rhilo
Wondering Who
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Post by rhilo on Nov 19, 2017 4:05:45 GMT
Got this out of curiosity and it didn’t quite live up to my expectations. It’s certainly not as insightful as B. Valin’s book.
It seems Robledo didn’t have many meaningful conversations with Michael because most of the info he shares concerns his day to day work at Neverland. He started out as Security in 1989 and later became a Ranch Manager and worked there till 1996. The writing and editing is not that great either…
Anyway, the few new bits or highlights for me were (take it with a grain of salt):
Book’s positive and states Michael was a genuinely compassionate and kind man
Michael asked him to stop referring to him as Mr. Jackson and call him, Michael
Norma was in charge of administering the staff at NV, and the staff were apprehensive about her
The staff handbook and Norma have instructed staff not to have direct contact or conversations with Michael, but it bothers Michael when staff members try to avoid contact with him!
There was an elephant called, ‘Nellie,’ an African lion named, ‘Kimba’ and two chimps, ‘Alex’ and ‘Max’.
Michael didn’t appear to be very close to his family and even when family members visited NV they spent the day, but rarely stayed over for the night
But of course, Michael loved his mother and his eyes sparkled whenever he spoke about Katherine. He was also very fond of Janet and referred to her as his 'Little Tinkerbell'
Michael would occasionally ask to go on his favorite rides at the ranch – the Zipper ride, carousal, Eli wheel, sea dragon, the enterprise and of course the most ridden one was the train.
Author finds it amusing that Michael would ask for permission (from him) to go on his own rides!
The train had to be parked by the main house when Michael was at home because he liked to see it when he looked out
Michael loved the song “Owner of a Lonely Heart” by the music group Yes and had it played while he rode the sea dragon ride once
Michael was not the type of person who let people into his life easily. There were many times when Michael would go back to certain conversations, as a way of checking if a person is being consistent and honest
He sensed a change in Michael after the first allegations and Michael wasn’t as talkative as before and had a sadness to him
Some employees of NV were dishonest and stole
There was a Ghost called, ‘George’ at NV who would play pranks on the staff
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ChrisC
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Post by ChrisC on Nov 19, 2017 20:09:16 GMT
Thanks for those little nuggets.
The ghost, the change in Michael and the going back to conversations are very interesting.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2017 23:36:12 GMT
Sounds interesting and readable if positive.
But like many of us, whenever I see a new book about Michael Jackson, I shudder becuase there are so many and the quality of many of them is dreadful. The same thing is happening to Prince and no doubt George Michael will get his share. Funny how all the gay or weirder perceived stars get gossip and badly written hack nonsense for biographies, but people like Davod Bowie and any rock and roller get kind and intelligent biographies (Has anyone written crap about Paul MacCartney?)
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Post by HIStoric on Nov 20, 2017 4:08:44 GMT
Sounds interesting and readable if positive. But like many of us, whenever I see a new book about Michael Jackson, I shudder becuase there are so many and the quality of many of them is dreadful. The same thing is happening to Prince and no doubt George Michael will get his share. Funny how all the gay or weirder perceived stars get gossip and badly written hack nonsense for biographies, but people like Davod Bowie and any rock and roller get kind and intelligent biographies (Has anyone written crap about Paul MacCartney?) Of course, you can find crap, gossip filled books on most stars. For Macca, I was about to get a book out on him from the library, did a quick Google to see how it was and a lot of people were pointing out that the author had an obvious grudge against McCartney and often twisted the truth. Immediately put the book back, I have no interest in reading that crap.
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respect77
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Post by respect77 on Nov 20, 2017 4:48:38 GMT
David Bowie was presenting a bisexual and weird image in the 70s so I don't know if the treatment has to do with that. (Though he kind of withdraw his bisexual image later on and said basically it was an act.) I think it's more that Bowie was never that big star. I mean he definitely is influential but not as popular as MJ, GM, PM etc. So I think tabloids leave him alone. The bigger the star, the bigger the target.
This book on MJ sounds nice but from an employee perspective which is probably quite limited.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2017 5:36:11 GMT
Umm respect77 - ever been to the UK, David Bowie was one of the biggest stars ever there in the 1970s, 80s and into the 90s and millenium. Just because he was not a big star in the USA, does not mean he was not anywhere else. If anything most of the books on DB are excellent and well written.
The funniest joke about MJ books was on Family Guy (Warning the joke is negative and anti Michael), where Brian asks Stewie why his book Wish it, Want it, Get it is not #1 and Stewie "Another Michael Jackson biography is" and Brian says "Another one, I don't want to hear another book about Michael Jackson, unless its by a 10 year old boy's asshole" - Unfortunately the usually rational Macfarlane enterprise is very anti Michael with jokes about him and boys, in Captain EO he grabs a young boy and runs out, another one he starts shooting his crotch and Stewie testifies against him for being rough and aggressive after joking he did not keep the relationship up.
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Post by HIStoric on Nov 20, 2017 6:44:51 GMT
David Bowie was presenting a bisexual and weird image in the 70s so I don't know if the treatment has to do with that. (Though he kind of withdraw his bisexual image later on and said basically it was an act.) I think it's more that Bowie was never that big star. I mean he definitely is influential but not as popular as MJ, GM, PM etc. So I think tabloids leave him alone. The bigger the star, the bigger the target. This book on MJ sounds nice but from an employee perspective which is probably quite limited. I think Bowie later went onto notably say that he was a closet heterosexual I don't think there's any debate that Bowie is as big as MJ or PM, because very very few were, but I'd say he's overtaken GM in popularity now esp. with the current gen. It makes sense given his music was more often on the experimental side than MJ or GM, but he was still a big star regardless, especially in the 1980s when his music was at it's most commercial and most poppy. His last few albums didn't struggle to reach #1 in most big markets either (and of course, while his death aided Blackstar's sales, it was still on course for #1 before he passed). If he wasn't that big a star, I don't think you would've seen that level of outpouring we saw back in January 2016. I think it never plagued Bowie as much also because he outright embraced weirdness in his art. I mean, he crossdressed on the artwork of The Man Who Sold The World, which came out in 1970/1! Nevermind his whole aesthetic, fashion taste, look and music reflected this. I think it's harder for an author to take down an artist for being weird when the man himself embraces weirdness and the general public are accepting of it as a result (I mean, he was controversial in the day for what he did but he was still successful for it). I do think Michael was a bigger target for those sort of books than Bowie though, his controversies stayed longer in the limelight than those of Bowie's.
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respect77
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Post by respect77 on Nov 20, 2017 7:57:20 GMT
I am not saying Bowie wasn't big just not THAT big that would put him on tabloids radar.
Don't you think MJ embraced weirdness too? Ghosts anyone? Leave Me Alone anyone?
I think the difference is rather that with Bowie people eventually knew it was just an act. While with MJ he really wasn't your Normal Valley resident and that's more threatening to people than just playing the weird guy. People are only tolerant to him as long as it's just an act. In reality they really aren't that tolerant to difference.
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TonyR
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Post by TonyR on Nov 20, 2017 9:35:42 GMT
I am not saying Bowie wasn't big just not THAT big that would put him on tabloids radar. Don't you think MJ embraced weirdness too? Ghosts anyone? Leave Me Alone anyone? I think the difference is rather that with Bowie people eventually knew it was just an act. While with MJ he really wasn't your Normal Valley resident and that's more threatening to people than just playing the weird guy. People are only tolerant to him as long as it's just an act. In reality they really aren't that tolerant to difference. Plus there's being different in phases and then constantly, note then when MJ embraced 'normality' and showed his more human side (Oprah, Grammy's 93) his popularity soared.
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Post by HIStoric on Nov 20, 2017 12:05:40 GMT
Don't you think MJ embraced weirdness too? Ghosts anyone? Leave Me Alone anyone? I think the difference is rather that with Bowie people eventually knew it was just an act. While with MJ he really wasn't your Normal Valley resident and that's more threatening to people than just playing the weird guy. People are only tolerant to him as long as it's just an act. In reality they really aren't that tolerant to difference. Mmm not overly? Artistically speaking bits here and there, but not a great deal in the grand scheme of his music career. I dunno if I'd say Bowie's weirdness was completely an 'act' throughout the 1970s, Bowie is a very creative, weird, out-there dude and when combined with with an addiction for plentiful amounts of hardcore drugs in that era, there's going to be genuineness in there somewhere . He did tone it down and begun kicking habits by the time his commercial, poppy 1980s period came around (Although after the 80s, his music returned to it's weirder, out-there self - see 1995's 1. Outside. Quite the opposite of commercial but there's some real gems in there). I think the toning down of the 'weirdness' in both his private and artistic life during his commercial peak definitely helped though and would've helped people associate it more with his art than his personal life? "Oh he seems pretty normal after all". So I think you have a point in that regard Respect. It was an issue for Michael because almost everyone loved his art, most of it wasn't overly out there and was quite easy to get into - it's just that his 'weird side' was more embedded in his controversial private life. Such rumours never really cooled down following the Bad/Dangerous era unfortunately. Plus there's being different in phases and then constantly, note then when MJ embraced 'normality' and showed his more human side (Oprah, Grammy's 93) his popularity soared. That was one of MJ's intentions for the Bashir doco, to show his more human side wasn't it? We all know how that went however :\
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2017 15:36:36 GMT
Or lets just stop beating around the bush, despite his weird personas and changing his look with every album and even wearing drag at times (Ever seen the Boys Keep Swinging video), Bowie had several advantages over Michael to the tabloids which generally left him alone.
1. Despite the bisexuality and dress up - David Bowie was supposedly a married man with a family and exuded normality (Even with the notorious Angela Bowie who was really bisexual and as outrageous as her husband, and there was some tabloid fodder there like them sharing men and women and stories of multi gender orgies". Iman on the other hand was totally DB as 100% hettie (Gay slang for a heterosexual).
2. Bowie's music was generally white rock/pop even though he did flirt with R and B at times, generally the media is easier on white musicians than black ones. There were no barriers to Bowie being a star, other than possible class ones in the 1960s, and tehse fell during the decade.
3. Bowie did not pull weird publicity stunts, live in a bizarre ranch or have gangs of young children (Mostly pre teen boys) following him around. Zowie Bowie never got dangled off a balcony or had to wear a mask in public.
4. As far as I know, Bowie did not carve up his face, or get mountains of elective surgery.
5. Bowie was lucky to be living in the UK, where the tabloids were obsessed with politician and their sex scandals and only came for celbrities in the 1980s, mostly MJ, Diana and Elton John, whose sexuality was always a joke to them. Bowie also generally was very accessible and not living like a recluse.
6. Bowie's music was great to the mainstream and generally shorn of self indulgent experiments and bizarre publicity stunts, there were no 50 foot high statues of the Thin white duke or Ziggy Stardust floating down the Thames. Plus he released an album at elast every 2 years, not every 5.
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Post by dancingmjsdream on Nov 20, 2017 15:44:18 GMT
or have gangs of young children (Mostly pre teen boys) Please don't spread this nonsense Triumph, MJ befriended many girls.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2017 0:28:53 GMT
Really? We don't count members of the Jackson family or sisters of Michael's boy pals. Michael may be innocent, but he always seemed to have special boy pals - Emmanuel Lewis, Jimmy Safechuck, Wade Robson, Gavin Arvision, Jordie Chandler, Omar Bhatti, Corey Haim, Macauley Culkin and the like and he lost interest when they became adults.
I am also not spreading this nonsense, it is fact, Michael wrote notes to Jordie saying that there were no hoes or bitches ever in their club. Sisters and girls were welcome but often slept in guest suites rather than Michael's bedroom complex (Which was the size of a house in itself). I don't care what none of you say,this kid shit is not normal for a grown ass man.
And don't start that "Oh he was robbed of his childhood, he is trying to recapture it" - well if thats the case, his childhood recaptured lasted at least from 1984 to 2005 - that is 21 years of extra childhood.
Plus also Bowie seemed to be above media scrutiny as he was open and accessible and also encourage his fans to express opinions.
Bowie also never started beefs with his record companies and ran up bills for silly things like studio perfume and buying 20 cherubs and not paying for them. People were not suing him left right and centre.
Not to say he was immune, he got hammered over the so called Nazi salute at Victoria station in 1976, and then the stories of him and Mick Jagger having sex and Angie caught them, but things like Bisexuality went down better in the UK, where there is less empahis on hate churches like the USA and people are MUCH MUCH MUCH more open minded than Americans.
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Post by Snow White on Nov 21, 2017 1:19:06 GMT
Corey Haim was not friends with MJ, it was Feldman, if you had read the court documents and testimonies, you'd know he wasn't that much of a friend to Robson. He was closer to Macaulay, the Cascios, Brett Barnes and their families. And even though he befriend the Arvizos, as years went on, he was aprehenssive to spend time with them.
Just because there were more famous male child stars in the 80s and 90s, it doesn't mean he didn't befriended girls, he not only befriended those famous children but their families as well. Even though Kidada, Rashida Jones, Nicole Richie, Paris, Nicky Hilton weren't child stars, Michael spent time with them as children and adults. Also he remained friends with Kelly Parker until his death. There were many girls as well but they weren't in the public eye. Stop putting those stupid innuendos in Michael if you don't fully know.
It's also not true he lost interest in them when they grew up. He remained friends with most of the people you and I mentioned until he died except for the accusers, Feldman and Safechuck.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2017 1:23:43 GMT
And you do? Did you live with Michael Jackson, you know no more than me, and I can believe what I want.
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