TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,413
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Post by TonyR on Oct 30, 2017 13:54:42 GMT
We aren't blaming it on a 14yo, are we? Or comparing his judgement to adult women's? We aren't saying a 14yo pimped himself out to Spacey, are we? I hope not. I was not accusing a 14yo of pimping himself out, but I was raising what is, imo, a valid question as to what a 14yo is even doing in that situation in the first place. It just seems fucked up to me that a 14yo is at a party with drunken adults... Perhaps if Hollywood wasn't such a cesspit of desperados and wannabes then these messed up situations wouldn't have the opportunity to occur in the first place. Actually that's a fair point. Hollywood tonight etc...
And I know there's a very fine line between questioning this & blaming the victim but it is a fair question.
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Post by MattyJam on Oct 30, 2017 14:05:24 GMT
Whatever his reason was to be at the party I don't think that makes him to be blamed for the incident. He was a minor Spacey was an adult. He invited Repp to the party. So you can similarly ask the question why did Spacey invite a 14yo to a party with drunken adults? I can understand why a 14yo would say yes. Who wasnt flattered by hanging out with the older guys as a teen? That doesn't give them the right to do things like what Spacey is accused of. I never once blamed Repp for the alleged abuse. And of course, minors being at these parties does not give grown-ass men free reign to make sexual advances etc. But I do think often people take a very black and white approach towards victims/perpetrators. The victim has a halo and the perpetrator is the devil. In the real world, people need to start taking more responsibility for the situations they put themselves in (obviously, with a 14yo, it is the parents who should be held accountable). The reason I bought up the Weinstein accusers was to highlight how many victims love to play the martyr, when they are culpable of knowingly putting themselves in harms way and perhaps were even willing to do whatever it took to get ahead, and then happy to express their disgust/moral outrage once they've gotten what they want (film roles, fame etc). To me, that isn't a victim.
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Post by SoCav on Oct 30, 2017 14:19:58 GMT
Isn't it a more honest answer though? Rather than the usual run-past-lawyer response of flat out denial, which he could have done what with there being no witnesses; he's been honest & said, look it may have happened it was 30 years ago & by the sound of it, I'd had a few. It seems more honest, you're not going to recall everyone you tried it on with in the last 30 years.
But the problem is that if this is true, he tried it on with a 14-year old. If it is completely out of character for him to have done so, I don't understand why he didn't deny it, as Respect said. You could say, alternatively, that maybe he thinks it's possible that he picked the boy up, put him on the bed and clumsily fell on top of him in a drunken stupor (as described in the article), but had zero sexual intentions and did not try to seduce him in any way. In other words, maybe Rapp completely misinterpreted him. In that case, I don't understand why he didn't say that (e.g. "Although I do not recall the events he describes, I'm horrified that Anthony interpreted my behavior - regardless of whether what he describes occurred or not - as sexual in any way. I have absolutely no sexual interest in minors and would never express any sexual interest in a minor .") But what he's basically stating is that he doesn't recall, but may have 'tried it on' with a 14-year old boy (and if so, "sorry").
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ChrisC
Wondering Who
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Post by ChrisC on Oct 30, 2017 14:59:20 GMT
Is there bitterness in his comments about Spacey being successful thereafter? Is this a natural reaction for a sexual abuse victim?
I'm not saying it isn't. But it's almost like it makes what happened worse purely because he became very successful in acting.
To be clear, to me, it's equally as bad whether you're a plumber or an Oscar winner.
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Post by dancingmjsdream on Oct 30, 2017 15:30:26 GMT
^ I agree that it shouldn't matter, but it might be more difficult for victims of famous people who had a great career. Their victims have to constantly see how they get successful, are getting praised etc.
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Post by respect77 on Oct 30, 2017 16:12:44 GMT
Is there bitterness in his comments about Spacey being successful thereafter? Is this a natural reaction for a sexual abuse victim? I'm not saying it isn't. But it's almost like it makes what happened worse purely because he became very successful in acting. To be clear, to me, it's equally as bad whether you're a plumber or an Oscar winner. To me it just sounds like that seeing Spacey celebrated and praised made him upset every time because he knew what kind of person he really was. I think to be upset at the abuser and feeling sick of seeing him successful and celebrated is more of a natural reaction for a sexual abuse victim than telling everyone and their mother how that person made you believe in the pure goodness of mankind (yes, Wade, I am looking at you).
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,413
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Post by TonyR on Oct 30, 2017 17:24:35 GMT
Just to add more creedence to the fact that I'm obviously a heartless bastard who supports sexual assault....
When I'm talking these with a pinch of salt, I add extra granules when it's happened so long ago and when someone's career seems to need a boost (and yes Wade, I'm looking at you). Unfortunately this is wrong sometimes as the reason many haven't said anything is fear of not being believed.
Argh....it's all such a paradox & so complicated. On one hand you want to believe all alleged victims and demonise the alleged perpetrator, but that's not the right thing to do. We know that, we know that more than most. So if you take the opposite & take each one on their merits then you come across as a chauvanistic, mysogynist twat.
Also, because of human nature, if you're a fan of the person then you automatically start on the defensive. Then hopefully you start looking at the evidence & properly deciding. But one thing I won't do is take everything a person is supposed to have done in their time on the planet and slaughter them for it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2017 17:34:41 GMT
Just to add more creedence to the fact that I'm obviously a heartless bastard who supports sexual assault.... When I'm talking these with a pinch of salt, I add extra granules when it's happened so long ago and when someone's career seems to need a boost (and yes Wade, I'm looking at you). Unfortunately this is wrong sometimes as the reason many haven't said anything is fear of not being believed. Argh....it's all such a paradox & so complicated. On one hand you want to believe all alleged victims and demonise the alleged perpetrator, but that's not the right thing to do. We know that, we know that more than most. So if you take the opposite & take each one on their merits then you come across as a chauvanistic, mysogynist twat. Also, because of human nature, if you're a fan of the person then you automatically start on the defensive. Then hopefully you start looking at the evidence & properly deciding. But one thing I won't do is take everything a person is supposed to have done in their time on the planet and slaughter them for it. I think youve said what I was going to try to say. But what I will add, that it is unfortunate that these mass revelations of sexual harrassment/assault seem to be diluting the issue in a way. The reaction is more "oh god who next" rather than thinking of the victims now. Its a very hard one to debate about without being picked up the wrong way.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2017 17:35:09 GMT
But Spaceys tweet is almost an admission in itself, which is deplorable.
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Post by respect77 on Oct 30, 2017 18:04:07 GMT
^ I don't think you have to automatically believe all alleged victims, nor taking cases on their own merit is chauvanistic etc. In fact, that's what I do as well. There are two issues in this thread, as I see it. 1. Is this allegation true? 2. If it is true then how much condemnation Kevin Spacey deserves for it? 1. Obviously this is not a court proven allegation, however when someone responds to such an allegation the way Spacey did, it does seem to give it some credence. It is not exactly a flat out denial and that always raises a red flag IMO. But yes, there are still chances the allegation is not true, exaggerated etc. However, that's not what Spacey said when he responded and that's difficult to ignore. As long as he does not say the allegation is not true and is exaggerated who are we to say otherwise? He should be the first one to say it isn't true. So far he did not say that, even though he made a statement. 2. If the allegation is true, then I don't think any of the excuses for Spacey brought up in this thread are good enough. This is not like the Weinstein case where you talk about adults and you can at least try to shift blame on some of the women if you try to defend Weinstein. In the case of a minor that defense simply doesn't work. It doesn't matter why the minor was in his room or how drunk Spacey was - none of that excuses Spacey and makes the minor to be blamed or minimizes his pain. Spacey was the adult and Repp was a minor. Nor do I think it is a good excuse to say "no one was hurt" so it is OK. Physically not, but psychologically? Who are we to tell Repp it's no big deal, he should get over it, shut his mouth and not bring it up 30 years later? Or that he is not a real victim unless he was raped? And let me add, I found Spacey's response cynical too. Using it for coming out and making it all about himself? I am sorry, but that reeks of deflecting. It is also unfair to the gay community and is cynical of him trying to hide behind their back. The LGBT community has long fought harmful stereotypes that homosexuality=pedophilia, perversion, predatory behavior and Spacey is basically reinforcing those stereotypes with his comment. No wonder the LGBT community is fuming: www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-41802060
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Post by jaywonder on Oct 30, 2017 20:38:49 GMT
There's been rumors about Kevin Spacey's interest in young guys and aggressiveness for some time. A lot of comments I read have been "Oh...guess it's officially out there now"
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,413
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Post by TonyR on Oct 30, 2017 22:15:40 GMT
There's been rumors about Kevin Spacey's interest in young guys and aggressiveness for some time. A lot of comments I read have been "Oh...guess it's officially out there now" There's been rumours about Michael Jackson and multiple accusers for over 20 years.....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2017 22:24:05 GMT
There's been rumors about Kevin Spacey's interest in young guys and aggressiveness for some time. A lot of comments I read have been "Oh...guess it's officially out there now" There's been rumours about Michael Jackson and multiple accusers for over 20 years..... WHAT?!
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,413
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Post by TonyR on Oct 30, 2017 22:27:41 GMT
There's been rumours about Michael Jackson and multiple accusers for over 20 years..... WHAT?! My point is that rumours doth not a perpetrator make. ...and I think I've just realised you were joking?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2017 22:29:25 GMT
My point is that rumours doth not a perpetrator make. ...and I think I've just realised you were joking? I was, yeah. Although I would have played along for a bit had you not realised.
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