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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2018 8:48:03 GMT
Wow, all that text and words, my head spins from looking at it. I will not be reading it.
You seem to have a real problem with Khaft, it is NOT UNIVERSAL throughout Islam and actually carried on by many indigenous religions. Yet no one is criticising the sexism dealt out in some Christian groups (Bretheren, Jehovahs Witness, Mormons and Polygamous Mormons where 89 year old men marry 10 or 15 12 year old girls and they all look after him - Bountiful, British Columbia, Warren Jeffs). I don't like Khaft, any type of forced marriage and any type of other instituionalised gender inequality, but all religions are guilty and I agree Islam is the worst, but at the same time, if a woman chooses to live that way it is her choice - not every woman in Islam is a wannabe liberated feminist, and speaking from a male perspective I really think feminism has gone way too far and some of these angry womyn need to calm the fuck down.
For the 20th time and hopefully this will sink in through your PIE EYED way of thinking, I do not like Islam, I hate it, but I also hate all other dogmatic religion and merely argue because Islam is no better or worse than the rest, but since the 9/11 farrago it has been the whipping boy for all religions.
When people like the Las Vegas Shooter and all these other white American shooters go on the rampage and Trumpy mentions "Our thoughts and prayers are with you" do we all start bashing Christians over it like we do Islam over terrorism and 9/11 along with stories on honour killings. What about female kids marrying dirty old men with multiple wives in fundamentalist and cult Christianity?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2018 8:58:25 GMT
Finally I want to say I don't like Islam at all, Khaft is horrible, Burqas are horrible, Terrorism is horrible and so is arranged and kiddie marriage. However it exists and there is little any of us can do about it. I also have Islamic friends and consider them nice people and would like to know they feel comfortable around me, as they tell me many times of being harassed by so called Christians and Atheists harassing them over being followers of Allah, they get told to go home and blow things up. One girl Stefammee (Who wears a head scarf, but not a Burqa) has a thick skin to deal with the daily abuse.
Do you guys support this open harassing of people for wearing "Muslim" garb or picking on someone to their face, over their religion.
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Post by respect77 on Oct 17, 2018 15:34:15 GMT
Wow, all that text and words, my head spins from looking at it. I will not be reading it. If you are not willing to read arguments of your discussion partner then why are you even coming into a discussion in the first place? Just to hear yourself talk? To plug your ears and say "la-la-la, I won't read it" is just extremely immature. Especially when you call others racists and bigots without any basis. If you cannot stand disagreement, then don't get involved in discussions and debates. What is "khaft"? You mean female genital mutilation? If so, no one said it was universal within Islam, in fact I didn't even say it was an inherently Islamic practice. It's more a tradition within some cultures. I simply used it as an example of the harmfulness of being reluctant of criticizing certain ideologies, practices just because its followers are mostly non-whites. By refusing to criticize these ideologies Westerners don't do any favour to the people oppressed by these ideologies. It's actually the opposite: in defense of Islam many Western liberals today are siding with the oppressors and letting down the people who are oppressed by these ideologies (most of them non-white too!) It's unfortunate that you are not willing to read, because the article I posted addresses this issue in Western liberalism very well. First of all, your argument is a fallacy called "whataboutism". Instead of addressing issues within Islam you try to deflect by pointing at issues within other religions. Not only that, but you are also using straw man arguments, ie. you are attacking positions that were not represented by your discussion partner. On quite the contrary, when we discuss Christianity, I criticize it just as vehemently as I do Islam. So you won't see me defending forced marriages in Christianity or fundamentalist Christians or anything like that. You can check out my posting history here or on MJJC. I do not have any qualms criticizing Christianity. I don't have double standards with religions. You are the one having it, because you are the one wanting Islam to be above criticism more than Christianity. No, it hasn't. Christianity is being criticized a lot too. The Catholic sex abuse scandals have been all over the news recently. Or liberals of the West have no qualms criticizing the negative effetcs of American fundamentalist presence in Africa. You have highly successful documentaries such as "Jesus Camp" being praised all over in the Western media etc. It's a lie that Christianity isn't called out for abhorent practices. Only that criticism comes naturally to people in the West. You won't see violent mass protests for someone drawing a cartoon about Jesus or criticizing Christianity. Try that with Muhammad and Islam, though. People get credible death threats when they do that. Ayaan Hirsi Ali made a short film with Theo Van Gogh about women's situation in Islam. Theo Van Gogh was murdered for it by an Islamist and Ayaan's life is under constant threat ever since. All that for this film: The criticism of Christianity is a part of everyday Western life, that's why you don't notice it, but it is everywhere. In song lyrics, in literature, in the media, in documentaries. Only no one will get as hysterical about it, unlike when Islam is criticized, where even people calling themselves liberal get hysterical if it is criticized. If the Las Vegas shooter committed that act in the name of Christianity then sure, call it Christian terrorism. But as far as I know it was never found out what his actual motives were. Islamic terrorism isn't called Islamic terrorism just because of the religion of its perpetrators. That alone won't make a violent act Islamic terrorism if the motive behind the act wasn't religion. Islamic terrorism is called Islamic because it is committed with religious motives. No, I don't support the harrassment of Muslim people and I don't think anyone here does. You conflate anti Muslim bigotry with the criticism of Islam. Maybe you actually SHOULD read before you write, to understand the difference, because apparently you do not.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2018 16:58:26 GMT
No I have just heard you bash Islam and solely Islam only as you are Islamophobic and would prefer it if you stopped interacting with me, because you are clearly pig headed, stubborn andabout as flexible as a rock.
You are racist and you are a bigot - warm to it.
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Post by Snow White on Oct 17, 2018 17:20:11 GMT
In these 4 years that idiotic word, islamophobia was made up, Islam and Muslim apologists aren't willing to learn anything or hear the other side of the discussion. What a shame, it's like going in circles then.
I haven't read anyone here singling out, being bigoted towards Arabs or other citizens from predominantly Muslim populations for being Muslims but criticizing the detrimental teachings and people's actions made in the name of Islam. If you're unwilling to see we criticize IDEAS,I don't know what else to tell you. You seen the kind of person who doesn't value logic or evidence no matter how compelling it is.
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Post by SoCav on Oct 17, 2018 19:52:04 GMT
No I have just heard you bash Islam and solely Islam only as you are Islamophobic and would prefer it if you stopped interacting with me, because you are clearly pig headed, stubborn andabout as flexible as a rock. You are racist and you are a bigot - warm to it.
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Post by respect77 on Oct 18, 2018 3:30:11 GMT
No I have just heard you bash Islam and solely Islam only as you are Islamophobic and would prefer it if you stopped interacting with me, because you are clearly pig headed, stubborn andabout as flexible as a rock. You are racist and you are a bigot - warm to it. That's because of your unwillingness to read before you open your mouth. Here are just some examples when I criticized other religions: mymjjforum.boards.net/thread/967/systemic-cover-pedophilia-catholic-churchmymjjforum.boards.net/thread/24/atheist-threadmymjjforum.boards.net/thread/398/leah-remini-investigate-cult-religionsmymjjforum.boards.net/thread/295/church-scientologyAnd that's just from the first page of this Religion&Politics section of the forum. And yes, you sound an awful lot like Triumph76 with the name-calling and immaturity of how you discuss with people and your inability to understand nuances and contexts. Also your conflicted state of mind about racial issues (to be mild). Here you call people racists and bigots for criticizing Islam - an ideology -, but in another thread you said that white people were not allowed to use the N-word to black people was racism towards white people... Triumph's borderline racism was also mainly targeted at black people. Add to that that you appeared right after Triumph was banned and from New Zealand too. If you are not him, you must be his long lost cousin.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2018 8:56:10 GMT
Talk to the hand, because my head ain't listening. I am not entering into debate with you and really do not wish to follow you. I noticed it is easy to associate me with Triumph as he was a Kiwi and got sick of you too.
But I am not him and he is not me.
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Post by Liberian Girl on Oct 18, 2018 9:20:08 GMT
Utterly ridiculous to say anyone who criticises Islam is racist or a bigot.
First of all, Islam is not a race, it is a religion. I couldn't care less if Muslim were black, Asian or white...It's the teachings and problems that come along with that religion that are the problem, not skin colour
If you want to know why many people are against Islam, look at countries were it is the predominant religion. Saudi, for example. Public stonings, homophobia, child marriage, women having to cover up, sharia law. So I'm sorry if it's inconvenient to people that many followers of Islam are not white, but I am not racist. I just hate seeing awful things done in the name of religion
Of course other religions have major problems too. The difference? When the Christian or Catholic church commits crime or abuses, everyone is allowed to comment/investigate/criticise. But when anyone involved in Islam does bad things, we can't comment because we'd be "racist" or "Islamaphobic"?? That's stupid and it makes those people guilty of condoning crimes just because they're frightened to be seen as racist. It's media brainwashing to say you can't openly dislike or criticise a religion if its followers happen to be a different colour.
I'll repeat, I couldn't care less if Muslims are fat, thin, tall, short, white or black. The religion is the problem not the colour of its followers.
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Post by respect77 on Oct 18, 2018 9:41:11 GMT
That's stupid and it makes those people guilty of condoning crimes just because they're frightened to be seen as racist. It's media brainwashing to say you can't openly dislike or criticise a religion if its followers happen to be a different colour. Exactly.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2018 2:51:53 GMT
Please stop insulting my religion. Allah is the most merciful and benevolent.
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Post by Liberian Girl on Oct 20, 2018 8:33:30 GMT
Please stop insulting my religion. Allah is the most merciful and benevolent. Merciful? Islam has the least amount of mercy than any faith system. Followers are literally taught to insult/not communicate and never befriend any non Muslim. Is that mercy?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2018 9:22:23 GMT
Well I must have been asleep when they said that. I am more a lapsed Muslim than a faithful one and have no desire or hatred against anyone not Muslim. Believing in Allah as far as it goes. I have not been to a mosque since my teens and as for Ramadan. no thanks. I also refuse to eat Halal and have a serious problem with the sexism of Islam.
Being gay and living with a Christian, also ensures I will never be called up for Isis or Al Qaeda, however being a victim of theirs is likely. I will also never do the Haj, while the current state of affairs run in Saudi Arabia. To me these people are not Muslims, they have lost the respect. The Quran tells you to respect people of the book , Christians and Jews, not kill or berate them. Just like the Bible, people will misinterpret the Quran and adjust to serve their own means.
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Post by respect77 on Oct 20, 2018 9:42:48 GMT
I am a Catholic but only baptised.
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Post by Liberian Girl on Oct 20, 2018 10:09:18 GMT
Thanks respect77 Funny enough I said this to @mattyjam just this morning. Whoever the "real" Triumph is, he's very indecisive.
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