|
Post by respect77 on Oct 30, 2017 6:23:28 GMT
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Oct 30, 2017 6:29:40 GMT
This is Repp's story.
|
|
TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,413
|
Post by TonyR on Oct 30, 2017 9:08:03 GMT
Again, the headline blows this out of proportion.
It makes out like Spacey did this recently against a 14 year old boy. Not that this makes it right, but it sounds like a drunken fumble at a party. It's not a sexual assault.
And I've always presumed KS was gay?
Like I said in the Weinstein thread, the problem with all these tenuous claims is that in a couple of years time, no-one will bat an eyelid at any claim as people will be sick of them, thus putting real victims at risk.
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Oct 30, 2017 9:44:37 GMT
Did you read the story? Is this guy not a real victim, if the story is true? In no US state it is OK to make sexual advances to a 14yo boy, regardless of circumstances and being drunk is no excuse.
Also I don't feel the title blows anything out of proportion. The age that is relevant from the POV of the story is when the incident happened, not how old the victim is now.
|
|
TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,413
|
Post by TonyR on Oct 30, 2017 9:55:23 GMT
Did you read the story? Is this guy not a real victim, if the story is true? In no US state it is OK to make sexual advances to a 14yo boy, regardless of circumstances and being drunk is no excuse. Also I don't feel the title blows anything out of proportion. The age that is relevant from the POV of the story is when the incident happened, not how old the victim is now. Well, I'm not saying it's right.
But there's a big difference between him doing it recently and something you may have done 30 years ago when he was much younger & not a famous actor obviously abusing his position.
And being drunk and assualting someone isn't an excuse no. But then again, this isn't assualt.
Also, none of this is proven etc...so we don't know what happened. If it did happen we don't know how old Rapp looked at the time, was it obvious he was 14? etc...
I just don't like taken someone's account at face value & vilifying the accused because of it.
|
|
|
Post by SoCav on Oct 30, 2017 10:26:36 GMT
Spacey's response is certainly rather bizarre to me. Why'd you go "I don't remember, but if it was true I'm so sorry - I must have been drunk" if you know you'd never do something like that? And to then use the same statement to officially come out of the closet. Seems like a very miscalculated attempt at damage control.
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Oct 30, 2017 11:00:28 GMT
Spacey's response is certainly rather bizarre to me. Why'd you go "I don't remember, but if it was true I'm so sorry - I must have been drunk" if you know you'd never do something like that? And to then use the same statement to officially come out of the closet. Seems like a very miscalculated attempt at damage control. Just what I thought. It isn't exactly denying it. Why would you say that if it's totally impossible and out of character? The issue isn't that he is gay, but the age of the alleged victim, so why even use this as an opportunity to come out? Like you said, it looks like damage control. And Tony, I'm still not sure if you read the article. The alleged victim says he looked younger than 14, not older. Could it be a lie? Yes, but it's not like Spacey's reaction is a flat out denial. His response is: "I might have done it. In that case, I'm sorry. BTW, I'm gay."
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Oct 30, 2017 11:30:07 GMT
|
|
TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,413
|
Post by TonyR on Oct 30, 2017 12:34:23 GMT
Spacey's response is certainly rather bizarre to me. Why'd you go "I don't remember, but if it was true I'm so sorry - I must have been drunk" if you know you'd never do something like that? And to then use the same statement to officially come out of the closet. Seems like a very miscalculated attempt at damage control. Just what I thought. It isn't exactly denying it. Why would you say that if it's totally impossible and out of character? The issue isn't that he is gay, but the age of the alleged victim, so why even use this as an opportunity to come out? Like you said, it looks like damage control. And Tony, I'm still not sure if you read the article. The alleged victim says he looked younger than 14, not older. Could it be a lie? Yes, but it's not like Spacey's reaction is a flat out denial. His response is: "I might have done it. In that case, I'm sorry. BTW, I'm gay." Isn't it a more honest answer though? Rather than the usual run-past-lawyer response of flat out denial, which he could have done what with there being no witnesses; he's been honest & said, look it may have happened it was 30 years ago & by the sound of it, I'd had a few. It seems more honest, you're not going to recall everyone you tried it on with in the last 30 years.
Any by the way, I know it may come across as I'm defending this behaviour, I'm not. I'm just saying that by vilifying everyone then the true culprits start to be absorbed into a whole set of Hollywood Villians.
Maybe more stories will come out & Spacey is to be revealed as a sexual predator. I don't know. But unless someone has hurt somebody or forced them against their will then I'm not going to hang them for it. I appreciate that at face value, me not disparaging a 24 year old for possibly trying it on with a 14 year old boy sounds wrong, but at the same time we don't even know if it definitely did happen..
I'm not sure I'm coming out of these posts very well, but I'm reminded of how we expected people to react in MJ's case...
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Oct 30, 2017 13:04:41 GMT
MJ's response wasn't "it might have happened if I was drunk/drugged",though. You only say something like that if it's not out of character for you to do such a thing.
I still don't understand how far an assault should go for you to see it as an assault? I get it that sometimes there is a thin line between flirting and harrassment and the former can be exaggerated into the later. Or one can wonder if the other person really consented, was seductive etc. But not in the case of a 14yo. 14 yos cannot give consent under US law, so there is just no place for such an excuse here. The incident sounds pretty scary as described in the article. You say as long as people don't get hurt it's OK? If so, only physical harm counts or also psychological? Because the guy says he was pretty shaken by the incident and it was traumatic for him. And not forcing himself on him? I'm still not sure if you actually read the account of the incident and which part of it sounds innocuous to you. It wouldn't be OK even against an adult, let alone a minor.
|
|
|
Post by MattyJam on Oct 30, 2017 13:13:38 GMT
This is such a huge can of worms and I just think it's time everyone else stopped sticking their oar in to be honest. The only person who has the right to be mad at Kevin Spacey is the alleged victim and the only people who have the right to judge him are a potential jury if it makes it that far. It's starting to feel a bit tiresome watching the media/public continually getting up on their soapbox time and time again, casting aspersions and effectively hanging the supposed perpetrator out to dry the second any allegation surfaces.
It's almost become like a sport, someone being named as a sexual abuser and then everyone lining up to throw stones. Whilst making a sexual advance towards a 14 year old is abhorrent, Tony is right, when a drunken, inappropriate fumble at a party starts being lumped in the same category as a calculated predator who grooms their victim and then commits a heinous act against somebody's will, you are really dangerously blurring the lines and doing no favours to actual victims of serious sexual assault.
You have to question, what is a 14 year old even doing at a party with grown men? A lot of the post-Weinstein accusers have a whiff of something foul about them. I'm not excusing Weinsteins behaviour, the guy sounds like a creep and deserved everything he got. But what did some of these actresses think would happen when they were invited "up to his room" to discuss movie roles? When did women become such wilting flowers? They could've just said "fuck off, I have some self-respect and don't want the role that bad." But it wouldn't surprise me one jot if some of these women got what they wanted out of it and are now crying foul, and I'm sorry, but I'll save my sympathy for the victims who didn't deliberately pimp themselves out to further their career.
|
|
TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,413
|
Post by TonyR on Oct 30, 2017 13:14:42 GMT
MJ's response wasn't "it might have happened if I was drunk/drugged",though. You only say something like that if it's not out of character for you to do such a thing. I still don't understand how far an assault should go for you to see it as an assault? I get it that sometimes there is a thin line between flirting and harrassment and the former can be exaggerated into the later. Or one can wonder if the other person really consented, was seductive etc. But not in the case of a 14yo. 14 yos cannot give consent under US law, so there is just no place for such an excuse here. The incident sounds pretty scary as described in the article. You say as long as people don't get hurt it's OK? If so, only physical harm counts or also psychological? Because the guy says he was pretty shaken by the incident and it was traumatic for him. And not forcing himself on him? I'm still not sure if you actually read the account of the incident and which part of it sounds innocuous to you. It wouldn't be OK even against an adult, let alone a minor. Yes, you're right.
I guess what I'm doing is taking what he says with a pinch if salt. If I take it at face value then yes, it would be assault.
Apologies, I'm hurrying & writing these responses at work so not sure if it come across properly.
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Oct 30, 2017 13:38:02 GMT
You have to question, what is a 14 year old even doing at a party with grown men? A lot of the post-Weinstein accusers have a whiff of something foul about them. I'm not excusing Weinsteins behaviour, the guy sounds like a creep and deserved everything he got. But what did some of these actresses think would happen when they were invited "up to his room" to discuss movie roles? When did women become such wilting flowers? They could've just said "fuck off, I have some self-respect and don't want the role that bad." But it wouldn't surprise me one jot if some of these women got what they wanted out of it and are now crying foul, and I'm sorry, but I'll save my sympathy for the victims who didn't deliberately pimp themselves out to further their career. We aren't blaming it on a 14yo, are we? Or comparing his judgement to adult women's? We aren't saying a 14yo pimped himself out to Spacey, are we? I hope not.
|
|
|
Post by MattyJam on Oct 30, 2017 13:44:31 GMT
You have to question, what is a 14 year old even doing at a party with grown men? A lot of the post-Weinstein accusers have a whiff of something foul about them. I'm not excusing Weinsteins behaviour, the guy sounds like a creep and deserved everything he got. But what did some of these actresses think would happen when they were invited "up to his room" to discuss movie roles? When did women become such wilting flowers? They could've just said "fuck off, I have some self-respect and don't want the role that bad." But it wouldn't surprise me one jot if some of these women got what they wanted out of it and are now crying foul, and I'm sorry, but I'll save my sympathy for the victims who didn't deliberately pimp themselves out to further their career. We aren't blaming it on a 14yo, are we? Or comparing his judgement to adult women's? We aren't saying a 14yo pimped himself out to Spacey, are we? I hope not. I was not accusing a 14yo of pimping himself out, but I was raising what is, imo, a valid question as to what a 14yo is even doing in that situation in the first place. It just seems fucked up to me that a 14yo is at a party with drunken adults... Perhaps if Hollywood wasn't such a cesspit of desperados and wannabes then these messed up situations wouldn't have the opportunity to occur in the first place.
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Oct 30, 2017 13:51:16 GMT
Whatever his reason was to be at the party I don't think that makes him to be blamed for the incident. He was a minor Spacey was an adult. He invited Repp to the party. So you can similarly ask the question why did Spacey invite a 14yo to a party with drunken adults? I can understand why a 14yo would say yes. Who wasnt flattered by hanging out with the older guys as a teen? That doesn't give them the right to do things like what Spacey is accused of.
|
|