent etc, but then he didn't have that drive and relentless ambition to keep things fresh like she did.
MJ was always more of an uptempo artist. The ballads he did were fine, a few excellent ones. But they were never the standouts or centrepiece for MJ, they always felt a bit of a "token ballad" on his albums (except for Invincible where he just went crazy with it).
Madonna was amazing at ballads and many of her greatest songs and album highlights over the years have been ballads. She could probably release a "Something To Remember 2" and have enough great ballads to fill it up. Whilst this wouldn't be the case with Michael, I feel his strengths lay elsewhere. How many rock songs has Madonna pulled off for example?
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Post by MattyJam on Oct 3, 2023 8:12:46 GMT
I thought I would resurrect this thread to say, I think I've had a change of heart on this.
During the autumn/winter months I always make a lot of melancholic playlists, lots of ballads etc. After seeing the incredible leaked footage from the Childhood recording sessions, I've been really feeling some of the MJ ballads lately and rediscovered my love of songs like Childhood, Speechless, Much Too Soon, The Lost Children and even Stranger In Moscow has been resonating.
I think my main gripe is, I just wish there were more ballads in his catalogue. I appreciate MJ was mostly an uptempo artist, but he had such a soulful voice which could cut straight through to the core of your being. I sometimes wish he'd done a ballads album or something...
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Post by ghost on Oct 3, 2023 8:25:59 GMT
I sometimes wish he'd done a ballads album or something... He did. It was called Invincible.
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Post by pg13 on Oct 3, 2023 8:35:48 GMT
I thought I would resurrect this thread to say, I think I've had a change of heart on this. During the autumn/winter months I always make a lot of melancholic playlists, lots of ballads etc. After seeing the incredible leaked footage from the Childhood recording sessions, I've been really feeling some of the MJ ballads lately and rediscovered my love of songs like Childhood, Speechless, Much Too Soon, The Lost Children and even Stranger In Moscow has been resonating. I think my main gripe is, I just wish there were more ballads in his catalogue. I appreciate MJ was mostly an uptempo artist, but he had such a soulful voice which could cut straight through to the core of your being. I sometimes wish he'd done a ballads album or something... Listen to his Motown material more often. Loads of ballads there and he was primarily regarded as a ballad singer in those days. MJ consciously did the reverse later on.
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Post by Cloudbuster on Oct 3, 2023 8:41:55 GMT
^ They can all fuck off.
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Post by MattyJam on Oct 3, 2023 8:47:20 GMT
I thought I would resurrect this thread to say, I think I've had a change of heart on this. During the autumn/winter months I always make a lot of melancholic playlists, lots of ballads etc. After seeing the incredible leaked footage from the Childhood recording sessions, I've been really feeling some of the MJ ballads lately and rediscovered my love of songs like Childhood, Speechless, Much Too Soon, The Lost Children and even Stranger In Moscow has been resonating. I think my main gripe is, I just wish there were more ballads in his catalogue. I appreciate MJ was mostly an uptempo artist, but he had such a soulful voice which could cut straight through to the core of your being. I sometimes wish he'd done a ballads album or something... Listen to his Motown material more often. Loads of ballads there and he was primarily regarded as a ballad singer in those days. MJ consciously did the reverse later on. Oh, I do. Some of my all time favourite MJ moments are from those days. You Are There, One Day In Your Life, Music & Me, Happy.... I adore these songs. I just wish he'd done some more in his adult years. I think that's why I enjoy Invincible more than most, I'm a sucker for a good ballad.
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Post by Russg on Oct 4, 2023 9:53:27 GMT
I sometimes wish he'd done a ballads album or something... He did. It was called Invincible. Songs like Heartbreaker, 2000 Watts, Threatened, Unbreakable and YRMW are as far from ballads as you can get....
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Post by MattyJam on Oct 5, 2023 13:18:30 GMT
I would love to hear the song "Angel" which was a MJ/Babyface track from 1998 I believe. I remember hearing loads about that one around the turn of the century when the recording of Invincible was going on. I wonder if we'll ever hear it??
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