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Post by suzie on Jan 12, 2020 13:01:23 GMT
I get so depressed reading stuff like this. When's it all going to end? I got into a debate about this with my brothers friend yesterday as it came up on the news. My family know better than to bring this up with me, but my brothers friend was convinced of MJs guilt and very opinionated and loud. I think I defended MJ well, but it is hard when you're fighting the tide of mass media manipulation. Everytime I'd say about the lies Wade/James have been caught out in, he'd return to more broad criticisms which, tbh, I struggled to answer. Stuff like "why was he taking boys on tour with him and letting them stay in his hotel room?". It just felt so trite replying with "because he didn't have a childhood" and I genuinely didn't know what to say, because it is hard to defend stuff like that. He didn’t have a childhood isn’t a good defense. It would be better to say he wasn’t just inviting boys anywhere. Their entire families were there and if their parents felt something was wrong they had the opportunity to step in and stop it. MJ was also a very busy man who worked a lot with a large entourage. If something was fishy happened, one of the many bodyguards and assistants would back up their claims but they don’t. These are also men who defended him all throughout his life. You just have to put things back into perspective for people because they don’t realize that the parents were on all those trips as well as other adults.
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Post by elusivemoonwalker on Jan 14, 2020 16:12:51 GMT
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Yaza
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Post by Yaza on Jan 18, 2020 21:40:57 GMT
I get so depressed reading stuff like this. When's it all going to end? I got into a debate about this with my brothers friend yesterday as it came up on the news. My family know better than to bring this up with me, but my brothers friend was convinced of MJs guilt and very opinionated and loud. I think I defended MJ well, but it is hard when you're fighting the tide of mass media manipulation. Everytime I'd say about the lies Wade/James have been caught out in, he'd return to more broad criticisms which, tbh, I struggled to answer. Stuff like "why was he taking boys on tour with him and letting them stay in his hotel room?". It just felt so trite replying with "because he didn't have a childhood" and I genuinely didn't know what to say, because it is hard to defend stuff like that. He didn’t have a childhood isn’t a good defense. It would be better to say he wasn’t just inviting boys anywhere. Their entire families were there and if their parents felt something was wrong they had the opportunity to step in and stop it. MJ was also a very busy man who worked a lot with a large entourage. If something was fishy happened, one of the many bodyguards and assistants would back up their claims but they don’t. These are also men who defended him all throughout his life. You just have to put things back into perspective for people because they don’t realize that the parents were on all those trips as well as other adults. I agree, fans should know by now that the 'no childhood' approach isn't going to work. Main thing to remember is that these friendships have all been exaggerated, the 'hundreds of nights' sleepovers isn't grounded in reality whatsoever. Michael was an extremely busy man, especially in the time frame of Wade, James and Jordan (Bad Tour - Dangerous era) I do however obviously feel that his lack of a traditional childhood played a role in these sleepovers. For example, rather than arguing he was trying to capture what he missed out on, I try to highlight the fact that Michael grew up traveling from hotel room to hotel room throughout his childhood, sharing rooms with unrelated adults and older relatives. This obviously blurred the lines of normal boundaries that exist and set the stage for what happened with the sleepovers later on
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Post by ShadowDeeps on Jan 19, 2020 2:28:48 GMT
I agree, fans should know by now that the 'no childhood' approach isn't going to work. Main thing to remember is that these friendships have all been exaggerated, the 'hundreds of nights' sleepovers isn't grounded in reality whatsoever. Michael was an extremely busy man, especially in the time frame of Wade, James and Jordan (Bad Tour - Dangerous era) Wade highly exaggerates the amount of time he spent with MJ. He holds fast to the claim that MJ abused him hundreds of times at the very least (and IIRC James would later follow suit because monkey see, monkey do with James and Wade). He also claims MJ abused him from the age of seven to fourteen. This might be slightly difficult when his own mother stated under no uncertain terms (in previous interviews) they didn’t even move to the states until Wade was nine years old. It leaves very little time for anything to have “happened”. Even Dan Reed notes in interviews the most intense period of the “abuse” was from the age of seven to nine. Not quite possible if the Robsons barely spent any time with MJ in the nineties. And even then, Joy would state under oath that of the fourteen years the Robsons were present at Neverland, Michael was there... guess how many times... wait for it... a grand total of four. Joy would also state under oath that Wade was never alone with Michael (at Neverland) before 1993 and they all went on the trip to the Grand Canyon in 1990 (and Wade confirmed this under oath as well, in 2005, that the one time he was alone with Michael at Neverland was in 1993, and Macaulay Culkin was there too, who swears to this day that Michael never abused him... hmm...). All stated under oath, under penalty of perjury, in 1993, 2005, and 2016. In 2016, long after MJ passed, long after Wade came out and accused MJ. Of course no one would know if they hadn’t read the court transcripts or listened to previous interviews conducted with Joy Robson, and Dan probably counts on such for LN to deceive viewers. Wade never toured with MJ either, nor did he travel the world with him. Joy would even stress one notable point in the aforementioned interview from 2011: Michael lived in a bubble, in his own world. In other words, he didn’t take much interest (if any) in the Robson family and most of the work and responsibility to “get things going” or “make things happen” was up to Joy. So much for “grooming” and “obsession”. Wade alleges Michael abused him for many weeks in the Spring of 1990. But it’s been verified Michael was not with Wade during that time period, he was overseas, going about his own business. MJ would set Wade up with two of his nieces, one of whom was Brandi Jackson. Why do this if you’re “teaching” your “victims” to “despise women” ? Brandi says she dated Wade for many years and spent copious amounts of time with him and there are eye witness statements (which weren’t sold to the tabloids for tens of thousands of dollars or more) to corroborate their relationship. And why in tarnation would Michael agree to put someone he abused for seven years on the witness stand, as the first defense witness, in a criminal trial upon which his life depends? Wade says he didn’t want to testify and was subpoena’d against his will but Scott Ross tells a very different story, and as do pictures of Wade taken during the time frame (IE, right after he testified - he looked like a kid in a candy store, at last compared to Chris Tucker, Brett Barnes, and Macaulay Culkin, all of whom had far more earnest expressions). Why would Wade deem the land he was raped on sacred and take no less than 249 photos and shoot 8 hours of footage there? Why would he ask to be wedded there? Why can’t Wade accurately describe what Michael’s hair really felt like (certainly not a brillo pad... that’s a lesser issue but one I found highly amusing, to say the least)? Why did Wade initially try to file his lawsuit under seal but then later on go on about speaking the “truth” as loud as he had to “live the lie” ? Why did Wade claim he never discussed money with his main e-mail contact (Alan Nevins) regarding his book, but Alan Nevins state Wade demanded a large sum of money after the estate spoke to Alan? Why did Wade only change his story from “he never abused me, he was one of the examples of the pure goodness of human kind and I will love and miss him forever” to “he abused me every time we were together” when he was declined the job of choreographing the MJ one Cirque Du Soleil show he desired so fervently (as evidenced by e-mails to the estate)? Why did a hefty lawsuit follow that statement, suing the estate and MJ’s companies for hundreds of millions of dollars? Why did all this only start happening when Wade’s career started to crumble and his financial straits were rearing their ugly head? Why did he hide evidence (E.G, e-mails) from the court that he knew of the existence of MJ’s estate before 2013? Why did Wade (or his lawyers) claim in his lawsuit he can no longer dance or partake in similar activities he enjoyed due to being “triggered”, but was contrarily seen gleefully performing all such activities during the years in which he was supposedly trying to “heal” (2012-2016) ? Why did Wade sell his actual MJ memorabilia to Julien’s Auctions years before the staged “burning” scene at LN’s credits ? And the list goes on. Safechuck spent more time with MJ than Wade (although not nearly as much time as Brett Barnes, Macaulay Culkin, Emmanuel Lewis, Omer Bhatti, and the Cascios did, and none of them claim the slightest impropriety to this day) but he only changed his story from claiming he was never abused under oath (albeit as a teenager) to child sexual abuse once his family was sued for fairly close to a million dollars in 2013 (and in 2014 the amount they were sued for increased by a substantial amount). Then he approaches Wade’s lawyers and so begins his lawsuit which he would file a year later (hence why their stories “align” as evidenced by Wade’s 2016 deposition). James claimed he was asked to testify as well, but Scott Ross expressly said that’s an unequivocal lie as it was determined by Judge Melville months prior to the trial he (James) wasn’t an issue. Jame’s lawsuit not only runs counter to what’s described in LN but also describes a different abuser in entirety. James claims MJ advised him against getting his education but if so why did he pay for his private acting sessions and gift him books? Why do other families who knew MJ insist otherwise, that MJ would pay for their education? Why does the graphic abuse James recounts sound so similar to the stories VG would pen for his book (for which MJ won a $2.7 million defamation lawsuit)? Why did a former Neverland employee take to Twitter last year to state that when the Safechucks were on the property (Neverland), MJ was never there? Why does James accuse MJ of abusing him in a nonexistent train station (by the time it did exist, James was taller than MJ, he was well into his teens, MJ wasn’t even living at Neverland, he was married to LMP, and he was living in New York, recording HIStory after the Northridge earthquake, IIRC)? And so forth. FWIW, the “boys” MJ was “taking on tour” with him and “letting them stay in his hotel room” have not accused him of any wrongdoing. Brett Barnes, for an example, is one of his most vigorous defenders (as stated before).
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Post by respect77 on Feb 1, 2020 6:07:27 GMT
A great thread. So Orietta Murdock's deposition basically ended up dispelling some old myths and ended up being favorable for MJ.
Finaldi tried to build the case against the companies a lot on that supposed quote (even if it was vague, anyway) that Norma allegedly said to Orietta ("don't leave your kid alone with MJ"). The suggestion was that was because Norma knew MJ molested kids. And there was also this suggestion that it was an "open secret" within the companies, with Orietta and other employees knowing about it. So now, that's pretty much refuted here by Orietta herself.
Also it sheds a light on how the investigation against MJ was never independent and fair. The police decided from the get go that MJ was guilty and would not allow any exculpatory evidence get in the way, instead they actively lied and even twisted what witnesses had said.
I just wish they would have asked her about her connection with Gutierrez. Maybe she cold have shed a light on how her name got on that description in VG's book.
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Post by respect77 on Mar 24, 2020 15:45:09 GMT
In case you were wondering:
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Post by Russg on Mar 27, 2020 20:47:40 GMT
With any luck Wade and James will catch coronavirus bad and mankind will be spared these two oxygen theives.
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Post by butterflies on Mar 27, 2020 21:05:36 GMT
As much as I dislike them, I wouldn’t wish coronavirus on anyone
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Post by Russg on Mar 27, 2020 23:29:56 GMT
^^ I would.
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Post by elusivemoonwalker on Mar 28, 2020 9:57:09 GMT
I would if they were old but being who they are it prob wouldnt make much difference anyway😕
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Post by respect77 on Apr 3, 2020 4:09:45 GMT
Updates in this thread
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Post by HIStoric on Apr 3, 2020 5:27:39 GMT
Sounds to me like he could be recording for a followup, to document their attempt to get """"justice"""" (🙄).
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Post by respect77 on Apr 3, 2020 6:24:58 GMT
The Estate/Taj neex to bring their own cameras then because you know Reed's not going to be honest about whatever is going on in court.
Things like a status conference is not much of an interest to the public, but clearly they want this to be a media circus. I expect now Wade and James show up at every court appointment (even technical ones that don't require their presence and that they never went to before) with Reed and Anthony Edwards in tow, them calling TMZ to report etc.
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Post by respect77 on Apr 3, 2020 6:26:19 GMT
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Post by MattyJam on Apr 3, 2020 7:38:03 GMT
Sounds to me like he could be recording for a followup, to document their attempt to get """"justice"""" (🙄). How nauseating.
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